Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.
Discussion
Mr GrimNasty said:
Don't be silly, just about every house still has one or more, there are millions out there - and 1 thermometer contains the same amount of mercury as about 5 million CFLs. What about all the florescent large tubes in homes and offices?
The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
Your argument seems to be "there's already lots of pollutant out there, so why worry about adding loads more". Wouldn't it be better to stop adding more?The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
Just right for PH...probably.
Shale Cars The New Transport Revolution
There are more than 13 million natural gas vehicles on the road worldwide. Now companies and researchers are working on infrastructure and technologies to help bring the US's growing stock of natural gas to fuel tanks, including those of long-haul vehicles.
David Biello, Scientific American, 23 April 2012
Brave New World
From the UK to Argentina, from South Africa to Mexico, countries are waking up to the potential value of domestic shale gas reserves. Suddenly, a new wave of gas producers looks set to emerge that could threaten the old oligopoly. Instead of importing natural gas, the US is beginning to export it. The geopolitical fallout will stretch out over decades. “The world will never be the same again,” says Prof Stern.
Guy Chazan, Financial Times, 23 April 2012
Shale Cars The New Transport Revolution
There are more than 13 million natural gas vehicles on the road worldwide. Now companies and researchers are working on infrastructure and technologies to help bring the US's growing stock of natural gas to fuel tanks, including those of long-haul vehicles.
David Biello, Scientific American, 23 April 2012
Brave New World
From the UK to Argentina, from South Africa to Mexico, countries are waking up to the potential value of domestic shale gas reserves. Suddenly, a new wave of gas producers looks set to emerge that could threaten the old oligopoly. Instead of importing natural gas, the US is beginning to export it. The geopolitical fallout will stretch out over decades. “The world will never be the same again,” says Prof Stern.
Guy Chazan, Financial Times, 23 April 2012
Mr GrimNasty said:
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
I was telling you to GET A GRIP over thermometers...
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
I was telling you to GET A GRIP over thermometers...
This might do well.. in America and possibly elsewhere. ;-)
(4 mins worth, well worth a listen, hope goes viral - 500k at the moment)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
If I wanted America to fail..
...to follow not lead.
to suffer, not prosper
to despair, not dream
.. I'd start with energy..
(4 mins worth, well worth a listen, hope goes viral - 500k at the moment)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
If I wanted America to fail..
...to follow not lead.
to suffer, not prosper
to despair, not dream
.. I'd start with energy..
If I wanted America to fail …
To follow, not lead; to suffer, not prosper; to despair, not dream.
I would start with energy.
I’d cut off America’s supply of cheap, abundant energy. I couldn’t take it by force. So, I’d make Americans feel guilty for using the energy that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their businesses, and powers their economy.
I’d make cheap energy expensive, so that expensive energy would seem cheap.
I would empower unelected bureaucrats to all-but-outlaw America’s most abundant sources of energy. And after banning its use in America, I’d make it illegal for American companies to ship it overseas.
If I wanted America to fail …
I’d use our schools to teach one generation of Americans that our factories and our cars will cause a new Ice Age, and I’d muster a straight face so I could teach the next generation that they’re causing Global Warming.
And when it’s cold out, I’d call it Climate Change instead.
I’d imply that America’s cities and factories could run on wind power and wishes. I’d teach children how to ignore the hypocrisy of condemning logging, mining and farming — while having roofs over their heads, heat in their homes and food on their tables. I would never teach children that the free market is the only force in human history to uplift the poor, establish the middle class and create lasting prosperity.
Instead, I’d demonize prosperity itself, so that they will not miss what they will never have.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would create countless new regulations and seldom cancel old ones. They would be so complicated that only bureaucrats, lawyers and lobbyists could understand them. That way small businesses with big ideas wouldn’t stand a chance – and I would never have to worry about another Thomas Edison, Henry Ford or Steve Jobs.
I would ridicule as “Flat Earthers” those who urge us to lower energy costs by increasing supply. And when the evangelists of commonsense try to remind people about the law of supply and demand, I’d enlist a sympathetic media to drown them out.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would empower unaccountable bureaucracies seated in a distant capitol to bully Americans out of their dreams and their property rights. I’d send federal agents to raid guitar factories for using the wrong kind of wood; I’d force homeowners to tear down the homes they built on their own land.
I’d make it almost impossible for farmers to farm, miners to mine, loggers to log, and builders to build.
And because I don’t believe in free markets, I’d invent false ones. I’d devise fictitious products—like carbon credits—and trade them in imaginary markets. I’d convince people that this would create jobs and be good for the economy.
If I wanted America to fail …
For every concern, I’d invent a crisis; and for every crisis, I’d invent the cause; Like shutting down entire industries and killing tens of thousands of jobs in the name of saving spotted owls. And when everyone learned the stunning irony that the owls were victims of their larger cousins—and not people—it would already be decades too late.
If I wanted America to fail …
I’d make it easier to stop commerce than start it – easier to kill jobs than create them – more fashionable to resent success than to seek it.
When industries seek to create jobs, I’d file lawsuits to stop them. And then I’d make taxpayers pay for my lawyers.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would transform the environmental agenda from a document of conservation to an economic suicide pact. I would concede entire industries to our economic rivals by imposing regulations that cost trillions. I would celebrate those who preach environmental austerity in public while indulging a lavish lifestyle in private.
I’d convince Americans that Europe has it right, and America has it wrong.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would prey on the goodness and decency of ordinary Americans.
I would only need to convince them … that all of this is for the greater good.
If I wanted America to fail, I suppose I wouldn’t change a thing.
To follow, not lead; to suffer, not prosper; to despair, not dream.
I would start with energy.
I’d cut off America’s supply of cheap, abundant energy. I couldn’t take it by force. So, I’d make Americans feel guilty for using the energy that heats their homes, fuels their cars, runs their businesses, and powers their economy.
I’d make cheap energy expensive, so that expensive energy would seem cheap.
I would empower unelected bureaucrats to all-but-outlaw America’s most abundant sources of energy. And after banning its use in America, I’d make it illegal for American companies to ship it overseas.
If I wanted America to fail …
I’d use our schools to teach one generation of Americans that our factories and our cars will cause a new Ice Age, and I’d muster a straight face so I could teach the next generation that they’re causing Global Warming.
And when it’s cold out, I’d call it Climate Change instead.
I’d imply that America’s cities and factories could run on wind power and wishes. I’d teach children how to ignore the hypocrisy of condemning logging, mining and farming — while having roofs over their heads, heat in their homes and food on their tables. I would never teach children that the free market is the only force in human history to uplift the poor, establish the middle class and create lasting prosperity.
Instead, I’d demonize prosperity itself, so that they will not miss what they will never have.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would create countless new regulations and seldom cancel old ones. They would be so complicated that only bureaucrats, lawyers and lobbyists could understand them. That way small businesses with big ideas wouldn’t stand a chance – and I would never have to worry about another Thomas Edison, Henry Ford or Steve Jobs.
I would ridicule as “Flat Earthers” those who urge us to lower energy costs by increasing supply. And when the evangelists of commonsense try to remind people about the law of supply and demand, I’d enlist a sympathetic media to drown them out.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would empower unaccountable bureaucracies seated in a distant capitol to bully Americans out of their dreams and their property rights. I’d send federal agents to raid guitar factories for using the wrong kind of wood; I’d force homeowners to tear down the homes they built on their own land.
I’d make it almost impossible for farmers to farm, miners to mine, loggers to log, and builders to build.
And because I don’t believe in free markets, I’d invent false ones. I’d devise fictitious products—like carbon credits—and trade them in imaginary markets. I’d convince people that this would create jobs and be good for the economy.
If I wanted America to fail …
For every concern, I’d invent a crisis; and for every crisis, I’d invent the cause; Like shutting down entire industries and killing tens of thousands of jobs in the name of saving spotted owls. And when everyone learned the stunning irony that the owls were victims of their larger cousins—and not people—it would already be decades too late.
If I wanted America to fail …
I’d make it easier to stop commerce than start it – easier to kill jobs than create them – more fashionable to resent success than to seek it.
When industries seek to create jobs, I’d file lawsuits to stop them. And then I’d make taxpayers pay for my lawyers.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would transform the environmental agenda from a document of conservation to an economic suicide pact. I would concede entire industries to our economic rivals by imposing regulations that cost trillions. I would celebrate those who preach environmental austerity in public while indulging a lavish lifestyle in private.
I’d convince Americans that Europe has it right, and America has it wrong.
If I wanted America to fail …
I would prey on the goodness and decency of ordinary Americans.
I would only need to convince them … that all of this is for the greater good.
If I wanted America to fail, I suppose I wouldn’t change a thing.
Phil1 said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
Don't be silly, just about every house still has one or more, there are millions out there - and 1 thermometer contains the same amount of mercury as about 5 million CFLs. What about all the florescent large tubes in homes and offices?
The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
Your argument seems to be "there's already lots of pollutant out there, so why worry about adding loads more". Wouldn't it be better to stop adding more?The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
Oh...
BJWoods said:
This might do well.. in America and possibly elsewhere. ;-)
(4 mins worth, well worth a listen, hope goes viral - 500k at the moment)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
If I wanted America to fail..
...to follow not lead.
to suffer, not prosper
to despair, not dream
.. I'd start with energy..
Up to 903,000 now. (4 mins worth, well worth a listen, hope goes viral - 500k at the moment)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...
If I wanted America to fail..
...to follow not lead.
to suffer, not prosper
to despair, not dream
.. I'd start with energy..
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
mybrainhurts said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
What about all the thermometers, barometers etc. - real substantial quantities of mercury -
I think you'll find mercury has been banned from such instruments...The ban was VERY recent and PARTIAL.
What about all the dead bodies floating around with mercury fillings after the tsunami?
As I keep saying. Mercury in CFLs is NOT an issue. GET A GRIP.
I was telling you to GET A GRIP over thermometers...
http://descy.50megs.com/descy/webcred/webcred/dhmo...
He said "Do you eat tuna? A standard tin of tuna could contain about 4 lamps worth of mercury.
The biggest source of mercury in the environment is burning coal though, lots ends up both up the powerstation chimney or left behind in the fly ash.
So if you power tungsten filament bulbs with windmills it's a net win. On our 30% coal fired grid it's still a net reduction in mercury exposure using the CFLs."
Mercury, since it's forever and doesn't even have a half life, is the perfect substance for what's called bioaccumulation. A lot of small mercury contaminated creatures are eaten by a bigger one. An ever bigger creature eats a lot of those and so on. Whoever's at the top of the food chain, gets the full accumulated payload ...
Pointman
Pointman
Rio+20 African Nations Fear European Green Agenda
African leaders have expressed concern about European efforts to seek binding targets on sustainable development, fearing brakes would be applied to their economies by rich countries.
Euractiv, 25 April 2012
Global Warning
Economic and environmental catastrophes unavoidable unless rich countries cut consumption and global population stabilises. World population needs to be stabilised quickly and high consumption in rich countries rapidly reduced to avoid “a downward spiral of economic and environmental ills”, warns a major report from the Royal Society.
John Vidal, The Guardian, 26 April 2012
Hang on...
Ecological Disaster Worse Than Nuclear War by 2002
A United Nations meeting on the environment opened Monday with an official forecast that the world faces an ecological disaster as final as nuclear war within a couple of decades unless governments act now. Lack of such action would bring "by the turn of the century, an environmental catastrophe which will witness devastation as complete, as irreversible as any nuclear holocaust"
Ecological Disaster Feared, Reuters, 11 May 1982.
Checks calendar...2012...Ooops.
Still, much better than previously thought
African leaders have expressed concern about European efforts to seek binding targets on sustainable development, fearing brakes would be applied to their economies by rich countries.
Euractiv, 25 April 2012
Global Warning
Economic and environmental catastrophes unavoidable unless rich countries cut consumption and global population stabilises. World population needs to be stabilised quickly and high consumption in rich countries rapidly reduced to avoid “a downward spiral of economic and environmental ills”, warns a major report from the Royal Society.
John Vidal, The Guardian, 26 April 2012
Hang on...
Ecological Disaster Worse Than Nuclear War by 2002
A United Nations meeting on the environment opened Monday with an official forecast that the world faces an ecological disaster as final as nuclear war within a couple of decades unless governments act now. Lack of such action would bring "by the turn of the century, an environmental catastrophe which will witness devastation as complete, as irreversible as any nuclear holocaust"
Ecological Disaster Feared, Reuters, 11 May 1982.
Checks calendar...2012...Ooops.
Still, much better than previously thought
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