UK Honeymoon Couple Attacked in S.A.

[Pints]

Traveller said:

In SA, a simple rule to remember, you either the hunter or the prey, as a tourist you have a nice big target in the middle of your forehead. Going into Gugulethu, Tembisa, Soweto or Hillbrow without knowing diddly squat about the place will be a life shorting experience. SA is not for the faint hearted. Violence is endemic.

People in the UK complain about crime, wait till you have seen the aftermath of a farm invasion, daughters raped in front of parents, wife raped and shot, husband tied up and shot after watching the subhumans toy with his family, and it not even making the news. The indescribable horror of listening to a white child protection officer having to explain to a black African mother that her 1 year old daughter has been raped, and seeing the effect it has on both of them. This has nothing to do with racism or apartheid, it is barbarism.

South Africa, both politically and socially is becoming the next Nigeria, rich in mineral wealth but due to corruption, nepotism and bad leadership will fail its most vulnerable. The moneyed elite have merely changed colour, it is not black and white any more, it is have and have not. Look at the leader and wonder what his less sophisticated acolytes are like.

I have family members in the ANC, and the grass roots can see it, but the upper echelons don't care and are too busy filling their pockets.

Edited by Traveller on Tuesday 16th November 22:23

All very true. Although it's worth pointing out that the leader is certainly far from sophisticated. Not even a GCSE equivalent education and yet he runs the economic powerhouse of Africa.

[madala]

.....it is certainly sad to see SA start to take on a similar mantle as Zimbabwe which was once known as the "Bread basket of Africa" but now is more than a basket case.....I am afraid most African countries are rife with corruption and nepotism let alone awful tribalism.

[Pints]

Jasandjules said:

Jimbeaux said:

Jasandjules said:

My only question here is why did they let the bloke go (a fellow who can ID them) then kill the wife?

Are you thinking a setup by him to kill his wife for some reason?

Well, the bottom line is this:

He was attacked by two guys who were going to rape/kill his wife. They did so. YET they let him go without a scratch? Why if they were going to rob and kill, did they not just kill him too?? Surely he defended his new wife in some way? Is it not a lot easier for them that way?

Now, someone above said he was quite wealthy, so I guess my next question is was he wearing nice clothes/watch/shoes? Why were these not taken?

Basically, I don't understand why some people who were going to rob him and presumably rape and murder his wife, let him go unharmed? It doesn't make much sense to me. It is not exactly a nice area full of lovely executives with their 2.4 children, mortgage and cars is it now? I mean, South Africa that I know (by way of talking to people who have lived there, I've never been) is that robbery/burglary tends to occur at the end of a gun, and quite often people are shot dead during crimes.

Your post seems to suggest that you assume these creatures act and think like you or I. This is the problem with the view the civilised world has of Africa.

You expect them to treat elders and children a certain way, because we do. You expect them to rationalise their actions and reactions based on a set of principles or morals, as we do. You expect them to have a sense of social responsibilities, as we do. You expect them to consider and act on the medium to long-term implications of economics, farming and social structure, as we do.

You cannot drag them kicking and screaming into the year of the fruitbat, or demand they "learn" to be civilised. You can take one and call him the president, but don't expect democracy to exist just because you have allowed them to vote. Simply because they wear jeans and trainers does not make them like you or I.

The savagery of Africa has existed long before they learned to hate the white colonial, and will continue to thrive long after they have wiped the white invaders from their continent. These are the savages of Africa and the power, violence and cruelty they possess, in all its forms, on the continent they call home, is beyond the ken of you or I.

[Mermaid]

Pints said:

..

The savagery of Africa & other places has existed long before they learned to hate the invaders or white colonial, and will continue to thrive long after they have wiped the white invaders from their continent. These are the savages of Africa and elsewhere and the power, violence and cruelty they possess, in all its forms, on the continent they call home, is beyond the ken of you or I.

Edited slightly.

Another time,another place it's the old familiar tale

[andymadmak]

Mermaid said:

Pints said:

..

The savagery of Africa & other places has existed long before they learned to hate the invaders or white colonial, and will continue to thrive long after they have wiped the white invaders from their continent. These are the savages of Africa and elsewhere and the power, violence and cruelty they possess, in all its forms, on the continent they call home, is beyond the ken of you or I.

Edited slightly.

Another time,another place it's the old familiar tale

I'm confused by why you felt the need to make that edit.
This thread is about SA is it not? That cruelty exists elsewhere is not in doubt, but what relevance is that to this thread?
Or is it, as I suspect, just more PC bks. OOOOOOOhhhh we mustn't criticise these people cos they are black and they might think we are only doing it cos we are racists?
Frankly, its this kind of pussy footing around the truth and soft soaping of the issues that lets people like Zuma and Mugabe destroy the once thriving economies of the countries they run.
A VERY good friend of mine is a black Saffer from Jo'burg and he is absolutely adamant that Africa needed AT LEAST another 50 years of "white rule" before being handed over to the blacks. He says that whilst things were stty in SA under the whites, there was at least a rule of law, and a semblance of a relatavely uncorrupt civil service. Now thats all gone in a flurry of nepotism and cronyism. Education is no longer the way to the top, only who you know and how much you can pay to who you can bribe.
What was built by the whites in terms of institutions and systems and infrastructure is slowly being destroyed.
If you listened to him on the radio you'd swear he was the very worst kind of frothing white supremacist Saffer, but he's blacker than black and says he just tells it like he see it. He's also a very highly skilled engineer, so he's hardly thick!
Whilst I don't agree with everything he says, I do think that the developed world is constrained by PC induced feelings of colonial guilt when it comes to sorting out Africa. That chattering class self flagellation for the actions of our ancestors will in fact lead to the decline of Africa, rather than it's enrichment.
I was in Shanghai last month talking to some of my Chinese colleagues and the question of the increasing influence of the Chinese in Africa came up. A German bloke in the same meeting was heard to say " lets see if you guys have any more luck sorting them out than we did! - at least when you fail they'll have somebody else to blame for their plight for the next 100 years instead of the white man" To which our Chinese hosts replied " As long as they work and we get what we need there will be no problems...."
I fear Africa will stay on the bottom of the pile for many years to come.

Edited by andymadmak on Wednesday 17th November 09:53

[DonkeyApple]

Jimbeaux said:

I can take it until it hurts,

Deviating somewhat from the original topic aren't we?

However, I respect your honesty.

[Deva Link]

DonkeyApple said:

Jimbeaux said:

I can take it until it hurts,

Deviating somewhat from the original topic aren't we?

However, I respect your honesty.

If he'd share his code word, then people would know when to back off.

[fido]

andymadmak said:

A German bloke in the same meeting was heard to say " lets see if you guys have any more luck sorting them out than we did!

Most ironic, given that the Germans were probably the best of the colonisers, especially when compared to the barbarity of the other European powers.

[JagLover]

The basic problem with Africa is that it never had a tradition of civilisation or the unitary state before the west came.

The difference with the far east, which had nation states dating back centuries long before western contact with the area, is very marked.

The Africans were living in tribal societies in many cases not much different from when our ancestors left the continent to colonise the rest of the world.

[Ayahuasca]

JagLover said:

The basic problem with Africa is that it never had a tradition of civilisation or the unitary state before the west came.

The difference with the far east, which had nation states dating back centuries long before western contact with the area, is very marked.

The Africans were living in tribal societies in many cases not much different from when our ancestors left the continent to colonise the rest of the world.

Nooo, the black Africans were living in a tropical Arcadian paradise before the evil whites showed up and wrecked the place; there were ancient cultures in Zimbabwe, Benin and probably more places that I haven't heard of, I am sure there were; there must have been. Of course, in non-black Africa north of the Sahara things worked out much better.

[Digga]

Just for the record. Prior to white, Western European colonists arriving to do their thing, Middle Eastern (Omani etc.) slave traders were already there - working with local, tribal collaborators - taking salves out of the continent via Zanzibar and other of their colonies.

[Ayahuasca]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Slave - from the same root as Slavic. European post-Roman empires were built on eastern (Slavic) slave labour. Anglo-Saxon England also ran on slave labour (pre Norman-introduced feudalism and serfs, )except that their slaves were normally Welsh. The world 'Welsh' has the same root as 'Slave' in Old English. Records show estates in the west, near the Welsh border kept many more slaves than the east.

[DonkeyApple]

Digga said:

Just for the record. Prior to white, Western European colonists arriving to do their thing, Middle Eastern (Omani etc.) slave traders were already there - working with local, tribal collaborators - taking salves out of the continent via Zanzibar and other of their colonies.

Prior to the Arabs were the Romans and Cathaginians, trading for slaves, salt and gold.

Interestingly, the most vocal of tribes demanding a return of land from white settlers in SA arrived in SA after the white settlers.

Africa is a mess and a sthole, let's not bother mincing words here and nothing is going to change it. There is no other continent where lethal savagery rests so closely under the surface. The person smiling at you today is the same person swinging a babies head into a wall tomorrow. The simmering brutality has no equal.

While the West goes all namby pamby the Chineses have gone in there and are stripping it bare like locusts.

[poo at Paul's]

Have to say I have an uneasy feeling about this story and the actions of several "involved" since it broke.

[Ayahuasca]

Brutal story. Reminds me of the Le Carre book /film 'The Constant Gardener'.

[audidoody]

There is more 'racism' between the black tribes in South Africa than anything the Whites could conjure up. The Zulus reckon they're a cut above everyone. Black on Black crime is horrific. The level of violence between the Zulus and Xhosas beats anything you've ever seen between the black and white races in South Africa.

Edited by audidoody on Wednesday 17th November 13:38

[Jimbeaux]

DonkeyApple said:

Jimbeaux said:

I can take it until it hurts,

Deviating somewhat from the original topic aren't we?

However, I respect your honesty.

OK, that's a good 'un.

[Jimbeaux]

Deva Link said:

DonkeyApple said:

Jimbeaux said:

I can take it until it hurts,

Deviating somewhat from the original topic aren't we?

However, I respect your honesty.

If he'd share his code word, then people would know when to back off.

[Jimbeaux]

JagLover said:

The basic problem with Africa is that it never had a tradition of civilisation or the unitary state before the west came.

The difference with the far east, which had nation states dating back centuries long before western contact with the area, is very marked.

The Africans were living in tribal societies in many cases not much different from when our ancestors left the continent to colonise the rest of the world.

I suspect the Chinese involvement will make no attempt at developing the civilzation of Africa, they are there to milk it and will force order only to that end IMO.

[Jimbeaux]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If you want to see a converstion freeze on a dime around here, mention that it was competing black tribes that captured and brought other blacks to the slave ships waiting off shore. That often goes over like a fart in church.