Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well if we only made people behave then we could terminate 99% of the criminal justice system and all its ancillaries and save billions that way too.BUT: The point is, they only get the money for a second. Then we get it back. We could give Andy Capp a nice Patek watch, on condition that he immediately handed it back. Sure, he'd have held it in his hands and 'enjoyed' it for a second, but it doesn't devalue our currency by letting him do it with money.
groan said:
BUT: The point is, they only get the money for a second. Then we get it back. We could give Andy Capp a nice Patek watch, on condition that he immediately handed it back. Sure, he'd have held it in his hands and 'enjoyed' it for a second, but it doesn't devalue our currency by letting him do it with money.
Schtopp!! Before you carry on with this NuLabourevisionist version of Economics ..you have not taken into account the opportunity cost i.e. that money could have gone to a productive part of the economy, or spent on education (so that our yoof aren't such ghastly f8ckers), health etc. - it has to be financed by taxes, government borrowing or plain ol' printing money. I shan't bother debating because it's so damn elementary but here's Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending
'Government expenditures that are not acquisition of goods and services, and instead just represent transfers of money, such as social security payments, are called transfer payments. Government spending can be financed by seigniorage, taxes, or government borrowing.'
It would be great if your ideas were correct because then the whole country could sit on it's ar3e on benefits with no adverse effects at all.
Edited by fido on Thursday 27th January 10:30
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Well if we only made people behave then we could terminate 99% of the criminal justice system and all the ancillaries and offshoots of misbehaviour and save billions that way too. It's reasonable to say that it's less of a waste of money keeping people alive than spending a fortune to keep them behaving/dealing with them when they don't. From the cost of security systems and guards to the cost of cops courts legal aid and judges, what does misbehaviour cost the UK annually? How many billions? Does anyone even know?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
...ah but that's Tory thinking. 'Saving' through cutbacks. Why not keep the 5% and make them productive? Although I accept if they all behaved as well as became productive we'd have to retrain and find productive alternatives for the 99% of law-linked people who would thereby be made redundant.
In their own subcultures they enforce discipline and conformity by pain. So we simply need to change the way we discipline them into productivity and behaviour, and how better than in the way they do it themselves and are used to? eg: "Yes we will continue to pay your Housing Benefit, but you and your family will be compelled to volunteer for our medical research into human pain tolerances"
groan said:
BUT: The point is, they only get the money for a second. Then we get it back.
We don't get all of it back though do we? Not if they've spent it on Chinese-made plasma tellies and ipods and the like. The other problem is that by over-taxing the productive part of the economy and giving the money to the unproductive part, you undermine the ability of the productive side to create wealth and jobs.groan said:
See all this money that goes to all these people on benefits.......what do you think happens to it?
Take housing benefit, for example. You (and I) pay our taxes and the money gets paid to Andy Capp as rent. Andy brings it to me. I spend it on a hundred goods and services and taxable events and things that need produced and even the bit I take home gets spent on other taxable events and things that need produced/distributed/etc etc. And lo and behold a gallon of petrol here and a packet of fags there and before you know where you are, it's all back with HMG again ready to be recycled again.
Every single penny that's handed out to the entire Capp tribe from John O'Groats to Lands End gets.....spent. And even the bit they spend on drugs filters back via indirect taxes on dealers' purchases.
What's the problem with this? The Capps aren't getting any money at all to KEEP. They're just conduits for tax re-entering the system to be spent on the goods and services you and I produce which makes us profits which we spend and on which we're taxed - as are those who benefit from our spending...ad infinitum.
in a system with less tax there is more incentive to earn!Take housing benefit, for example. You (and I) pay our taxes and the money gets paid to Andy Capp as rent. Andy brings it to me. I spend it on a hundred goods and services and taxable events and things that need produced and even the bit I take home gets spent on other taxable events and things that need produced/distributed/etc etc. And lo and behold a gallon of petrol here and a packet of fags there and before you know where you are, it's all back with HMG again ready to be recycled again.
Every single penny that's handed out to the entire Capp tribe from John O'Groats to Lands End gets.....spent. And even the bit they spend on drugs filters back via indirect taxes on dealers' purchases.
What's the problem with this? The Capps aren't getting any money at all to KEEP. They're just conduits for tax re-entering the system to be spent on the goods and services you and I produce which makes us profits which we spend and on which we're taxed - as are those who benefit from our spending...ad infinitum.
incentive increase productivity which increases exports!
goverment taxes have made the UK uncompetative in the global marketplace!
king arthur said:
groan said:
BUT: The point is, they only get the money for a second. Then we get it back.
We don't get all of it back though do we? Not if they've spent it on Chinese-made plasma tellies and ipods and the like. The other problem is that by over-taxing the productive part of the economy and giving the money to the unproductive part, you undermine the ability of the productive side to create wealth and jobs.
SplatSpeed said:
crankedup said:
SplatSpeed said:
crankedup said:
SplatSpeed said:
crankedup said:
NoelWatson said:
crankedup said:
NoelWatson said:
crankedup said:
NoelWatson said:
crankedup said:
Its difficult to find any organisation which are supporting this Governments monetary policies. Still they must be correct and on the right track if the Tories say so 
Labour and the World Banks got us into this mess and I can't see the current Government getting us out of it TBH.
Labour and the World Banks got us into this mess and I can't see the current Government getting us out of it TBH.
crankedup said:
Its difficult to find any organisation which are supporting this Governments monetary policies
Who is against it?crankedup said:
Still they must be correct and on the right track
Agreed, and out credit rating reflects thatcrankedup said:
Labour and the World Banks got us into this mess
Also bankers and consumerscrankedup said:
and I can't see the current Government getting us out of it TBH
It won't happen overnight, but then we had a decade long binge, so that is to be expectedhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350359/40...
te at the best of times full of rubbish and sensationalism. Mind you they say the ladies enjoy the paper apparently.are you scared that you don't have the brain power to resist the daily mail and turn into soovy?
the point they make is a valid one, people were moved off of the dole to incapacity benefits!
do you live in a bubble?
all i asked you to do was look at a newspaper, but your predjucices stop you. I am not scared of the guardian!
people have told me they were advised to move from long term unemployed to IB at the jobcentre!
frosted said:
Fittster said:
frosted said:
I'm not happy that I have to pay for any such people , especially single mums but , it's comforting to know that if anything happens to me or those people I care about they will not end up on the street
You willing to pay a lot more tax for the comfortable feeling?
The NHS is good.
crankedup said:
You live in Germany then!
Eh, no! But my money went in to the pocket of an Englishman who will spend it in this country. And I will sadly buy tons of expensive fuel to fill up Government coffers and support the wages of the fuel tanker drivers. And I'll be getting my car serviced at a UK dealership keeping staff gainfully employed. And......rog007 said:
Eh, no! But my money went in to the pocket of an Englishman who will spend it in this country. And I will sadly buy tons of expensive fuel to fill up Government coffers and support the wages of the fuel tanker drivers. And I'll be getting my car serviced at a UK dealership keeping staff gainfully employed. And......
Enjoy your new car, wherever it came from.
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