Linda Norgrove.....
Discussion
armynick said:
Bottom line gents, she constantly refused her ex-pat security so she only has herself to blame. (I have that info from the horses mouth)
I have no sympathy with these do-gooder, tree huggers who come over here thinking they immune to danger. They think no one wants to harm them, even though they are fully briefed of the dangers.
A lot of them are on their own adjendas and live in fantasy worlds and they are often rude and arrogant towards their security, if they are forced to use us. I had to ask to be moved from one location last year for fear of losing my professionalism and kicking some of the clients out of the vehicle and leaving by the roadside.
These people often ignore local customs or cultures and invite trouble. They treat it like a playground to further ones career or to get subject matter for a book.
The American SEALS no doubt did what they could.
Rather more do gooders and less collateral damage might actually work. What we are currently doing certainly isn't. I have no sympathy with these do-gooder, tree huggers who come over here thinking they immune to danger. They think no one wants to harm them, even though they are fully briefed of the dangers.
A lot of them are on their own adjendas and live in fantasy worlds and they are often rude and arrogant towards their security, if they are forced to use us. I had to ask to be moved from one location last year for fear of losing my professionalism and kicking some of the clients out of the vehicle and leaving by the roadside.
These people often ignore local customs or cultures and invite trouble. They treat it like a playground to further ones career or to get subject matter for a book.
The American SEALS no doubt did what they could.
armynick said:
Mr_B said:
Sadly what this case highlights in the trend in drip feeding bad news in an effort to lessen the impact. Release the first part which is all very sad and tragic, then release the bit that might be controversial later when you hope everyone has forgotton or doesn't care to hear more bad news on an old story.
I think they have been quite quick and suprisingly very honest with this. You have to take into account mopping up after the operation, de-briefings of guys on the ground, guys in the Ops rooms and colating the information, including surviellance info, breifing the top brass, then the suits in the US Gov, then they will have to brief the Brit Gov, then they will have to discuss it before they do a press release.
That's a lot of info and facts to get right and a lot of different people to brief. All from a war zone thousands of miles away. Not too bad really and very honest of the Americans this time.
Not this rubbish about a suicide vest. It would appear the general public was fed propaganda.
Nothing would work here.
You can't help people who don't want helping. Especially with their culture. No one has changed them for centuries, there's a reason....
Also the Military can't do the job with one arm held behind their backs by politics. You're either at war or your not.
I think we are wasting our time and it is currently getting worse out here.
We should be spending the money back home.
You can't help people who don't want helping. Especially with their culture. No one has changed them for centuries, there's a reason....
Also the Military can't do the job with one arm held behind their backs by politics. You're either at war or your not.
I think we are wasting our time and it is currently getting worse out here.
We should be spending the money back home.
armynick said:
Nothing would work here.
You can't help people who don't want helping. Especially with their culture. No one has changed them for centuries, there's a reason....
Also the Military can't do the job with one arm held behind their backs by politics. You're either at war or your not.
I think we are wasting our time and it is currently getting worse out here.
We should be spending the money back home.
I agree that it's pointless, although I was under the impression there was a fairly firmly pencilled in date to get out. You can't help people who don't want helping. Especially with their culture. No one has changed them for centuries, there's a reason....
Also the Military can't do the job with one arm held behind their backs by politics. You're either at war or your not.
I think we are wasting our time and it is currently getting worse out here.
We should be spending the money back home.
The only useful thing is to trade with people, you don't kill your customers. NHS uses lots of pain killer, Afghanistan has lots of heroin, that would seem like a good start.
Fittster said:
armynick said:
Mr_B said:
Sadly what this case highlights in the trend in drip feeding bad news in an effort to lessen the impact. Release the first part which is all very sad and tragic, then release the bit that might be controversial later when you hope everyone has forgotton or doesn't care to hear more bad news on an old story.
I think they have been quite quick and suprisingly very honest with this. You have to take into account mopping up after the operation, de-briefings of guys on the ground, guys in the Ops rooms and colating the information, including surviellance info, breifing the top brass, then the suits in the US Gov, then they will have to brief the Brit Gov, then they will have to discuss it before they do a press release.
That's a lot of info and facts to get right and a lot of different people to brief. All from a war zone thousands of miles away. Not too bad really and very honest of the Americans this time.
Not this rubbish about a suicide vest. It would appear the general public was fed propaganda.
I would suggest that wounds from a hand grenade are different from those of a suicide vest and maybe a coronor spotted this.
I dare say, if someone did accidently kill her, the US Mil will try to establish the facts and they will come out.
They have on other occasions where the servicemen have been trigger happy.
audidoody said:
I would have silently nailed the guards at 500 yards with bow and arrow. Then, dressed as a Taliban, walked through the front door taking care of the rest of them with head shots (one each) from my silenced Glock 17. How hard can it be?
On beginner, easy peasy. On extreme, quite tough.Sad story all round, respect to both the peace workers and those who risked their lives in the rescue op.
dodgyviper said:
Perhaps I was doing Alf a disservice. I assume your next post is going to involve a Parrot on a stand leaning in a strong sidewind.
"Read enough Tom Clancy????"
Ohhh, you took me seriously! "Read enough Tom Clancy????"
dodgyviper said:
Along with :-
The Frankster is like, totally right about the flashbangs. Go and look up SOP for hostage takedowns please and tell us we're wrong. Go on.Frankeh said:
I've played enough counterstrike to know that you flash the hostage room, then enter.
Grenading the hostage room gets you kicked from the server.
Jeez if only the virtual warriors would take the place of the real ones then the war will be over by Christmas (see what I did there?).Grenading the hostage room gets you kicked from the server.
Grenading the hostage indeed. You can't even get away with that s
t on Socom 2, and that was PS2 from like, 8 years ago 
dreamz said:
as soon as the story broke i was like naaaa this was a botch up.
no reason for the taliban to kill thier asset
bloody yanks once again.
Yeah man I was like naaaaah init.... no reason for the taliban to kill thier asset
bloody yanks once again.
How about try it yourself, init blud. I am sure whilst your listening to your chavy little uk hip hop and firing your gat, blat blat that this wouldnt have happened. Blat Blat Blat
Seriously join the special forces and give it a go or stop trolling.
There was a bod on the radio today, talking about this, IIRC he was one of the people involved in the Iranian embassy siege and rightly pointed out that any operation like this is massively risky and that they were very very lucky with the number of casualties in the embassy.
Rather than berate the yanks for this, I think it would be better to put it down as a very sad and tragic statistic and remember the massive help and support our troops get from the far better equipped Americans.
Rather than berate the yanks for this, I think it would be better to put it down as a very sad and tragic statistic and remember the massive help and support our troops get from the far better equipped Americans.
AndrewW-G said:
There was a bod on the radio today, talking about this, IIRC he was one of the people involved in the Iranian embassy siege and rightly pointed out that any operation like this is massively risky and that they were very very lucky with the number of casualties in the embassy.
That would no doubt be Robin Horsfall, who, on one of the 6 o'clock(ish) news programmes questioned the wisdom of issuing "lethal" hand grenades to Troops involved in a building assault to rescue a Hostage.I am no Soldier, never have been and never will be, but Mr Horsfall most certainly was and his opinion seems somewhat valid.
Edited by MonkeyHanger on Monday 11th October 19:24
Michael Yon (US war blogger, fascintating read if you have a spare few hours to read his site) emailed the US top brass and got this reply -
"Additional information developed by the military commander in charge of the rescue operation prompted Gen. Petraeus to call for an immediate investigation. Review of the surveillance footage and discussions with rescue team members did not conclusively determine the cause of Linda Norgrove's death. The initial report was that the captor set off some sort of explosive device which killed Ms. Norgrove. The review showed what was believed to be a member of the rescue team throwing a hand grenade in the area near where Ms. Norgrove was later found. It's now unclear what the exact circumstances surrounding her death are, and the investigation will attempt to determine the facts."
So it seems it was just a bit of confusion that led to the wrong information coming out to start with. I also heard on the news that the US forces were chosen as they knew the area better.
"Additional information developed by the military commander in charge of the rescue operation prompted Gen. Petraeus to call for an immediate investigation. Review of the surveillance footage and discussions with rescue team members did not conclusively determine the cause of Linda Norgrove's death. The initial report was that the captor set off some sort of explosive device which killed Ms. Norgrove. The review showed what was believed to be a member of the rescue team throwing a hand grenade in the area near where Ms. Norgrove was later found. It's now unclear what the exact circumstances surrounding her death are, and the investigation will attempt to determine the facts."
So it seems it was just a bit of confusion that led to the wrong information coming out to start with. I also heard on the news that the US forces were chosen as they knew the area better.
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