Deutsche Bahn wants to use Channel Tunnel
Discussion
F i F said:
sjg said:
If I could hop on a train at St Pancras and be in Amsterdam four hours later, or the german cities in five hours, I'd take them over flying any day. It's feasible now but in slightly more time and with changes, plus booking tickets can be an exercise in confusion.
This ^^, also the long distance City Night Line sleeper train style services could do some good business I reckon.http://www.seat61.com/citynightline.htm#video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightstar_(train)
Absolutely brilliant in theory, go to sleep in Manchester, wake up in Berlin or Marseilles. In reality a master-class in how to piss hundreds of millions of pounds up the wall.
TEKNOPUG said:
5 hours on a train to Frankfurt from St.Pancras?!?!?
It's a 2 hour journey max from City Aiport, including check-ins and border control.
Depends which is easier to get to etc as to time savings. It's a 2 hour journey max from City Aiport, including check-ins and border control.
Don't forget that the train station in Frankfurt is likely to actually be in Frankfurt rather than a 30 minute over priced taxi ride away.
Add to this that the more available options the more price pressure, so even if you want to fly it is going to help keep your costs down.
For me it is certainly easier to commute 10 mins to St Pancras and 5 hours later be in the heart of Frankfurt than get to Stanstead, Luton, Heathrow or City for a flight to take me somewhere roughly near to where I want to be.
If you could take a car then it means Ring time is all the more simple.
t at the airport.The Germans are blaming the Frogs trying to block them using the tunnel, and the sale of the Siemens trainsets to Eurostar.
German, French rail companies on collision course over Channel Tunnel:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6119722,00.ht...
"The tests pose a problem for the French government and French firm Alstom. Eurostar, the company with the monopoly on the cross-Channel rail link between Britain and France want to buy high-speed trains from Deutsche Bahn in order to increase the tunnel's traffic capacity.
Last Thursday, France's transport minister insisted that Eurostar cannot buy German trains because only rolling stock made by Alstom meets safety standards. Minister Dominique Bussereau dismissed an announcement by Eurostar that it had ordered 10 high-speed Velaro trains from German group Siemens, a setback for French group Alstom, as EU railways are opened up to competition.
"We have told the directors of Eurotunnel and Eurostar that equipment other than that currently made by Alstom cannot go in the tunnel, so Eurostar's decision is null and void," Bussereau told LCI television."
"Eurotunnel has said the tunnels are only being run at capacity of 50 percent at the moment. If the German trains pass all the tests, the French government could face accusations of protectionism."
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6125076,00.ht...
"The Inter City Express (ICE) was the first passenger train not operated by the Eurostar company to travel the Channel Tunnel. Eurostar, which is jointly owned by France, Britain and Belgium, uses French-built TGV trains on the stretch. ICE trains are built by Siemens.
New EU legislation recently opened up the route for competition. Despite protests, in particular from the French side, Germany's Deutsche Bahn (DB) rail operator is pushing to compete with Eurostar.
The first German train entered the tunnel over the weekend, when DB staged a mock evacuation to ensure that the ICE met safety standards there.
The decision to approve the German trains to run in the tunnel now rests with a French-British safety commission."
German, French rail companies on collision course over Channel Tunnel:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6119722,00.ht...
"The tests pose a problem for the French government and French firm Alstom. Eurostar, the company with the monopoly on the cross-Channel rail link between Britain and France want to buy high-speed trains from Deutsche Bahn in order to increase the tunnel's traffic capacity.
Last Thursday, France's transport minister insisted that Eurostar cannot buy German trains because only rolling stock made by Alstom meets safety standards. Minister Dominique Bussereau dismissed an announcement by Eurostar that it had ordered 10 high-speed Velaro trains from German group Siemens, a setback for French group Alstom, as EU railways are opened up to competition.
"We have told the directors of Eurotunnel and Eurostar that equipment other than that currently made by Alstom cannot go in the tunnel, so Eurostar's decision is null and void," Bussereau told LCI television."
"Eurotunnel has said the tunnels are only being run at capacity of 50 percent at the moment. If the German trains pass all the tests, the French government could face accusations of protectionism."
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6125076,00.ht...
"The Inter City Express (ICE) was the first passenger train not operated by the Eurostar company to travel the Channel Tunnel. Eurostar, which is jointly owned by France, Britain and Belgium, uses French-built TGV trains on the stretch. ICE trains are built by Siemens.
New EU legislation recently opened up the route for competition. Despite protests, in particular from the French side, Germany's Deutsche Bahn (DB) rail operator is pushing to compete with Eurostar.
The first German train entered the tunnel over the weekend, when DB staged a mock evacuation to ensure that the ICE met safety standards there.
The decision to approve the German trains to run in the tunnel now rests with a French-British safety commission."
krallicious said:
I remember driving along the A3 near Limburg last summer at around 160mph. The ICE train (one pictured by the BBC) past me like I was standing still!
A lot of the A3 runs parallel to the train line around there. There's absolutely no chance of keeping up with them. Bizarrely it feels serene when on the train though. Thanks for those links smack. Well all power to DB then, sodding lamb burning communists.
I find it somewhat ironic that a company in one of the most protectionist countries (albeit not overtly all undercover ime) and a company that has benefited greatly from that behaviour in the past is attempting to break this situation. A real case of double standards if ever there was one.
I find it somewhat ironic that a company in one of the most protectionist countries (albeit not overtly all undercover ime) and a company that has benefited greatly from that behaviour in the past is attempting to break this situation. A real case of double standards if ever there was one.
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
hornetrider said:
sjg said:
If I could hop on a train at St Pancras and be in Amsterdam four hours later, or the german cities in five hours, I'd take them over flying any day. It's feasible now but in slightly more time and with changes, plus booking tickets can be an exercise in confusion.
Agreed, having used Eurostar quite a few times I'd say its an excellent service. What's not to like about extending this to Frankfurt and the 'Dam?
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
wiggy001 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
Edited by Silver993tt on Wednesday 20th October 14:26
Silver993tt said:
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
But in principle I support silver993tt's views on this.
To some extent things aren't so far away already.
e.g. I could get from my Worcester place to StPancras in 3-3.5 hours best using pubic transport, 2.5 hours absolute best if I ignore home to train station and use a cab, quite feasible. At the moment I can get from home to airside LHR T5 in two hours ten mins max.
Obviously one doesn't cut such journeys so fine but it's quite an attractive prospect spending twenty minutes more to have a relatively civilised journey and avoid M40 MLMs, M25 road to hell, and LHR numpties, even though I quite like T5 and I know silver993tt hates it, but set that personal issue aside.
But spending an hour and a half more which is what most journeys would actually involve just makes it unworkable.
Edited by F i F on Wednesday 20th October 14:33
Silver993tt said:
wiggy001 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
Edited by Silver993tt on Wednesday 20th October 14:26
That would be the simplest, PH friendly, solution.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff