75% of Incapacity Benefit claimants FAIL new test

[Globulator]

DieselGriff said:

I'm lucky my employer still considered me useful but I would not like to have to search for new employment right now, maybe in a couple of years it will be okay but right now I wouldn't stand a chance and I wouldn't be entitled to any benefit either.

I think in your case it would become fairly clear (quite soon into any interview) that you were a trier and that you were serious about the job.

I suspect however for each genuine claim there are 19 others who have no right to claim.
Remember that Labour pushed a lot of people onto invalidity to hide the unemployment figures - so many many able bodied people will be on invalidity just to make the numbers look better.

[Sticks.]

DieselGriff said:

Sticks. said:

Btw Dieselgriff, I appreciate what you mean about feeling lucky but I'd guess your employer sees the skills and experience you bring to the workplace too.

Absolutely, however the point I was trying to make is that it is one thing to convince an existing employer who has appreciated your work, but another to convince a potentially new employer, and I think some people may struggle here.

Agreed, esp as there's likely to be more people applying. Because of that although it's right to do something about the situation, I don't think the govt will save as much money as it hopes. If 80% of appeals are successful, that'll cost admon, and for those put onto ESA, they'll get less help finding work, looking for jobs in an ever-more competitive market place, and with little or no training available.... The end result will be the govt gets to say it's achieved something. If there were plenty of jobs, yes, but there won't be for a while.

Hope you soon get a bit better mate.

[Ozzie Osmond]

It seems to me highly significant that so many of the people claiming Incapacity Benefit just happen to be living in areas of high unemployment....

[markbigears]

i've 2 cousins, one has "sight problems", but somehow manages to see his mobile phone? The other is just, well ... fat. He did have a job a few years ago but got made redundant.
Managed to get on the social and been there for years now. Both have council houses. I hope with this change in law i'll see them picking peas in a field as I pass them on the train to work.

[Eric Mc]

hornetrider said:

Eric Mc said:

hornetrider said:

elster said:

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

As I mentioned, there is specific training once the start with Atos - and these people are DOCTORS ffs. All they are assessing is if someone can walk from a to b, hold a pen, type a bit. fk sake, that's all I do in my office job.

We have people in our office on permanent crutches, in a wheelchair, all able to work and contribute to society.

This is long overdue imo.

And how do they assess a person's mental condition?

fk knows, do I look like a doctor to you?!

That's the problem. To assess a persons capability to carry out a wide range of tasks requires quite a detailed amount of medical and psychological knowledge - something that a basic nurse and a quick course on how to fill in a few forms won't provide.

[hornetrider]

Wide range of tasks... such as walking to a desk, sitting down, and typing on a keyboard?

[bucksmanuk]

I did hear of someone in the Oxfordshire region, so desperate to stay on incapacity benefit, although he shouldn’t have been, that he was witnessed piling laxatives down his neck outside the offices prior to an appointment to discuss his case. . When asked why he couldn’t work, he managed to time it nicely so he crapped himself big style in the DSS offices. He was signed off there and then for some time longer.
I know a couple who fought like crazy to have their son diagnosed as autistic so he has to go to a special school, and of course they receive more benefits. He just seems quiet to me, and others.....

[Dixie68]

Eric Mc said:

That's the problem. To assess a persons capability to carry out a wide range of tasks requires quite a detailed amount of medical and psychological knowledge - something that a basic nurse and a quick course on how to fill in a few forms won't provide.

If it's that hard to spot then maybe they're not so severe that they can't work? Just a thought.

[Eric Mc]

Dixie68 said:

Eric Mc said:

That's the problem. To assess a persons capability to carry out a wide range of tasks requires quite a detailed amount of medical and psychological knowledge - something that a basic nurse and a quick course on how to fill in a few forms won't provide.

If it's that hard to spot then maybe they're not so severe that they can't work? Just a thought.

Psychological problems are often EXTREMELY hard to spot (although they sometimes atren't). But as I keep saying, just because someone is passed fit to work is no guarantee that any employer will want to employ them.

[hornetrider]

Eric Mc said:

But as I keep saying, just because someone is passed fit to work is no guarantee that any employer will want to employ them.

Very true, but if they're fit for work then they shouldn't be in Incapacity Benefit should they?

[Eric Mc]

hornetrider said:

Eric Mc said:

But as I keep saying, just because someone is passed fit to work is no guarantee that any employer will want to employ them.

Very true, but if they're fit for work then they shouldn't be in Incapacity Benefit should they?

No - but they will just be switched to some other benefit.

Although, as is already a fact, many who have been passed as fit to work have genuinely not been fit. I heard of a case earlier this week where a person was passed fit and within a month was dead.

[mondeoman]

hornetrider said:

Eric Mc said:

But as I keep saying, just because someone is passed fit to work is no guarantee that any employer will want to employ them.

Very true, but if they're fit for work then they shouldn't be in Incapacity Benefit should they?

Wot e said ^^

Sorry Eric, there may well be individual cases (and personal in your case) that aren't exactly what you might want, but the problem is so large that simply knowing that 860,000 applied for it, then over 600,000 withdrew their applications or failed is great news.

Thats a massive save for UK PLC. And its just what we need now. At £95/week, thats 600,000 x £95 x 52 = £3billion a year - I'll have some of that thank you!

[hornetrider]

Eric Mc said:

hornetrider said:

Eric Mc said:

But as I keep saying, just because someone is passed fit to work is no guarantee that any employer will want to employ them.

Very true, but if they're fit for work then they shouldn't be in Incapacity Benefit should they?

No - but they will just be switched to some other benefit.

Or pull their belt in and adjust.

[Globulator]

Eric Mc said:

Although, as is already a fact, many who have been passed as fit to work have genuinely not been fit. I heard of a case earlier this week where a person was passed fit and within a month was dead.

Lot's of apparently fit people drop dead, the fact one was on benefits doesn't change that.

[Jasandjules]

Regrettably I have knowledge of a couple of different people who have very, very bad health. Both of them have now given up dealing with the DSS as they simply cannot cope with it. In fact they had to go through something each year - though I have now idea how the DSS expected someone with a missing limb to regrow it annually... YET I have no doubt that there will be plenty of lying lazy slobs who will get their "bad backs" approved for Incapacity Benefit.

[Pvapour]

hornetrider said:

Deva Link said:

Eric Mc said:

And about 80% of Appeals succeed.

The new tests (which were introduced by Labour over a year ago) are total rubbish. They are administered by non-medically qualified individuals (often foreign who don't speak English very well) and take no account of mental health problems at all.

...and the assessors are bonused for every case where they find the applicant fit.

Sauce?

[mph1977]

elster said:

hornetrider said:

My wife has a degree. Maybe they employ occupational therapists as well, who knows? The point is that there are minimum standards for the job (professional qualification) and specific assessment training prior to being allowed to assess claimants.

I don't know if they use OTs, but this is the only part of the nursing sector who are qualified to asses someone's physical and mental ability in being able to do anything. Whether other people do it, more than likely, doesn't mean they are actually qualified to do it.

I think the point I am trying to make is that a lot of Doctors who do the assessments at present, are not au fait with what is the minimum requirements.

Edited by elster on Wednesday 27th October 13:04

Occupational Therapists are NOT Nurses, they are one of the 13 HPC professions.

Both Nurses and OTs could be used in the assessor role but both would require additional training and education to do so.

or once again is an 'expert' opinion being passed by someone who does not know the difference between an Occupational Therapist and Someone who has a Occupational Health / Occupational Medicine qualification.

Conducting a a physical examination, obtaining health history and assessing Activities of Daily living are skills all Health Professionals should have - the exact balance of experience and depth of skills and knowledge depend on the profession.

Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 28th October 08:37

[Jasandjules]

Call me picky but I rather think that the people assessing these "new tests" which have been set to save costs, are going to find reasons to "fail" people, as that is pretty much their remit is it not?

Then of course they hope that the really ill won't have the energy to go through the appeal process too...

So realistically what we have is, as I said above, people who are genuinely ill being found "fit and well" whilst those who are not ill at all but simply making it up, will know the system and get their money....

[tinman0]

I do find it odd that many "ill" people seem to think that it's unseemly to be tested so they can be assessed for free cash.

All society is asking is that if you need free cash is for an assessment to be made. Yet some people feel that that is too much to ask of them. Too ill to be assessed because it offends their sensibilities.

[Flintstone]

Deva Link said:

...and the assessors are bonused for every case where they find the applicant fit.

Bonused?


No such word.