Deutsche Bahn wants to use Channel Tunnel
Discussion
bob1179 said:
I think it is a great idea. I'd love to see the tunnel used by more European companies. The competition will certainly bring fare down.
I do find it amusing that the French are complaining about Eurostar buying German rolling stock...
You would think they had got used to German machinery traveling at speed through the French countryside, trying to get to England.I do find it amusing that the French are complaining about Eurostar buying German rolling stock...
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 20th October 14:53
DonkeyApple said:
bob1179 said:
I think it is a great idea. I'd love to see the tunnel used by more European companies. The competition will certainly bring fare down.
I do find it amusing that the French are complaining about Eurostar buying German rolling stock...
You would think they had got used to German machinery traveling at speed through the French countryside, trying to get to England.I do find it amusing that the French are complaining about Eurostar buying German rolling stock...
Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 20th October 14:53
Silver993tt said:
wiggy001 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
Edited by Silver993tt on Wednesday 20th October 14:26
eyebeebe said:
Silver993tt said:
wiggy001 said:
DonkeyApple said:
Silver993tt said:
In order for these new services to be made very attractive, trains from all around London need to be put in place that run straight through to Kings Cross/St Pancras. For example, now that Waterloo International is closed, it takes far too long for those South West of London to get to Kings Cross, typicaly at least an hour with changes. With a checkin time of 30mins for these international trains, that makes the total time 6.5 hours (e.g Frankfurt). Feasibly you're looking at 7 hours, so not really attractive when total journey time by air, inc getting to airport etc is usually around 4 hours. There's a huge catchment area south west/west of London that's not going to bother unless there are direct services - i.e only one change involved on the way to Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Cologne etc. When I lived in the UK I used Eurostar many times from Waterloo because it meant only one change. When that closed I never bothered again and returned to flying.
Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
You'd park and ride at Ashford International if you were south of the River though?Of course fares will also have to be attractive. Current Eurostar fares are too expensive with the headline low fares only available way in advance. What's needed in something like a £90 return fare to Frankfurt available any date/any time without any notice.
Edited by Silver993tt on Wednesday 20th October 14:26
Would be great to have more high speed services to the rest of Europe, as I much prefer Eurostar to flying. Shorter check-in, no baggage reclaim hassle, more relaxed all round and direct to the centre of Paris. I'd happily sacrifice a bit of time to travel like that rather than be herded around airports and treated like a terrorist. Would be good to work on more fast links into King's Cross, but realistically, where are you going to put them, as there's not a great deal of space? Would be better to try and have a fast outer ring, almost a rail M25 if you will, to remove the need to go into London in the first place. For those coming from the north, the proposed HS2 will go into Euston (I think?), so more or less next door, plus Crossrail will be one tube stop away at Farringdon for those coming from the west. Shame we couldn't have had all this 20 years ago, but there you go. I'll be shouted at for being London-centric, but the trains have improved a lot over the last few years, what with HS1, DLR extensions and the ELLX, not to mention Thameslink, whenever that gets finished.
zcacogp said:
Last April I got two people and one car across the channel to France and back a week later, with change from £40.
I think, with ferry companies, it's worth planning when you are going to travel as prices vary wildly. I agree they can be very pricey for some crossings.
Oli.
It's the petrol that's the killer, I think Driving to Germany (and Back) would be slightly more than £40, More like £250I think, with ferry companies, it's worth planning when you are going to travel as prices vary wildly. I agree they can be very pricey for some crossings.
Oli.
JensenA said:
zcacogp said:
Last April I got two people and one car across the channel to France and back a week later, with change from £40.
I think, with ferry companies, it's worth planning when you are going to travel as prices vary wildly. I agree they can be very pricey for some crossings.
Oli.
It's the petrol that's the killer, I think Driving to Germany (and Back) would be slightly more than £40, More like £250I think, with ferry companies, it's worth planning when you are going to travel as prices vary wildly. I agree they can be very pricey for some crossings.
Oli.
Train fares for the car full of passengers would have been a lot, even with booking long way in advance.
It's difficult for transport to compete pricewise against multi occupancy car travel where the car is a viable option but single travellers or maybe couples should be a PoP.
Well, now that DB are getting involved in the UK, maybe they can also introduce some Autozug (Motorail) services as they already do in Germany. It would be great to put your car on the train somewhere near London and then drive off in Munich just an hour from the Alps. It's already a regular service from places like Hamburg, Duesseldorf, Cologne etc.
Silver993tt said:
Well, now that DB are getting involved in the UK, maybe they can also introduce some Autozug (Motorail) services as they already do in Germany. It would be great to put your car on the train somewhere near London and then drive off in Munich just an hour from the Alps. It's already a regular service from places like Hamburg, Duesseldorf, Cologne etc.
Good point.This would be a really good starting point in terms of dealing with the issues of getting people to St Pancras by train. Obvious first place for the loading point is Folkestone, but Brum International could be another handy place, and then Manchester, and so on. Add on Glasgow and helluva a catchment area with those four start points.
unpc said:
krallicious said:
I remember driving along the A3 near Limburg last summer at around 160mph. The ICE train (one pictured by the BBC) past me like I was standing still!
A lot of the A3 runs parallel to the train line around there. 
Silver993tt said:
Well, now that DB are getting involved in the UK, maybe they can also introduce some Autozug (Motorail) services as they already do in Germany. It would be great to put your car on the train somewhere near London and then drive off in Munich just an hour from the Alps. It's already a regular service from places like Hamburg, Duesseldorf, Cologne etc.
And another plus point is you do not have to drive through Belgium 
In the spirit of the original 1881 Channel Tunnel, it was only for the French and English during a brief period when the French weren't being International a
holes and the Kaiser was being a bit of a knob, flashing his big guns around.
Within 2 years the French were back to being International aholes and so the British stopped digging but shortly after discovered the French had given up some time earlier.
Even the modern tunnel is basically a lower intestine, insomuch as there is an ahole at the other end.
holes and the Kaiser was being a bit of a knob, flashing his big guns around.Within 2 years the French were back to being International a
holes and so the British stopped digging but shortly after discovered the French had given up some time earlier.Even the modern tunnel is basically a lower intestine, insomuch as there is an a
hole at the other end.Sorry Froggies, you lose:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11655460
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11655460
BBC said:
Alstom loses Eurostar court case over German train deal
Alstom, the French engineering company, has failed in an attempt to prevent Eurostar from running German trains through the Channel Tunnel.
A UK court rejected Alstom's bid to stop Eurostar's 600m-euro (£521m) order for trains made by Siemens.
Eurostar, the sole operator of passenger trains through the tunnel, has been using Alstom rolling stock.
Eurostar's order for 10 Siemens trains has raised concerns of a protectionist row between France and Germany.
Alstom had sought an injunction stopping Eurostar from completing the deal for Siemens' high speed trains.
But at London High Court, Mr Justice Vos said Alstom would be unlikely to succeed at a trial in obtaining a court order setting aside Eurostar's decision to award the contract to Siemens.
He said he was refusing to grant an injunction, because it would pose a threat to Eurostar's progress in acquiring new trains and their business, as any trial of the issues could cause significant delays.
Sarah Hannaford QC, for Alstom, had told Mr Justice Vos that Eurostar had breached European contract law.
'Serious breaches'
The complaint concerned the way the tender for the trains progressed, and whether Eurostar continued to negotiate with Siemens when Alstom had thought there was a deal to temporarily suspend all talks.
Ms Hannaford said: "Alstom's case is that there are serious breaches of the obligations of equal treatment, transparency and non-discrimination."
However, Mr Vos said that, although there had been breaches of the tendering process, they were unlikely to have made any difference to Eurostar's decision to choose Siemens trains.
He said that Siemens was already well ahead in the bidding process when Alstom had thought talks were being suspended.
Alstom, the French engineering company, has failed in an attempt to prevent Eurostar from running German trains through the Channel Tunnel.
A UK court rejected Alstom's bid to stop Eurostar's 600m-euro (£521m) order for trains made by Siemens.
Eurostar, the sole operator of passenger trains through the tunnel, has been using Alstom rolling stock.
Eurostar's order for 10 Siemens trains has raised concerns of a protectionist row between France and Germany.
Alstom had sought an injunction stopping Eurostar from completing the deal for Siemens' high speed trains.
But at London High Court, Mr Justice Vos said Alstom would be unlikely to succeed at a trial in obtaining a court order setting aside Eurostar's decision to award the contract to Siemens.
He said he was refusing to grant an injunction, because it would pose a threat to Eurostar's progress in acquiring new trains and their business, as any trial of the issues could cause significant delays.
Sarah Hannaford QC, for Alstom, had told Mr Justice Vos that Eurostar had breached European contract law.
'Serious breaches'
The complaint concerned the way the tender for the trains progressed, and whether Eurostar continued to negotiate with Siemens when Alstom had thought there was a deal to temporarily suspend all talks.
Ms Hannaford said: "Alstom's case is that there are serious breaches of the obligations of equal treatment, transparency and non-discrimination."
However, Mr Vos said that, although there had been breaches of the tendering process, they were unlikely to have made any difference to Eurostar's decision to choose Siemens trains.
He said that Siemens was already well ahead in the bidding process when Alstom had thought talks were being suspended.
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