Tax Avoidance = Immoral

[CaptainSlow]

Bing o said:

strudel said:

Apparently

Then if you feel like getting a little angry at some socialists, read Pesto's Blog

In my opinion, what a load of bks.

(and I don't think some people grasp the difference between avoidance and evasion).

In my opinion, who cares what this man thinks?

Especially as he himself has been accused of avoiding CGT on a second home.

[RYH64E]

fbrs said:

ninja-lewis said:

Roughly we have three definitions of fairness: leftie-types define it as progressive - pay more because you can afford to; a flat definition, which I suspect is more inline with PH thinking - everyone pays x% of their income; and lastly a poll-tax style everyone pays £x (almost) regardless of income.

i'd agree with all your points. i think its clear as you earn 25k, 50k, 75k, 100k... you pay progressively higher % tax. (self employed 'scams' aside). its really only when you start earning 250k+ there are any 'loopholes', but i know of so many people who have been badly burned trying these imo they should, in themselves, be considered highly speculative and not something i would ever chance (m'lud). its only when you escape PAYE, ie when you're into millions that you can start to get paid in dividends and carried interest and st like that. for 99%+ of people the more you earn the higher % you pay.

You don't have to be earning millions to escape paye and pay yourself in dividends, but once the lower thresholds are exceeded dividends are taxed at fairly high rates anyway, and you will already have paid corporation tax before any dividends are issued.

[BOR]

I guess I do ok, and if I pay a lot of tax to maintain a society that allows me to earn that much, then on balance, it's a benefit to me.

[sidicks]

Fair enough - however, generally I see no reason why, once you get to the point where for every extra pound you earn the government takes more than half, you shouldn't seek to plan your tax affairs to legally reduce the amount of tax you pay.

At that point IMO you've well and truly paid more than you 'fair shre', whatever that means....

Sidicks

[ewenm]

The government should simplify the tax system. That would have multiple benefits:

• Fewer "loopholes"
• Cheaper to administer
• If it is perceived as "fairer" then more people might not be motivated to invest time and money in avoiding it.

[anonymous-user]

ewenm said:

• Fewer "loopholes"

what are these loopholes you're talking about?

[robsti]

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

[ewenm]

fbrs said:

ewenm said:

• Fewer "loopholes"

what are these loopholes you're talking about?

Maybe a bad word to use - fewer "uncertainties" might be better. Why should there be any room for debate about how much tax an individual and a company owe?

IR35 is a classic example - no hard and fast rules, it depends on the interpretation by HMRC as to whether people fall inside or outside it. Ridiculous state of affairs for a modern tax system.

[Ribol]

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

[robsti]

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

[robsti]

fbrs said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

ive got no idea what you're talking about. when my employer underpaid my tax by 18k they didnt go after the company!

I was talking about a no tax regime.
In this case you were just over paid by 18k by your employer!

[anonymous-user]

robsti said:

fbrs said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

ive got no idea what you're talking about. when my employer underpaid my tax by 18k they didnt go after the company!

I was talking about a no tax regime.
In this case you were just over paid by 18k by your employer!

oh dear and i deleted my post cos i thought you must be joking... im still not sure if you're serious or not so i'll just say that the tax man was not of the opinion that i'd been overpaid but that I hadn't paid enough tax. i'll leave it at that.

Edited by fbrs on Monday 20th September 22:16

[robsti]

fbrs said:

robsti said:

fbrs said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

ive got no idea what you're talking about. when my employer underpaid my tax by 18k they didnt go after the company!

I was talking about a no tax regime.
In this case you were just over paid by 18k by your employer!

oh dear and i deleted my post cos i thought you must be joking... im still not sure if you're serious or not so i'll just say that the tax man was not of the opinion that i'd been overpaid but that I hadn't paid enough tax. i'll leave it at that.

Edited by fbrs on Monday 20th September 22:16

Same difference!

[Ribol]

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

You mean if the tax system was nothing like it actually is, not entirely sure what that has to do with anything being discussed here.

[robsti]

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

You mean if the tax system was nothing like it actually is, not entirely sure what that has to do with anything being discussed here.

Sorry I thought the post was about tax avoidance and someone posted that people that are on paye had no choice but to pay tax but they are not paying it the employer is by paying them the tax % over what they would be paid if there was no tax regime!

[Ozzie Osmond]

Eric Mc said:

The government actually creates secific tax avoidance measures to encourage certain topes of behaviour - such as saving or paying into a pension.

After all, who's going to buy a Nissan Leaf and potter about in central London free from congestion charge unless the Treasury halfwits (and Boris) dig deep to promote the ghasly heap of junk?

Tax avoidance - buying a Nissan Leaf

Tax evasion - walking. It's plain lefty antisocial behaviour to pay no travel taxes at all. Shouldn't be allowed.

[Ribol]

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

You mean if the tax system was nothing like it actually is, not entirely sure what that has to do with anything being discussed here.

Sorry I thought the post was about tax avoidance and someone posted that people that are on paye had no choice but to pay tax but they are not paying it the employer is by paying them the tax % over what they would be paid if there was no tax regime!

Sounds like you are digging a bigger hole to me

[DonkeyApple]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Eric Mc said:

The government actually creates secific tax avoidance measures to encourage certain topes of behaviour - such as saving or paying into a pension.

After all, who's going to buy a Nissan Leaf and potter about in central London free from congestion charge unless the Treasury halfwits (and Boris) dig deep to promote the ghasly heap of junk?

Tax avoidance - buying a Nissan Leaf

Tax evasion - walking. It's plain lefty antisocial behaviour to pay no travel taxes at all. Shouldn't be allowed.

This is very interesting. Non smokers and people who do not buy petrol are tax evaders?

Basically, the worst tax evaders are the Guardianista, strangely the people who despise tax evaders the most.

Being a mush brained socialist buffoon is just too much hard work

[robsti]

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

robsti said:

Ribol said:

If I thought for one second that the money paid in taxes was being used wisely then I would be more than happy to pay my fair share and probably a bit more.

However, whilst whichever moron who is currently at the helm continues to allow money to be wasted (pick your own example, plenty to choose from) I will do whatever I can to pay as little as possible.

I think the only people who are "happy" to pay taxes are those on PAYE and don't have any choice.

People on paye dont pay tax their employer does!

Not strictly true, the employer pays the employer's contribution and pays the employee's part on their behalf by deducting it from their wages.

Sorry I did not explain myself.
Only the self-employed pay tax because if there was no tax the employed would be paid the tax percentage less.
ie if you were being paid 10 pound per hour and there was no tax due then your employer would pay you 7.90 and you would be no worse off!

You mean if the tax system was nothing like it actually is, not entirely sure what that has to do with anything being discussed here.

Sorry I thought the post was about tax avoidance and someone posted that people that are on paye had no choice but to pay tax but they are not paying it the employer is by paying them the tax % over what they would be paid if there was no tax regime!

Sounds like you are digging a bigger hole to me

Depends where the hole is dug if you pay tax or not UAE or Monaco both of which are TAX FREE!

[cymtriks]

BOR said:

I don't think you grasp the difference between paying what you owe, and exploiting loopholes that shouldn't exist, but are impossible to eradicate.

Pay your share.

The loop holes are easy to eradiacate, they only exist because we have an insanely complex tax system full of allowances, different rates, exceptions, penalties,... it goes on and on.

One personal allowance transferable between married couples. One rate of tax on all income.
Similar system for companies.

No more loopholes there.