75% of Incapacity Benefit claimants FAIL new test

[TankRizzo]

I browse the moneysavingexpert forums from time to time, and the amount of people who say they've just been tested and have "failed" their medical is huge.

Um, no...you've passed your medical!

[hornetrider]

TankRizzo said:

I browse the moneysavingexpert forums from time to time, and the amount of people who say they've just been tested and have "failed" their medical is huge.

Um, no...you've passed your medical!

Indeed. Are these people not pleased they can work?

[elster]

hornetrider said:

Eric Mc said:

And I think you will find there is quite a bit of disquiet about those who are being employed as Incapacity Benefit Assessors

http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk/latest-news2/news-...

Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 27th October 11:38

From your linked article, Eric.

Article said:

Health professionals trained to carry out assessments of disabled people claiming benefits “do not know the first thing about disability”, according to ex-National Health Service (NHS) staff.

Nurses, doctors and physiotherapists whose job it is to assess disabled people across the country for Disability Living Allowance and Employment Support Allowance (previously Incapacity Benefit) are massively under-qualified for their roles, former NHS employees allege.

Teresa White*, who used to be a NHS nursing manager, told Disability Now: “At the moment there are adverts in the nursing press for benefits assessors and I know that nurses applying for these roles will have had barely any formal training on disability.

So a 'nursing manager' (whatever that is) is concerned fully qualified Doctors, Nurses and Physios are unable to assess if someone can hold a pen or walk a certain distance?

Okay.

Well I happen to know that despite being a fully qualified District Nurse, my mrs would have had to go on a four week assessing training course before working supervised, then finally on her own.

I would have thought the people qualified for that would be an occupational therapist, not a nurse who has no degree in the subject.

[hornetrider]

elster said:

hornetrider said:

Eric Mc said:

And I think you will find there is quite a bit of disquiet about those who are being employed as Incapacity Benefit Assessors

http://www.disabilitynow.org.uk/latest-news2/news-...

Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 27th October 11:38

From your linked article, Eric.

Article said:

Health professionals trained to carry out assessments of disabled people claiming benefits “do not know the first thing about disability”, according to ex-National Health Service (NHS) staff.

Nurses, doctors and physiotherapists whose job it is to assess disabled people across the country for Disability Living Allowance and Employment Support Allowance (previously Incapacity Benefit) are massively under-qualified for their roles, former NHS employees allege.

Teresa White*, who used to be a NHS nursing manager, told Disability Now: “At the moment there are adverts in the nursing press for benefits assessors and I know that nurses applying for these roles will have had barely any formal training on disability.

So a 'nursing manager' (whatever that is) is concerned fully qualified Doctors, Nurses and Physios are unable to assess if someone can hold a pen or walk a certain distance?

Okay.

Well I happen to know that despite being a fully qualified District Nurse, my mrs would have had to go on a four week assessing training course before working supervised, then finally on her own.

I would have thought the people qualified for that would be an occupational therapist, not a nurse who has no degree in the subject.

My wife has a degree. Maybe they employ occupational therapists as well, who knows? The point is that there are minimum standards for the job (professional qualification) and specific assessment training prior to being allowed to assess claimants.

[elster]

hornetrider said:

My wife has a degree. Maybe they employ occupational therapists as well, who knows? The point is that there are minimum standards for the job (professional qualification) and specific assessment training prior to being allowed to assess claimants.

I don't know if they use OTs, but this is the only part of the nursing sector who are qualified to asses someone's physical and mental ability in being able to do anything. Whether other people do it, more than likely, doesn't mean they are actually qualified to do it.

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

[Soovy]

hornetrider said:

TankRizzo said:

I browse the moneysavingexpert forums from time to time, and the amount of people who say they've just been tested and have "failed" their medical is huge.

Um, no...you've passed your medical!

Indeed. Are these people not pleased they can work?

Exactly the point.

They're disappointed they've passed a medical.


Change has come at long last.

[hornetrider]

elster said:

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

As I mentioned, there is specific training once the start with Atos - and these people are DOCTORS ffs. All they are assessing is if someone can walk from a to b, hold a pen, type a bit. fk sake, that's all I do in my office job.

We have people in our office on permanent crutches, in a wheelchair, all able to work and contribute to society.

This is long overdue imo.

[JagLover]

hornetrider said:

elster said:

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

As I mentioned, there is specific training once the start with Atos - and these people are DOCTORS ffs. All they are assessing is if someone can walk from a to b, hold a pen, type a bit. fk sake, that's all I do in my office job.

We have people in our office on permanent crutches, in a wheelchair, all able to work and contribute to society.

This is long overdue imo.

Agreed


There has been a shift in emphasis from assessing do people have an injury or disability, many do, to are they capable of at least some form of work. Of the 3m or so on incapacity benefit the numbers who are truly incapable of work of ANY kind are likely to be small.

[blindswelledrat]

A quick scan of that suggests it's an intelligence test as opposed to a genuine medical one.
FOr example- you go for a test to see if you are fit for work, wanting to play the system.
The doctor (or whoever) says- "Can you stand up and touch your toes and walk over there please", to which anyone with even half an ounce of commonsense would reply "No, I can't. TOo much pain and my legs are as good as paste" as opposed to leaping out of your chair and star jumping yoru way across the room before stopping and sayin "Oooops, st. Its a fair cop"

[Eric Mc]

hornetrider said:

elster said:

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

As I mentioned, there is specific training once the start with Atos - and these people are DOCTORS ffs. All they are assessing is if someone can walk from a to b, hold a pen, type a bit. fk sake, that's all I do in my office job.

We have people in our office on permanent crutches, in a wheelchair, all able to work and contribute to society.

This is long overdue imo.

And how do they assess a person's mental condition?

[TrevorH]

So you have trouble walking, or a seriously bad back. If you have transport, what's to stop you doing a desk job? (Provided there are desk jobs available, of course)

[hornetrider]

Eric Mc said:

hornetrider said:

elster said:

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

As I mentioned, there is specific training once the start with Atos - and these people are DOCTORS ffs. All they are assessing is if someone can walk from a to b, hold a pen, type a bit. fk sake, that's all I do in my office job.

We have people in our office on permanent crutches, in a wheelchair, all able to work and contribute to society.

This is long overdue imo.

And how do they assess a person's mental condition?

fk knows, do I look like a doctor to you?!

[Sonic]

Soovy said:

hornetrider said:

TankRizzo said:

I browse the moneysavingexpert forums from time to time, and the amount of people who say they've just been tested and have "failed" their medical is huge.

Um, no...you've passed your medical!

Indeed. Are these people not pleased they can work?

Exactly the point.

They're disappointed they've passed a medical.


Change has come at long last.

I utterly agree with the sentiment, but this is how i imagine you, Soovy.

[Deva Link]

Eric Mc said:

And about 80% of Appeals succeed.

The new tests (which were introduced by Labour over a year ago) are total rubbish. They are administered by non-medically qualified individuals (often foreign who don't speak English very well) and take no account of mental health problems at all.

...and the assessors are bonused for every case where they find the applicant fit.

[JFReturns]

I worked for seven years at the DWP on Incapacity Benefit. From personal experience, I would say over half were not genuine claimants, they just took IB over Jobseekers as it meant they did not have to sign on. Instead they just claimed back pain or depression (the two easiest ailments to get a Doctors certificate) and sent a claim form in.

When it came to the medical assessment, it was easier to fake depression than back pain. I mean these people were so stupid, they would drive to the medical centre and walk through the doors and THEN start limping, as if the assessors couldn't look through a window.

I welcome these harsh measures, as I have had to speak to those genuine claimants (mainly self employed labourers) who were in real trouble and couldn't get anything when these wasters could.

[hornetrider]

Deva Link said:

Eric Mc said:

And about 80% of Appeals succeed.

The new tests (which were introduced by Labour over a year ago) are total rubbish. They are administered by non-medically qualified individuals (often foreign who don't speak English very well) and take no account of mental health problems at all.

...and the assessors are bonused for every case where they find the applicant fit.

Sauce?

[DieselGriff]

I feel very lucky with the flexibility my employer has shown with regards my illness and employment, but I do wonder if smaller firms could afford it.

After my illness struck I was 9 months out of work, I received full pay for 1 month and half pay for 2 which is pretty generous, then I was dependant on the benefits system into which I'd paid for about 20 years.

Now I work (and get paid for) 4 days a week simply because I do not have the stamina to work 3 days in a row, this is quite common with my condition according to my consultant and my occupational health doctor tells me that this may never improve.

When I had my incapacity benefit assessment this factor was never asked about (at the time I was still having to sleep about 12 hours a night to appear relatively normal during the day), yes my short term memory was okay, I couldn't (and still can't) write (using a pen), and I could walk about a mile (although this would cause me to sleep more that night).

I'm lucky my employer still considered me useful but I would not like to have to search for new employment right now, maybe in a couple of years it will be okay but right now I wouldn't stand a chance and I wouldn't be entitled to any benefit either.

[Kermit power]

Engineer1 said:

People withdrawing applications doesn't mean they are trying it on, my gran never applied for half the benefits she could have because it was too much trouble or because she felt it was begging.

Presumably your gran and people like her just don't apply in the first place? Rather different to someone going through the hassle of applying and then withdrawing the application.

The thing I don't get is how crap an actor you need to be to prove that you can't walk, bend over or sit down??

Fair enough, if you're trying to prove you are capable to do a physical job it's a test you could fail, but I don't get this?

Doctor: Please show me how close you can get to touching your toes.

Me (Ramrod straight): This close.

[Sticks.]

That's assuming everyone who gives up claiing did so because they were fraudulent. I suspect there are people who, being genuinely ill, have enough cr4p to deal with without extra hassle and just decide to manage without. Some actors, yes, just not all.

Btw Dieselgriff, I appreciate what you mean about feeling lucky but I'd guess your employer sees the skills and experience you bring to the workplace too.

[DieselGriff]

Sticks. said:

Btw Dieselgriff, I appreciate what you mean about feeling lucky but I'd guess your employer sees the skills and experience you bring to the workplace too.

Absolutely, however the point I was trying to make is that it is one thing to convince an existing employer who has appreciated your work, but another to convince a potentially new employer, and I think some people may struggle here.