Half a million public sector job cuts tomorrow.....

[Chris_w666]

Dupont666 said:

Chris_w666 said:

rich1231 said:

The public sector is not in exisitance to serve only its own interests... Shock for many of you though that will be.

My experience of large swathes of the public sector is that it serves its own interests first in most occasions. I can think of several very large government grants that have been allocated via local authorities but the services have been delivered by a mix of charities, non profit companies etc. I can think of 3 of these from different govt depts in the past 3 years with over £10million a time being spent where the money allocated was a 40% - 60% split with the local authority taking the 40% for admin and management costs, often charging for the time of already salaried staff or promoting people into positions that were completely wrong for that individual.

Surely if the services were delivered on 60% of the money allocated then it stands to reason that by cutting the expensive LA management system the overall spend could be cut by at least 20% with no drop and possibly an improvement in services.

Cue all the public sector workers defend their department as no PHer that is a public sector worker has ever seen this rot that is out there and its all hard work and graft and without them the Public sector will fall apart.

I have no doubt some would think I made that up but I actually have contracts, and evidence that prove the amount of wasteage and inefficiency.

£25,000 worth of salary Printed P11's are suitable evidence, £100 on some stationery and they want blood. The clots have no idea how to monitor things as if they did they would know that an internally produced wage slip or in year P11 are much easier to fake than an external stationers invoice.

[Tsippy]

HardToLove said:

Tsippy said:

I think you'll find that you're the one whinging I'm just trying to explain why the public sector is unsustainable and needs cutting sooner rather than later, but I guess it's difficult for anyone to accept economic realities when their job is at risk.

What typically snotty ,selfish attitude!

In what way? There's nothing false in my post

[Johnnytheboy]

Dupont666 said:

Cue all the public sector workers defend their department as no PHer that is a public sector worker has ever seen this rot that is out there and its all hard work and graft and without them the Public sector will fall apart.

...and that all private sector workers are rich bankers who have 'had it good' for the last twenty five years.




(edited to fix quotes. Bloody PH forum software can't cope with idiots like me)

Edited by Johnnytheboy on Monday 25th October 18:16

[Dupont666]

Johnnytheboy said:

Dupont666 said:

Cue all the public sector workers defend their department as no PHer that is a public sector worker has ever seen this rot that is out there and its all hard work and graft and without them the Public sector will fall apart.

...and that all private sector workers are rich bankers who have 'had it good' for the last twenty five years.

dodgy quoting me thinks Fixed...

Dont forget all the scum sucking lawyers, boring accountants and malpractice doctors who have been been living the good life when they shouldnt.

[Silver993tt]

Dupont666 said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Dupont666 said:

Cue all the public sector workers defend their department as no PHer that is a public sector worker has ever seen this rot that is out there and its all hard work and graft and without them the Public sector will fall apart.

...and that all private sector workers are rich bankers who have 'had it good' for the last twenty five years.

dodgy quoting me thinks Fixed...

Dont forget all the scum sucking lawyers, boring accountants and malpractice doctors who have been been living the good life when they shouldnt.

at least you can choose which lawyer, accountant and doctor that you want to use. You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Edited by Silver993tt on Monday 25th October 13:19

[Elroy Blue]

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

[Dupont666]

Elroy Blue said:

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

Doctors can be private you know so you can choose.

There probably is private sector companies taking advantage of all this but your point is what? Most public sectors spend all budget cause if they dont they dont get the budget next year, so most of the time its still the public sector that is the cause of private sector companies taking advantage... stop them doing it and stop the advantage being taken by private sector.

[Silver993tt]

Elroy Blue said:

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

so why should one have to pay for an NHS doctor if one is paying for a private service? The same goes with dentists, no chance of getting seen by an NHS dentist for years and yet one still has to pay for it through the tax system. That is simply theft, paying for a service twice and getting it only once.

[Chris_w666]

Dupont666 said:

Elroy Blue said:

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

Doctors can be private you know so you can choose.

There probably is private sector companies taking advantage of all this but your point is what? Most public sectors spend all budget cause if they dont they dont get the budget next year, so most of the time its still the public sector that is the cause of private sector companies taking advantage... stop them doing it and stop the advantage being taken by private sector.

They also use the joke system of having preferred providers, usually selected using the old boys network or secret handshakes (though nobody can prove the existence of the brown envelopes). These preferred providers then know they don't have to compete on price and will quote £10,000 if the budget is £10,000 regardless of whether that represents value or not.

If my workplace needs to buy something we get the best deal we can manage a couple of us work out what we can afford, get it approved and go and find things at the best price/quality, so an item will always bought at or near to the best price available and I've known us be able to decide on even big items within a few short hours. Compare that to a Public sector department the decision will take days or weeks and then be passed to the procurement department who will use their preffered supplier regardless of quality of service or cost, if the supplier cannot provide the item a meeting to discuss alternatives is held or a new supplier must be sought. The difference in the money spent on items could be a few hundred or a couple of thousand pounds, the real waste is the bureaucracy involved and the time/salary that could have been spent on other things.

[Sticks.]

Silver993tt said:

Elroy Blue said:

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

so why should one have to pay for an NHS doctor if one is paying for a private service? The same goes with dentists, no chance of getting seen by an NHS dentist for years and yet one still has to pay for it through the tax system. That is simply theft, paying for a service twice and getting it only once.

It was like with dentists, yes, but you'd not get a private ambulance, A&E or very specialist care privately. Ie, you can't opt out completely, though some get better value than others.

[Silver993tt]

Sticks. said:

Silver993tt said:

Elroy Blue said:

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

so why should one have to pay for an NHS doctor if one is paying for a private service? The same goes with dentists, no chance of getting seen by an NHS dentist for years and yet one still has to pay for it through the tax system. That is simply theft, paying for a service twice and getting it only once.

It was like with dentists, yes, but you'd not get a private ambulance, A&E or very specialist care privately. Ie, you can't opt out completely, though some get better value than others.

the A&E is only a fraction of the cost of the NHS, it's not an excuse to charge people 100% if they've opted for a private health plan which in the end takes a lot of pressure cost off the NHS.

[Sticks.]

Silver993tt said:

Sticks. said:

Silver993tt said:

Elroy Blue said:

Silver993tt said:

[ You also don't pay a lawyer, accountant or doctor when you're not using their services. You can't do that with the public secor, you simply receive a huge bill each month whether you want/use their "services" or not.

Doctor-NHS!

You might want to rethink that.

I have no doubt there is massive waste in Public Sector contracts and purchasing. Equally, I'm sure there are many private sector companies taking full advantage of it. (But that'll be ok no doubt.)

so why should one have to pay for an NHS doctor if one is paying for a private service? The same goes with dentists, no chance of getting seen by an NHS dentist for years and yet one still has to pay for it through the tax system. That is simply theft, paying for a service twice and getting it only once.

It was like with dentists, yes, but you'd not get a private ambulance, A&E or very specialist care privately. Ie, you can't opt out completely, though some get better value than others.

the A&E is only a fraction of the cost of the NHS, it's not an excuse to charge people 100% if they've opted for a private health plan which in the end takes a lot of pressure cost off the NHS.

I understand your point but it's not just A&E. Ok, can I opt out of paying for Child Benefit then, as I have none? And winter fuel allowance, because I won't need it; anything to do with regenerating northern towns; schools, maternity units, etc etc.

[captainzep]

Well then.

That's me formally 'at risk' as of this morning. Formal notice of redundancy is likely on Jan 7th.

Luckily I have an interesting plan 'B' which allowed me to be cheerful and upbeat during the meeting with boss and HR. They looked very solemn and stressed, quite glad I'm not in their shoes.

Strange feeling, but after months of uncertainty I'm neither particularly sad nor worried. I feel no bitterness or indignance and am genuinely looking forward to what's next...

[jet_noise]

Dear captainzep,

captainzep said:

Well then.

That's me formally 'at risk' as of this morning. Formal notice of redundancy is likely on Jan 7th.

Luckily I have an interesting plan 'B' which allowed me to be cheerful and upbeat during the meeting with boss and HR. They looked very solemn and stressed, quite glad I'm not in their shoes.

Strange feeling, but after months of uncertainty I'm neither particularly sad nor worried. I feel no bitterness or indignance and am genuinely looking forward to what's next...

Mrs Noise is in both you and your bosses position - she is herself on the end of a boot AND having to make choices/give the boot to some of her staff. [understatement] She is not enjoying the process [/understatement].
Although she also has a plan B (good for us) she is hugely stressed about those of her staff who are breadwinners and may not (have a fallback). Who'd be a caring boss, eh?,

regards,
Jet

[Digga]

jet_noise said:

Dear captainzep,

captainzep said:

Well then.

That's me formally 'at risk' as of this morning. Formal notice of redundancy is likely on Jan 7th.

Luckily I have an interesting plan 'B' which allowed me to be cheerful and upbeat during the meeting with boss and HR. They looked very solemn and stressed, quite glad I'm not in their shoes.

Strange feeling, but after months of uncertainty I'm neither particularly sad nor worried. I feel no bitterness or indignance and am genuinely looking forward to what's next...

Mrs Noise is in both you and your bosses position - she is herself on the end of a boot AND having to make choices/give the boot to some of her staff. [understatement] She is not enjoying the process [/understatement].
Although she also has a plan B (good for us) she is hugely stressed about those of her staff who are breadwinners and may not (have a fallback). Who'd be a caring boss, eh?,

regards,
Jet

Not to make light of this - you both have my sympathy - but my wife's private sector employers had several successive years of annual redundancy rounds.

In fact, ironcially, the firm had got itself down to "fighting weight" prior to the credit crunch - it really was a case of efficiency savings.

It is perhaps now apparent to certain elemtents of the public sector, quite how disconnected thay have been from the economic climate.

[captainzep]

Digga said:

It is perhaps now apparent to certain elemtents of the public sector, quite how disconnected thay have been from the economic climate.

The NHS isn't a profit making business and 'demand' for its services is increasing. Thus a certain 'disconnection' or at least 'buffering' is hardly surprising.

In addition the political aspect means that restructuring and change is not uncommon. I've had 4 different local employing organisations in 13 years, each of which have been put in place and then wound up/re-organised. So the threat of redundancy isn't new. In '07 I had to enter into a competitive interview where there were fewer posts than people. What's new this time is a much more crowded job market and that's the thing many Pub-Sector people wil struggle with.

But I'll just clarify a few points.

• I'm not bleating.
• I'm not special because I'm Pub-Sector.
• Priv-Sector has had it worse.
• I've never complained about my pay and I (should be) in a modestly fortunate position in terms of redundancy settlement.

[superlightr]

captainzep said:

Digga said:

It is perhaps now apparent to certain elemtents of the public sector, quite how disconnected thay have been from the economic climate.

The NHS isn't a profit making business and 'demand' for its services is increasing. Thus a certain 'disconnection' or at least 'buffering' is hardly surprising.

In addition the political aspect means that restructuring and change is not uncommon. I've had 4 different local employing organisations in 13 years, each of which have been put in place and then wound up/re-organised. So the threat of redundancy isn't new. In '07 I had to enter into a competitive interview where there were fewer posts than people. What's new this time is a much more crowded job market and that's the thing many Pub-Sector people wil struggle with.

But I'll just clarify a few points.

• I'm not bleating.
• I'm not special because I'm Pub-Sector.
• Priv-Sector has had it worse.
• I've never complained about my pay and I (should be) in a modestly fortunate position in terms of redundancy settlement.

oh oh oh...... go on have a whinge - please - otherwise this will throw PH into a turmoil as we we wont know what to do ????!! a non whinging sacked public sector bloke !! never - not on Pistonheads.

have you posted a small moan yet???

Edited by superlightr on Monday 1st November 16:58

[Digga]

captainzep said:

Digga said:

It is perhaps now apparent to certain elemtents of the public sector, quite how disconnected thay have been from the economic climate.

The NHS isn't a profit making business and 'demand' for its services is increasing. Thus a certain 'disconnection' or at least 'buffering' is hardly surprising.

In addition the political aspect means that restructuring and change is not uncommon. I've had 4 different local employing organisations in 13 years, each of which have been put in place and then wound up/re-organised. So the threat of redundancy isn't new. In '07 I had to enter into a competitive interview where there were fewer posts than people. What's new this time is a much more crowded job market and that's the thing many Pub-Sector people wil struggle with.

But I'll just clarify a few points.

• I'm not bleating.
• I'm not special because I'm Pub-Sector.
• Priv-Sector has had it worse.
• I've never complained about my pay and I (should be) in a modestly fortunate position in terms of redundancy settlement.

You still have my heartfelt sympathy.

ETA. Clearly you were not one of the elements of the public sector that was blissfully unaware of economic reality.

I hope your "Plan B" is an enjoyable!

Edited by Digga on Monday 1st November 17:09

[fido]

Digga said:

Clearly you were not one of the elements of the public sector that was blissfully unaware of economic reality.

There are plenty of Tory-voting public sector workers - my sister is one of them and they are cutting big time in her department. Difference i suppose is that she is intelligent enough to understand her predicament is not the fault of 'The Man' but government overspend etc.

[Guybrush]

fido said:

Digga said:

Clearly you were not one of the elements of the public sector that was blissfully unaware of economic reality.

There are plenty of Tory-voting public sector workers - my sister is one of them and they are cutting big time in her department. Difference i suppose is that she is intelligent enough to understand her predicament is not the fault of 'The Man' but government overspend etc.

Yes, there are some intelligent ones who think like this. I have some friends in the CS and they are well aware of the Broon / Bliar overspend and the only way to deal with it. They are also well aware of the overmanning, particularly bloated and underworked in the middle and senior ranks.