Tax Avoidance = Immoral

[Welshbeef]

Murph7355 said:

It's no different to any other party, except the topic on which he's decided to grandstand.

I can't imagine large corps are illegally withholding this info. The "problem" is how companies arrive at such figures (legally).

We need to stop pandering to those who wouldn't be happy even even if Google et al donated ALL their money to the HMRC (there'd still be something to bh about).

Lower headline tax rates and encourage large firms to channel their bulk through here. Corp taxes aren't really a tax on a company anyway, but its customers.

Corp tax is a race to the bottom and its been predicted that within 50 years it will be zero globally. So touch it while it hit as snoop Dog would say.

[barryrs]

crankedup said:

Anyone would think an election is upon us, blatant electioneering on a grandiose scale is all this amounts to.

Would be saying that if the announcement was by a Mr Balls?

Damed if you do, damed if you don't.

[Welshbeef]

barryrs said:

crankedup said:

Anyone would think an election is upon us, blatant electioneering on a grandiose scale is all this amounts to.

Would be saying that if the announcement was by a Mr Balls?

Damed if you do, damed if you don't.

Exactly

Labour did it with the 50% take rate for 10 days - they had given millionaires a tax cut for 12 years 355 days of 10%. The Torys taxed millionaires 10% higher for 3 years and ten reduced it by 5% resulting in a net higher tax take. Oddly Labour seem fixated with the fact its a tax break for millionaires yet they are ongoing taxing the richest 5% than labour ever did...




Also I can see Osbourne upping min wage to £7/hr from Oct this year that will screw Labour properly tax free up to £11k min wage up to £7/hr and really sorting out foreign companies. Big problem for labour is if they are planning on spending the tax that these ideas on different things so as it will already be fully spent unless they reduce the tax free allowance or decrease min wage they will have to look into other ideas to up pay for their spend areas


Very difficult for then.

[Murph7355]

Welshbeef said:

Corp tax is a race to the bottom...

I'd call it a race to reality.

If something is that easy to avoid, it's got to be poorly defined and/or poorly principled in the first place.

[anonymous-user]

As the only tax that almost everyone thinks there should be more of corporation tax is going nowhere. Of course the real problem is that everyone who thinks that is a fvcing idiot who doesn't realise who ultimately pays CT.

[xjsdriver]

crankedup said:

Power and influence = money=power and money. Not only Politico's but business as well. This is something that I was debating a few weeks back. So many PH'ers disagreed with this philosophy that I was truly quite astounded. I look forward to these posters to come back again for a second debate.

Come on mate, you've been on here long enough to know that you can't expect a reasoned sensible discussion with many of the disciples on here - they tend to get a bit shouty if you don't personally align with them politically.

[turbobloke]

xjsdriver said:

crankedup said:

Power and influence = money=power and money. Not only Politico's but business as well. This is something that I was debating a few weeks back. So many PH'ers disagreed with this philosophy that I was truly quite astounded. I look forward to these posters to come back again for a second debate.

Come on mate, you've been on here long enough to know that you can't expect a reasoned sensible discussion with many of the disciples on here - they tend to get a bit shouty if you don't personally align with them politically.

The above allegation doesn't match reality as differences in politics are more often argued on a subject by subject basis. Weak arguments get what they deserve without any shouting.

fblm said:

who ultimately pays CT

If you explained (again) it wouldn't make any difference because it's just not fair.

[AW111]

xjsdriver said:

crankedup said:

Power and influence = money=power and money. Not only Politico's but business as well. This is something that I was debating a few weeks back. So many PH'ers disagreed with this philosophy that I was truly quite astounded. I look forward to these posters to come back again for a second debate.

Come on mate, you've been on here long enough to know that you can't expect a reasoned sensible discussion with many of the disciples on here - they tend to get a bit shouty if you don't personally align with them politically.

What : angry middle-aged men on NP&E? Surely you jest!

Next you will be claiming that the country is not going to hell in a handbasket, that some left-wingers may have principles, and maybe even denying the golden age that once was.

Edited by AW111 on Monday 9th March 07:46

[turbobloke]

AW111 said:

left-wingers...principles

Largely a non sequitur - see under Tony Benn, the last ditch hope of principled leftism died with him and his inheritance tax avoidance planning...Which of course is lawful and fine as long as you're not a 'principled leftie' arguing consistently in your political lifetime against what you then go and do. Also see under that selfless paragon of virtue embodied by the Labour sourced ex-Mr Speaker, Gorbals Mick, who "didn't come into politics not to take what's owed to me". Admittedly PH lefties are totally principled, for example they'd never work for companies that use tax avoidance measures.

[AW111]

This is why I generally avoid NP&E - the blanket hatred / dimissal of anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.
If you cannot accept that anyone you disagree with may have brains or principles, there is no point in attempting a debate.
Enjoy life in your little bunker .

[turbobloke]

AW111 said:

This is why I generally avoid NP&E - the blanket hatred / dimissal of anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.
If you cannot accept that anyone you disagree with may have brains or principles, there is no point in attempting a debate.
Enjoy life in your little bunker .

What hatred would that be, in conparison to you, a PHer, describing PHers as angry middle-aged men, that wouldn't be hypocritical at all. Also there was no suggestion that everyone who disagrees (about what?) has no principles. Those who shout the loudest from the left-field usually end up with their trousers down, as I illustrated by a couple of examples. There was no anger, no hatred, just a couple of prominent examples of people on the left who have been held up for some time as principled but who turned out to be anything but. Rather than reply with the usual suspects such as Nellist, a Trot who was deselected and expelled around the same time that Scargill tried to buy his Barbican flat under the right-to-buy scheme, you threw a strop. Presumably that's debate in your book, in which case NP&E must seem a strange place. Also fyi I don't play golf.

[crankedup]

barryrs said:

crankedup said:

Anyone would think an election is upon us, blatant electioneering on a grandiose scale is all this amounts to.

Would be saying that if the announcement was by a Mr Balls?

Damed if you do, damed if you don't.

Most certainly would, this type of guff is an insult to the electorate, although I would expect those that have even an inkling of interest see through this crap. The two main Parties are so weak neither deserve to be in Government imo.

[anonymous-user]

crankedup said:

The two main Parties are so weak neither deserve to be in Government imo.

I agree but as someone who identifies themselves as a LibDem do you think that desperate shower deserve to be in government? Have a presumptive from me!

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

fblm said:

who ultimately pays CT

If you explained (again) it wouldn't make any difference because it's just not fair.

The left wing 'intelligensia' like to anthropomorphize companies so they can, literally in many cartoons, paint 'them' as fat, evil, greedy, cigar smoking plutocrats. It's far easier to persuade the open mouthed voter to hate a person they don't like the look of than a legal construct they don't understand. Unfortunately this means they seem incapable of noticing that the only people who actually pay CT are the customers, employees and owners; that fat pin striped piggy in their imagination doesn't pay a cent.

[crankedup]

fblm said:

crankedup said:

The two main Parties are so weak neither deserve to be in Government imo.

I agree but as someone who identifies themselves as a LibDem do you think that desperate shower deserve to be in government? Have a presumptive from me!

Some friendly advise if I may, you should stop rolling about on the floor, it will ruin you're outfit.

As for the Lib-Dems, I agree we are in deep poo poo at the moment but disagree with you're assertion of 'desperate shower'. Happen to believe we have done rather well with our introduction of some policies whilst in Government as well as contain the Tories more extravagant whims. On that basis I would certainly suggest that another term would be reward for past efforts. But then if I was a declared contender for 'New Order' Party or any other Party I suggest you would still be rolling around in the dust!

[crankedup]

turbobloke said:

AW111 said:

This is why I generally avoid NP&E - the blanket hatred / dimissal of anyone to the left of Genghis Khan.
If you cannot accept that anyone you disagree with may have brains or principles, there is no point in attempting a debate.
Enjoy life in your little bunker .

What hatred would that be, in conparison to you, a PHer, describing PHers as angry middle-aged men, that wouldn't be hypocritical at all. Also there was no suggestion that everyone who disagrees (about what?) has no principles. Those who shout the loudest from the left-field usually end up with their trousers down, as I illustrated by a couple of examples. There was no anger, no hatred, just a couple of prominent examples of people on the left who have been held up for some time as principled but who turned out to be anything but. Rather than reply with the usual suspects such as Nellist, a Trot who was deselected and expelled around the same time that Scargill tried to buy his Barbican flat under the right-to-buy scheme, you threw a strop. Presumably that's debate in your book, in which case NP&E must seem a strange place. Also fyi I don't play golf.

For somebody who hasn't the front to proclaim support to any political Party (correct me if I am wrong)
its all so easy to sit in judgement from the top of a fence.

[ewenm]

Oh for the end of the party and whip system. Why should an MP for a rural area vote the same way as an MP for an urban area just because they are members of the same party?

They should all be independent, voting the way (they see as) best for their constituents' interests.

[crankedup]

ewenm said:

Oh for the end of the party and whip system. Why should an MP for a rural area vote the same way as an MP for an urban area just because they are members of the same party?

They should all be independent, voting the way (they see as) best for their constituents' interests.

The on-going devolution will, to some extent, address this issue.

[Rovinghawk]

turbobloke said:

see under Tony Benn, the last ditch hope of principled leftism died with him and his inheritance tax avoidance planning...

Despite disagreeing with Tony Benn's politics, I admired the man for his honesty & conviction.

Much of this evaporated when I learnt of his hypocrisy.

[Pit Pony]

Rovinghawk said:

turbobloke said:

see under Tony Benn, the last ditch hope of principled leftism died with him and his inheritance tax avoidance planning...

Despite disagreeing with Tony Benn's politics, I admired the man for his honesty & conviction.

Much of this evaporated when I learnt of his hypocrisy.

The way I see it, he was just a family man, who wanted to leave his Grandchildren a legacy to pay their university tuition fees, rather than let HMRC pass it on to Milli-cleg-mRon (They surely are as bad as each other) to waste badly.