Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

[LongQ]

Blib said:

This is one of he many things that show how blinkered environmental campaigners can be. This is a quote from TB's article.

article said:

Friends of the Earth Waste Campaigner Julian Kirby said: “It’s true thousands of UK jobs can be created by reducing waste and boosting recycling - but much of that would go up in smoke if we listened to the rubbish spouted about the need for new incinerators.

And here's some nformation about the incinerators from the same article.

article said:

SITA UK also stressed that incinerators have to meet strict EU emissions limits and that they would only burn waste that could not be recycled.

These people seem to ignore the facts and follow their own knee-jerk narrative.

Fools.

The 'creating jobs' message, even if vaguely 'true', really means that whatever the 'product' is for which these jobs are created will cost more.

I have yet to see a company report that it will be able to operate more cheaply by creating a lot of jobs.

Take eolectricity generation for example. There have been claims that the 'renewables' industry could create 100,000 jobs. To do what?

On balance the policies promioted are to improve efficiency of electricity consumption. Over time one might suggest that improved efficiecy at point of consumptio will either result in reduced generation requirement or be balanced (more or less) by increase in demand to to, inter alia, population growth.

Adding 100k jobs to the cost base for the same level of output is unlikely to reduce costs - unless those jobs and all that previously existed in the industry are moved to a lower cost per head pay rate.

Maybe the jobs could be subsidiesd? How about transferring MPs and Civil Servants to those roles? Should be enough of them to fulfill the numbers and the savings could be significant compared to surrent salaries and pension expectations.

[martin84]

There does seem to be this assumption that anything which creates jobs is therefore a good idea. But if those extra jobs will only serve to bring the customer what they had before but at a higher cost then we'd rather them jobs were not created.

Tesco wouldn't triple their staff numbers because it'd triple their prices.

[Pointman]

Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman

[deeps]

Plans to errect EDF disturbines were formally rejected this week here In Burnham on sea, nobody wants the useless things.

http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2012/wind-farm-...

[turbobloke]

deeps said:

Plans to errect EDF disturbines were formally rejected this week here In Burnham on sea, nobody wants the useless things.

http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2012/wind-farm-...

Good news, we need more decisions like that.

Meanwhile, Johnny Ball has chosed to do an 'I told you so' routine over the Arch High Priest of Gaia getting it wrong.

http://www.johnnyball.co.uk/html/johnnysblog.html

[Apache]

Pointman said:

Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman

Not quite, these things are high maintenance, the gearboxes are under enormous pressures and fail often, sometimes with spectacular results. Maintaining them is a full time job for people with an an unusual combination of skills including heavy mech/electrical and climbing

[chris watton]

Apache said:

Pointman said:

Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman

Not quite, these things are high maintenance, the gearboxes are under enormous pressures and fail often, sometimes with spectacular results. Maintaining them is a full time job for people with an an unusual combination of skills including heavy mech/electrical and climbing

But if these windmills can only continue if they’re subsidised, does this mean that the maintenance crew, who keep these things in working order also survive by being subsidised, i.e. no profit?

What happens when the subsidies dry up (as they undoubtedly will) – who will pay to have the windmills serviced then? (same applies to solar panels)

[Apache]

chris watton said:

Apache said:

Pointman said:

Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman

Not quite, these things are high maintenance, the gearboxes are under enormous pressures and fail often, sometimes with spectacular results. Maintaining them is a full time job for people with an an unusual combination of skills including heavy mech/electrical and climbing

But if these windmills can only continue if they’re subsidised, does this mean that the maintenance crew, who keep these things in working order also survive by being subsidised, i.e. no profit?

What happens when the subsidies dry up (as they undoubtedly will) – who will pay to have the windmills serviced then? (same applies to solar panels)

[turbobloke]

Apache said:

That'll be due to kingsize pigeon poo caused by global warming.

[dickymint]

turbobloke said:

Apache said:

That'll be due to kingsize pigeon poo caused by global warming.

More like dead pigeons pinging off the windy mill blades.

[turbobloke]

dickymint said:

turbobloke said:

Apache said:

That'll be due to kingsize pigeon poo caused by global warming.

More like dead pigeons pinging off the windy mill blades.

Due to pigeonavigation being scrambled by global warming.

[JMGS4]

Funny how Lovelocks admission that he vastly overexaggerated is getting little coverage. This guys lies costs us billions!! see
http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/23/11...

[chris watton]

This also may turn out to be very interesting...

http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2012/4/24/murdoch-...

Bishop Hill said:

Murdoch, media and the climate

Apr 24, 2012 Climate: Parliament Media


Sharp-eyed reader Woodentop has noted a fascinating snippet in the evidence submitted to the Levenson inquiry into the relationship between the media and government, currently running into its umpteenth month in London.

The document in question (see link below, an excerpt from a much larger set of documents) is an email from Rupert Murdoch's European public affair boss, Frederic Michel, to the great media mogul himself. It outlines meetings he has had with the advisers of the prime minister, David Cameron, and his deputy, Nick Clegg. It appears that there are a series of proposals for Murdoch's News Corporation to assist the government's public relations efforts - copyright issues and Cameron's "Big Society" programme are mentioned. The quid pro quo appears to be the regulatory clearance of News Corp's bid to buy the shares of Sky TV that it did not already own.

At the end comes the interesting bit - what appears to be another bit of mutual backscratching:


Proposition for News Corp to attend a ministerial Climate Change meeting with Chris Huhne and No 10 to present our strategy so far.

How very, very interesting!

[odyssey2200]

OK, here'something that has been bugging me.
WTF is a "Green Job"?

All these eco Mentalists and our glorious leaders keep banging on about "Green Jobs"

Can anyone give me an example of one of these Green Jobs that is sustainable (see what I did there?)

Apart from importing and erecting a few disturbines, which once done will be redundant.
What are these thousands of jobs that will be created?

[Cledus Snow]

University of East Anglia spent over £100,000 managing media storm surrounding ‘cimategate’ scandal

[Pointman]

@odyssey2200 re "green jobs"

"President Obama pledged a 150 billion USD investment over the next decade, to create a promised 5 million green jobs but nearly half way through that period, the number of green jobs created is so pitiful, the numbers are already being “massaged.” Apparently, if you drive a hybrid powered bus, you’re officially classified as having a green job. Bart should tell that to Otto the next time he climbs on the school bus – I think Otto will be kinda pleased about that."

http://thepointman.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/the-su...

Pointman

[turbobloke]

Guam said:

odyssey2200 said:

OK, here'something that has been bugging me.
WTF is a "Green Job"?

All these eco Mentalists and our glorious leaders keep banging on about "Green Jobs"

Can anyone give me an example of one of these Green Jobs that is sustainable (see what I did there?)

Apart from importing and erecting a few disturbines, which once done will be redundant.
What are these thousands of jobs that will be created?

Leprechaun employment scheme silly

Martian midgets have access too it's fully equal opps.

[nelly1]

Opposition to Scottish Windmills seems to be gathering pace - website here...

Donald Trump putting his not unsizable boot in - here...

Funny, as I thought 88% of Scots wanted the things, according to this... survey?

[turbobloke]

nelly1 said:

Opposition to Scottish Windmills seems to be gathering pace - website here...

Donald Trump putting his not unsizable boot in - here...

Funny, as I thought 88% of Scots wanted the things, according to this... survey?

That'll be the same type of survey that established the 'consensus' with no doubt whatsoever!

[Mr GrimNasty]

mybrainhurts said:

Mr GrimNasty said:

What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -

I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...

Don't be silly, just about every house still has one or more, there are millions out there - and 1 thermometer contains the same amount of mercury as about 5 million CFLs. What about all the florescent large tubes in homes and offices?

The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.

What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?

As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.