Plane craziness on Radio 4 this morning.
Discussion
s1962a said:
Recall hearing on the radio this morning that the US don't have these kind of checks for their domestic flights (i.e. removing shoes). If they don't deem it necessary for them, why do we have to go through it?
International flights have more people on them and the planes are bigger. Hence they are more likely to be targeted. I flew to/from the Canaries from Gatwick and there was no requirement to remove shoes for security on the way out or the way back.mrmr96 said:
Zod said:
mrmr96 said:
Zod said:
bob1179 said:
As Pothole has said, the 'terrorists' have won. You can't drive up to the airport, you have to be held up for hours at screening it is a bloody nightmare. As someone who flies on a regular basis, it is nothing short of a massive inconvinience and makes a pain in the arse journey even more miserable.
If we must have this sort of security, we could do well to take a leaf out of the Israeli book. They aim to get you through check in, security, immigration and into the departure lounge bar within thirty minutes.
A great example is Heathrow T5 or Manchester T2. When it is busy, the throngs queuing to get through screening is huge, hundreds of people packed into a small space getting frustrated, hot and annoyed. It is also a perfect place to set off a nice little bomb that would cause chaos and panic throughout the airline industry. These sorts of bottle necks are not permitted at Ben Gurion Airport or anywhere else. A simple and efficient security system would eliminate this.
We need to profile and pick people that fit that profile. Not letting a seventy year old OAP take his bottle of brandy through security because 'it is a security risk', or having to carry all your liquids in a plastic bag, which if you don't have you must be a threat to airline security is ridiculous.
Obviously all of this would require a modicum of common sense, which neither the UK and especially the US lack.
prticularly when you can stock up on glass bottles, nail scissors, razor blades and all manner of other potential weapons in Duty Free (assuming you arrive hours early in order to have time to shop).If we must have this sort of security, we could do well to take a leaf out of the Israeli book. They aim to get you through check in, security, immigration and into the departure lounge bar within thirty minutes.
A great example is Heathrow T5 or Manchester T2. When it is busy, the throngs queuing to get through screening is huge, hundreds of people packed into a small space getting frustrated, hot and annoyed. It is also a perfect place to set off a nice little bomb that would cause chaos and panic throughout the airline industry. These sorts of bottle necks are not permitted at Ben Gurion Airport or anywhere else. A simple and efficient security system would eliminate this.
We need to profile and pick people that fit that profile. Not letting a seventy year old OAP take his bottle of brandy through security because 'it is a security risk', or having to carry all your liquids in a plastic bag, which if you don't have you must be a threat to airline security is ridiculous.
Obviously all of this would require a modicum of common sense, which neither the UK and especially the US lack.
mrmr96 said:
Zod said:
mrmr96 said:
Zod said:
bob1179 said:
As Pothole has said, the 'terrorists' have won. You can't drive up to the airport, you have to be held up for hours at screening it is a bloody nightmare. As someone who flies on a regular basis, it is nothing short of a massive inconvinience and makes a pain in the arse journey even more miserable.
If we must have this sort of security, we could do well to take a leaf out of the Israeli book. They aim to get you through check in, security, immigration and into the departure lounge bar within thirty minutes.
A great example is Heathrow T5 or Manchester T2. When it is busy, the throngs queuing to get through screening is huge, hundreds of people packed into a small space getting frustrated, hot and annoyed. It is also a perfect place to set off a nice little bomb that would cause chaos and panic throughout the airline industry. These sorts of bottle necks are not permitted at Ben Gurion Airport or anywhere else. A simple and efficient security system would eliminate this.
We need to profile and pick people that fit that profile. Not letting a seventy year old OAP take his bottle of brandy through security because 'it is a security risk', or having to carry all your liquids in a plastic bag, which if you don't have you must be a threat to airline security is ridiculous.
Obviously all of this would require a modicum of common sense, which neither the UK and especially the US lack.
prticularly when you can stock up on glass bottles, nail scissors, razor blades and all manner of other potential weapons in Duty Free (assuming you arrive hours early in order to have time to shop).If we must have this sort of security, we could do well to take a leaf out of the Israeli book. They aim to get you through check in, security, immigration and into the departure lounge bar within thirty minutes.
A great example is Heathrow T5 or Manchester T2. When it is busy, the throngs queuing to get through screening is huge, hundreds of people packed into a small space getting frustrated, hot and annoyed. It is also a perfect place to set off a nice little bomb that would cause chaos and panic throughout the airline industry. These sorts of bottle necks are not permitted at Ben Gurion Airport or anywhere else. A simple and efficient security system would eliminate this.
We need to profile and pick people that fit that profile. Not letting a seventy year old OAP take his bottle of brandy through security because 'it is a security risk', or having to carry all your liquids in a plastic bag, which if you don't have you must be a threat to airline security is ridiculous.
Obviously all of this would require a modicum of common sense, which neither the UK and especially the US lack.
The rules have been a nonsense ever since they were implemented. Each person can take 100ml of liquid per container through security, what is to stop 10 people each taking 100ml each through and meeting up airside to pool resources? And as has been previously pointed out, not only can you buy as many (glass) bottles of spirits airside they even supply them duty free! Perhaps there should be a Scapyard Challenge type competition, who can make the best bomb only using items for sale at the Heathrow Duty Free shop...
s1962a said:
Recall hearing on the radio this morning that the US don't have these kind of checks for their domestic flights (i.e. removing shoes). If they don't deem it necessary for them, why do we have to go through it?
I took a very short internal flight in the US a couple of weeks ago from a small airport and the security checks were just the same as for an international flight. Laptop out, shoes off etc.mrmr96 said:
s1962a said:
Recall hearing on the radio this morning that the US don't have these kind of checks for their domestic flights (i.e. removing shoes). If they don't deem it necessary for them, why do we have to go through it?
International flights have more people on them and the planes are bigger. Hence they are more likely to be targeted. I flew to/from the Canaries from Gatwick and there was no requirement to remove shoes for security on the way out or the way back.
Pothole said:
bra bombers = chaos at the security recruitment companies more than the airport...
'they' have won, helped by our sensationalist media and stupid politicians
You can take rocks in hand luggage...and paper...but not scissors.
So how the hell do we play? 'they' have won, helped by our sensationalist media and stupid politicians
You can take rocks in hand luggage...and paper...but not scissors.
Taking all of the fun out of air travel.
paper, scissors, stones . . .
Edited by Lost_BMW on Wednesday 27th October 18:24
This kind of thing is what Bruce Schneier has been saying for a long time. Most of the security precautions brought in as a response to specific threats, and are what he calls security theatre - they are intended to look like something effective, even though in reality they don't add much at all to the overall security situation.
His site and blog are well worth a read, as he speaks a great deal of sense.
His site and blog are well worth a read, as he speaks a great deal of sense.
at everything.thinfourth2 said:
RYH64E said:
Perhaps there should be a Scapyard Challenge type competition, who can make the best bomb only using items for sale at the Heathrow Duty Free shop...
Bottle of hi strength alcohol, rag, lighter = Molitov cocktail Larry Dickman said:
thinfourth2 said:
RYH64E said:
Perhaps there should be a Scapyard Challenge type competition, who can make the best bomb only using items for sale at the Heathrow Duty Free shop...
Bottle of hi strength alcohol, rag, lighter = Molitov cocktail Flintstone said:
Larry Dickman said:
thinfourth2 said:
RYH64E said:
Perhaps there should be a Scapyard Challenge type competition, who can make the best bomb only using items for sale at the Heathrow Duty Free shop...
Bottle of hi strength alcohol, rag, lighter = Molitov cocktail Larry Dickman said:
thinfourth2 said:
RYH64E said:
Perhaps there should be a Scapyard Challenge type competition, who can make the best bomb only using items for sale at the Heathrow Duty Free shop...
Bottle of hi strength alcohol, rag, lighter = Molitov cocktail What I still don't get is why the intense security focus on airports and airlines? Getting on a ferry- almost nothing. Likewise trains and undergrounds, we've seen that attacks there cause chaos, deaths and destruction.
As said before on here aiming at key points of the road network, add in a few key rail interchanges and the country would grind to a halt. Add in a vehicle bomb aimed at an airport for good effect, though perhaps not Glasgow as you'd get t
tted by some Jock desperate to get to Malaga. 
If they had real intent it would have been done imo.
As said before on here aiming at key points of the road network, add in a few key rail interchanges and the country would grind to a halt. Add in a vehicle bomb aimed at an airport for good effect, though perhaps not Glasgow as you'd get t
tted by some Jock desperate to get to Malaga. If they had real intent it would have been done imo.
F i F said:
What I still don't get is why the intense security focus on airports and airlines? Getting on a ferry- almost nothing. Likewise trains and undergrounds, we've seen that attacks there cause chaos, deaths and destruction.
As said before on here aiming at key points of the road network, add in a few key rail interchanges and the country would grind to a halt. Add in a vehicle bomb aimed at an airport for good effect, though perhaps not Glasgow as you'd get ttted by some Jock desperate to get to Malaga.
If they had real intent it would have been done imo.
^^ "security theatre - they are intended to look like something effective, even though in reality they don't add much at all to the overall security situation"As said before on here aiming at key points of the road network, add in a few key rail interchanges and the country would grind to a halt. Add in a vehicle bomb aimed at an airport for good effect, though perhaps not Glasgow as you'd get t
tted by some Jock desperate to get to Malaga. If they had real intent it would have been done imo.
the mere fact that we're discussing it would justify the measures to some in government. As long as they're seen to be reacting, and keeping us all in a suitable state of panic, the control holds.
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