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Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

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Pointman

107 posts

45 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Imagine Katrina hitting New Orleans and every house in it has nothing but CFLs. Goodbye fishing in the gulf ...

Pointman

BliarOut

62,461 posts

136 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
Germany Banks on Coal and Gas by Building 17 New Coal & 29 New Gas-Fired Power Stations

German utilities and private investors have plans to construct or modernise some 84 power stations, energy and water industry association BDEW said on Monday. Of the total number counted 29 units were gas-fired and 17 coal-fired generation plants, it said. The plans this year reflect over a year of debate on how to best replace Germany's nuclear power stations, which must be closed faster than planned in light of the nuclear disaster in Japan in March 2011.
Reuters, 23 April 2012
Thereby rendering every single penny our own government spends on CO2 reduction (read costing us money) completely pointless.

Wake up and smell the coffee boys rolleyes

Blib

30,265 posts

94 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
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How very dare you! Our government, using your taxes, is saving the World ! There's nothing nobler.

turbobloke

67,660 posts

157 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
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Meanwhile our lot are talking more rubbish smile

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/316294/Britain...

Naturally, on cue "environmentalists warned that energy from waste can discourage recycling and reuse of resources and they raised health concerns about pollution from incinerators".

Mr GrimNasty

5,285 posts

67 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
Pointman said:
Imagine Katrina hitting New Orleans and every house in it has nothing but CFLs. Goodbye fishing in the gulf ...

Pointman
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury - jeez, you must just have had a panic attack.

And there are far more serious pollutants in far larger quantities that would be released in such catastrophes.

Nature/time has a way of processing (fixing, if not actually breaking down) even the nastiest pollutants.

Sorry, but you've lost the plot. On the scale of things to worry about, mercury in CFLs just does not figure.

Blib

30,265 posts

94 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
This is one of he many things that show how blinkered environmental campaigners can be. This is a quote from TB's article.

article said:
Friends of the Earth Waste Campaigner Julian Kirby said: “It’s true thousands of UK jobs can be created by reducing waste and boosting recycling - but much of that would go up in smoke if we listened to the rubbish spouted about the need for new incinerators.
And here's some nformation about the incinerators from the same article.

article said:
SITA UK also stressed that incinerators have to meet strict EU emissions limits and that they would only burn waste that could not be recycled.
These people seem to ignore the facts and follow their own knee-jerk narrative.

Fools.

mybrainhurts

81,589 posts

152 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
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Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...

Pesty

33,240 posts

153 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...
Yep they have been some kind of red liquid for as long as i remember.

Pointman

107 posts

45 months

Tuesday 24th April 2012
quotequote all
The problem with the real dyed-in-the-green fanatics is, they're so fixated on cutting down co2, they don't care if they poison the earth. It reminds me of what that Lt. said of that Vietnamese village in the war - "We had to destroy it to save it."

Pointman

LongQ

Original Poster:

11,053 posts

130 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
Blib said:
This is one of he many things that show how blinkered environmental campaigners can be. This is a quote from TB's article.

article said:
Friends of the Earth Waste Campaigner Julian Kirby said: “It’s true thousands of UK jobs can be created by reducing waste and boosting recycling - but much of that would go up in smoke if we listened to the rubbish spouted about the need for new incinerators.
And here's some nformation about the incinerators from the same article.

article said:
SITA UK also stressed that incinerators have to meet strict EU emissions limits and that they would only burn waste that could not be recycled.
These people seem to ignore the facts and follow their own knee-jerk narrative.

Fools.
The 'creating jobs' message, even if vaguely 'true', really means that whatever the 'product' is for which these jobs are created will cost more.

I have yet to see a company report that it will be able to operate more cheaply by creating a lot of jobs.

Take eolectricity generation for example. There have been claims that the 'renewables' industry could create 100,000 jobs. To do what?

On balance the policies promioted are to improve efficiency of electricity consumption. Over time one might suggest that improved efficiecy at point of consumptio will either result in reduced generation requirement or be balanced (more or less) by increase in demand to to, inter alia, population growth.

Adding 100k jobs to the cost base for the same level of output is unlikely to reduce costs - unless those jobs and all that previously existed in the industry are moved to a lower cost per head pay rate.

Maybe the jobs could be subsidiesd? How about transferring MPs and Civil Servants to those roles? Should be enough of them to fulfill the numbers and the savings could be significant compared to surrent salaries and pension expectations.

martin84

5,366 posts

50 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
There does seem to be this assumption that anything which creates jobs is therefore a good idea. But if those extra jobs will only serve to bring the customer what they had before but at a higher cost then we'd rather them jobs were not created.

Tesco wouldn't triple their staff numbers because it'd triple their prices.

Pointman

107 posts

45 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman

deeps

4,338 posts

138 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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Plans to errect EDF disturbines were formally rejected this week here In Burnham on sea, nobody wants the useless things.

http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2012/wind-farm-...

turbobloke

67,660 posts

157 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
deeps said:
Plans to errect EDF disturbines were formally rejected this week here In Burnham on sea, nobody wants the useless things.

http://www.burnham-on-sea.com/news/2012/wind-farm-...
Good news, we need more decisions like that.

Meanwhile, Johnny Ball has chosed to do an 'I told you so' routine over the Arch High Priest of Gaia getting it wrong.

http://www.johnnyball.co.uk/html/johnnysblog.html

Apache

39,658 posts

181 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
Pointman said:
Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman


Not quite, these things are high maintenance, the gearboxes are under enormous pressures and fail often, sometimes with spectacular results. Maintaining them is a full time job for people with an an unusual combination of skills including heavy mech/electrical and climbing








chris watton

17,824 posts

157 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
Apache said:
Pointman said:
Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman


Not quite, these things are high maintenance, the gearboxes are under enormous pressures and fail often, sometimes with spectacular results. Maintaining them is a full time job for people with an an unusual combination of skills including heavy mech/electrical and climbing
But if these windmills can only continue if they’re subsidised, does this mean that the maintenance crew, who keep these things in working order also survive by being subsidised, i.e. no profit?

What happens when the subsidies dry up (as they undoubtedly will) – who will pay to have the windmills serviced then? (same applies to solar panels)

Apache

39,658 posts

181 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
chris watton said:
Apache said:
Pointman said:
Creating green jobs theory is a bit like climate science, the models simply don't stack up against the real world data. The Spanish study showed that for every green job created, 2.2 jobs were destroyed in the real economy.

The cherry on top was that only one in ten of the green jobs being created would ever be permanent. Once you've built all the bird choppers, you lay off the construction workers and get someone part-time to come around and remove all the bird carcasses.

Pointman


Not quite, these things are high maintenance, the gearboxes are under enormous pressures and fail often, sometimes with spectacular results. Maintaining them is a full time job for people with an an unusual combination of skills including heavy mech/electrical and climbing
But if these windmills can only continue if they’re subsidised, does this mean that the maintenance crew, who keep these things in working order also survive by being subsidised, i.e. no profit?

What happens when the subsidies dry up (as they undoubtedly will) – who will pay to have the windmills serviced then? (same applies to solar panels)



turbobloke

67,660 posts

157 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
Apache said:
That'll be due to kingsize pigeon poo caused by global warming.

dickymint

12,562 posts

155 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
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turbobloke said:
Apache said:
That'll be due to kingsize pigeon poo caused by global warming.
More like dead pigeons pinging off the windy mill blades.

turbobloke

67,660 posts

157 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
dickymint said:
turbobloke said:
Apache said:
That'll be due to kingsize pigeon poo caused by global warming.
More like dead pigeons pinging off the windy mill blades.
Due to pigeonavigation being scrambled by global warming.
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