How far will house prices fall? [Volume 3]
Discussion
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
fido said:
NoelWatson said:
"because they can’t be sold."
?
negative equity? mind you in that situation, they can still sell the house and take on a personal loan.?
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
spikeyhead said:
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
I'd also guess those who supply conventional building products are big enough and ugly enough to enjoy access to considerable politcal power too.
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
A lot of that is down to planning and also finance.
There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
You would require a different kind of mortgage where the long term debt was on the land but a shorter term loan was issued alonside for the structure.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
I've watched homes being built in the US and they don't half look flimsy! The maintenance costs must surely be much higher - asphalt shingle roofs that they commonly use only last 20years.
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
A lot of that is down to planning and also finance.
There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
You would require a different kind of mortgage where the long term debt was on the land but a shorter term loan was issued alonside for the structure.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
I've watched homes being built in the US and they don't half look flimsy! The maintenance costs must surely be much higher - asphalt shingle roofs that they commonly use only last 20years.
Granted, the bricks 'n' mortar part of it was fine - had to be to get past building regs - but the rest was thrown together like a drunk's supper.
paulrockliffe said:
Are there any sensible alternatives to brick from a sound insulation point of view? All these prefab things are fine, but if they're like every house I've been in built in the last 10 years, I'd rather not be able to hear someone snoring on the other side of the house!
Try living in a modern Dutch terraced house. The bloke next door but one flushes the toilet at 6:40am every weekday morning. Granted, it's only about 18ft away, but you can imagine how noisy it is in a row of terraces like that.Digga said:
spikeyhead said:
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
I'd also guess those who supply conventional building products are big enough and ugly enough to enjoy access to considerable politcal power too.
The problem is not the quality of the homes but the fact that the mortgage market is standardised and the staff operate off a crib sheet.
Because 'bricks' are so ingrained in the UK culture I suspect you will have an uphill struggle to get similar mortgage terms on some of these modern, very cheap, DIY homes.
Banks don't even want to lend on bluechip brick resi let alone something more esoteric.
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
spikeyhead said:
Digga said:
DonkeyApple said:
Digga said:
Deva Link said:
Digga said:
I don't think prices are right, but neither is supply. It's a curious position, in the midst of what seems to be a rout on the housing market, but we need lower prices and more supply (of the right stuff in the right areas). Perhaps builders need to build to enable the market to drop?
I suppose that with the escalating prices of raw materials there must be an issue that there's little or no money in house building at the bottom end of the market.There is no reason why we in the UK have to live inside brick & mortar constructions. The USA, Cananda and Scandinavian countires - just for example - all use a natural, sustainable construction (timber) which is faster and cheaper to erect. In fact much of this type of home can be pre-fabriacted off site. (Ever seen one of those out-of-otwn McDonald's reastaurants built?)
Apparently, planning authorities and mortgage companies get fussy about the details of said constructions.
Or the land owner parcels the land up and offers leases (financed monthly) on it and the buyer of the lease builds a flat pack there using a 10/15 yr mortgage.
Two of my neighbours houses are oak framed, timbered properties. Both were built in 1910 (they served as the officers mess during Great War when Cannock Chase was a very large army base) and both are still standing. No concrete cancer, no frost damage to brickwork, no cracks or faults.
I'd also guess those who supply conventional building products are big enough and ugly enough to enjoy access to considerable politcal power too.
The problem is not the quality of the homes but the fact that the mortgage market is standardised and the staff operate off a crib sheet.
Because 'bricks' are so ingrained in the UK culture I suspect you will have an uphill struggle to get similar mortgage terms on some of these modern, very cheap, DIY homes.
Banks don't even want to lend on bluechip brick resi let alone something more esoteric.
In reality, there was nothing wrong with the theory, it was the implementation, but as a result of the issues then, alot of mortgage companies stopped lending on softwood framed houses.
Hardwood is alot easier, even now.
loafer123 said:
The reason for problems with lending on timber framed construction was the rot issues with 1970s softwood timber framed houses.
In reality, there was nothing wrong with the theory, it was the implementation, but as a result of the issues then, alot of mortgage companies stopped lending on softwood framed houses.
Hardwood is alot easier, even now.
This, I'm old enough to remember the media articles and programmes exposing the problems when the major housebuilders attempted timberframe construction.In reality, there was nothing wrong with the theory, it was the implementation, but as a result of the issues then, alot of mortgage companies stopped lending on softwood framed houses.
Hardwood is alot easier, even now.
Basically down to poor site management and lack of workforce training.
However, there are still concerns about performance when fire occurs.
I do though think that, executed properly, using the correct designs and materials, timberframe has a lot to offer, especially if the UK wants to provide more housing in a short timescale.
Deva Link said:
Whatever happened to those villages of Ikea houses that were supposed to be popping up all over the place, and the blocks of pods in London?
Was that Prescott's £60K challenge to housebuilders?Then there was the cost of the land, perhaps conveniently ignored in the original brief.
ringram said:
Most NZ houses are wood. Maintenance means swapping coverboards frequently, also insulation is pretty bad.
Terrace and town houses are normally brick because of the noise issue. Detached are wood most often.
Personally Id rather have brick.
You can have a brick skin on a timberframed house in NZ.Terrace and town houses are normally brick because of the noise issue. Detached are wood most often.
Personally Id rather have brick.
Might have to use imported bricks.
As you can also have good insulation, if you specify it on a new build, beyond any codes.
Of course a consideration in NZ is the ever present possibility of earthquakes, such that "lighter" forms of construction can be of advantage, in terms of safety and rebuilding.
Having said that, NZ has had a scandal in recent years, with timber not properly treated, or of standard, used in housebuilding.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff