Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.
Discussion
Anybody watching earth orbit on BBC2?
I'm waiting for the punchline but so far all they are talking about is orbit to the sun causing temperature changes and now they are on about increasing Ice making it harder for these people to hunt.
Whats going to be the reason?
well im f
king gobsmacked no mention at all of mmgw
I'm waiting for the punchline but so far all they are talking about is orbit to the sun causing temperature changes and now they are on about increasing Ice making it harder for these people to hunt.
Whats going to be the reason?
well im f
king gobsmacked no mention at all of mmgwEdited by Pesty on Sunday 11th March 21:58
I was amazed I honestly thought there was not going to be a single mention of MMGW as they had so many opportunities to crowbar it in but they didn't until right at the end. I guess the BBC has worked out that people don't want this stuff rammed down their throats so are maybe taking a softly softly approach?
jurbie said:
I was amazed I honestly thought there was not going to be a single mention of MMGW as they had so many opportunities to crowbar it in but they didn't until right at the end. I guess the BBC has worked out that people don't want this stuff rammed down their throats so are maybe taking a softly softly approach?
Yeah right at the end so its the last thing you remember.Almost like they planned it that way.
I have a question. The programme is about the earths orbit, so why mention MMGW at all???
Because BBC
Globs said:
LongQ said:
rasto said:
'Carbon footprint consultant' on Countryfile tonight in a section misleadingly titled 'John Craven Investigates'. There's no investigation involved though, just the usual mmgw and carbon footprint claptrap 
I remember when John Craven used to be a journalist, now he's just a mouthpiece for the propaganda machine.
I was just about to ask if anyone had seen this program. I don't watch TV but Mrs. LQ does and Countryfile is usually the program of choice as I prepare food on a Sunday evening. I can hear the soundtrack, or some of it. I remember when John Craven used to be a journalist, now he's just a mouthpiece for the propaganda machine.FFS, I reckon a good 95% of the population is sick of this scam now, time to close it down.
It would be interesting to know how much the BBC has paid and is paying (of our money) to media advisors (or advertising specialists) for consultations on how to best push the MMGW message down the throats of its viewers without forcing it too hard and making them sick - turning them away altogether. I bet it's a tidy sum.
The new line is much more subtle than the old, but just as transparent and just as wrong. I can't watchry File anymore, it's laden particularly heavy with bullst even by BBC standards.
The new line is much more subtle than the old, but just as transparent and just as wrong. I can't watch
ry File anymore, it's laden particularly heavy with bullst even by BBC standards.
Guam said:
dickymint said:
It's true renewables do create new jobs..................
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/307379/Wind-fa...
Quick fix to this, get everyone you can to switch energy suppliers from Centrica, I thought it was only big oil that dared to interfere in the political process.http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/307379/Wind-fa...
Is this not the very behaviour the other side comdemn so loudly <even though hard evidence has yet to be provided>
We should start a campaign to move from these guys
On the other hand holding the shares give me right to attend the AGM. Not sure when the next one is.
Anyone else got a few shares and up for a meet and, presumably, some tea and biscuits or similar?
Hmm. The next AGM is 11th May which is not good for me. Bummer.
Can't remember PH covering this testament to crumbling public support for the politics of junkscience.
BSA Report published by NCSR said:
The latest British Social Attitudes (BSA) report (07 December 2011) by the National Centre for Social Research, reveals a substantial decline in public concern for environmental issues and climate change.
The seminal study of the British public’s attitudes and values, published annually for almost 30 years, pinpoints economic hardship and climate change scepticism as the key factors contributing to the decline in Britain’s collective environmental conscience.
It finds people are increasingly reluctant to make personal financial sacrifices to protect the environment:
• Since 2000 the number of people prepared to pay higher prices to safeguard the environment has fallen, from 43 to 26 per cent. So too has the proportion willing to pay much higher taxes to protect the environment, from 31 to 22 per cent.
• Support has fallen among all income groups. Just over a third (36 per cent) of those in the highest earning households (in 2010 defined as those with household income of over £44,000) would be willing to pay higher prices to protect the environment, down from 52 per cent in 2000.
The report also finds that people are more sceptical about the credibility of scientific research on global warming:
• Under half the population (43 per cent) currently considers rising temperatures caused by climate change to be very dangerous for the environment, down from 50 per cent in 2000.
• The least likely to see climate change as dangerous were older people (28 per cent), those with no qualifications (28 per cent) and those on the lowest incomes (37 per cent).
• Over a third (37 per cent) think many claims about environmental threats are exaggerated, up from 24 per cent in 2000.
Although there are some signs of people resisting the green agenda, certain environmentally friendly behaviours are becoming mainstream:
• Recycling appears to have become a social norm, with 86 per cent of people saying they ‘always’ or ‘often’ make the effort to recycle. Furthermore, 39 per cent strive to reduce their home energy use and 32 per cent choose to save or reuse water.
• Other green behaviours demanding more of a lifestyle change, such as cutting personal car use, have yet to translate into popular action. Just one in five (19 per cent) have cut back on driving.
Cause and effect problems are everywhere...the reasons for cutting back on car use relate to economics not climate guff, homes are less well heated and vulnerable elderly are dying because of pointlessly expensive windymill nonsense at the heart of energy policy and recycling is where it is because Councils have no choice if they want to avoid losing tens of millions of pounds of local taxpayers' cash in fines to the credulous and incompetent EUSSR.The seminal study of the British public’s attitudes and values, published annually for almost 30 years, pinpoints economic hardship and climate change scepticism as the key factors contributing to the decline in Britain’s collective environmental conscience.
It finds people are increasingly reluctant to make personal financial sacrifices to protect the environment:
• Since 2000 the number of people prepared to pay higher prices to safeguard the environment has fallen, from 43 to 26 per cent. So too has the proportion willing to pay much higher taxes to protect the environment, from 31 to 22 per cent.
• Support has fallen among all income groups. Just over a third (36 per cent) of those in the highest earning households (in 2010 defined as those with household income of over £44,000) would be willing to pay higher prices to protect the environment, down from 52 per cent in 2000.
The report also finds that people are more sceptical about the credibility of scientific research on global warming:
• Under half the population (43 per cent) currently considers rising temperatures caused by climate change to be very dangerous for the environment, down from 50 per cent in 2000.
• The least likely to see climate change as dangerous were older people (28 per cent), those with no qualifications (28 per cent) and those on the lowest incomes (37 per cent).
• Over a third (37 per cent) think many claims about environmental threats are exaggerated, up from 24 per cent in 2000.
Although there are some signs of people resisting the green agenda, certain environmentally friendly behaviours are becoming mainstream:
• Recycling appears to have become a social norm, with 86 per cent of people saying they ‘always’ or ‘often’ make the effort to recycle. Furthermore, 39 per cent strive to reduce their home energy use and 32 per cent choose to save or reuse water.
• Other green behaviours demanding more of a lifestyle change, such as cutting personal car use, have yet to translate into popular action. Just one in five (19 per cent) have cut back on driving.
And those fantastic electric cars - the future...
Karma for the Fisker Karma?
"Unplugged? $100,000 Fisker Karma electric plug-in breaks down during testing"
As I said before, 2012 hasn't been the best year for the electric vehicle industry.
Following news of temporary layoffs and millions lost involving some of the industry’s main players, a $107,850 Karma from Fisker Automotive last week died during Consumer Reports speed testing for unknown reasons, according to the monthly publication.
“We have owned our car for just a few days; it has less than 200 miles on its odometer,” according to Consumer Reports. “While doing speedometer calibration runs on our test track (a procedure we do for every test car before putting it in service by driving the car at a constant 65 mph between two measured points), the dashboard flashed a message and sounded a ‘bing’ showing a major fault.”
The magazine reportedly buys about 80 cars a year for testing and the California-based automaker’s plug-in electric hybrid, which has technology similar to the Chevrolet Volt, is “the first time in memory" that a vehicle was undriveable before it had finished the magazine's check-in process.
The breakdown is the most recent tidbit of bad news along a long road of disappointments regarding the start-up company that received a $528.7 million conditional loan from the U.S.Department of Energy's $25 billion Advanced Technologies Vehicle Manufacturing Loan Program
The Karma is the first vehicle from the 5-year-old automaker. It debuted at the 2008 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, but after numerous delays, wasn’t released until July 2011.
Since being launched, sales of the vehicle have been minuscule and the company had to recall more than 200 of the plug-in electric hybrids due to a battery problem that could cause a fire.
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Fisker recalled 239 of four-door sedans -- the majority still at dealerships -- because a misaligned battery part could cause coolant to leak and result in a fire.
A123 Systems Inc., which provides the lithium-ion batteries for the vehicle, also partially blamed Fisker for its $85 million fourth-quarter loss.
http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2012/03/unplug...
Karma for the Fisker Karma?
article said:
"Unplugged? $100,000 Fisker Karma electric plug-in breaks down during testing"
As I said before, 2012 hasn't been the best year for the electric vehicle industry.
Following news of temporary layoffs and millions lost involving some of the industry’s main players, a $107,850 Karma from Fisker Automotive last week died during Consumer Reports speed testing for unknown reasons, according to the monthly publication.
“We have owned our car for just a few days; it has less than 200 miles on its odometer,” according to Consumer Reports. “While doing speedometer calibration runs on our test track (a procedure we do for every test car before putting it in service by driving the car at a constant 65 mph between two measured points), the dashboard flashed a message and sounded a ‘bing’ showing a major fault.”
The magazine reportedly buys about 80 cars a year for testing and the California-based automaker’s plug-in electric hybrid, which has technology similar to the Chevrolet Volt, is “the first time in memory" that a vehicle was undriveable before it had finished the magazine's check-in process.
The breakdown is the most recent tidbit of bad news along a long road of disappointments regarding the start-up company that received a $528.7 million conditional loan from the U.S.Department of Energy's $25 billion Advanced Technologies Vehicle Manufacturing Loan Program
The Karma is the first vehicle from the 5-year-old automaker. It debuted at the 2008 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, but after numerous delays, wasn’t released until July 2011.
Since being launched, sales of the vehicle have been minuscule and the company had to recall more than 200 of the plug-in electric hybrids due to a battery problem that could cause a fire.
According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Fisker recalled 239 of four-door sedans -- the majority still at dealerships -- because a misaligned battery part could cause coolant to leak and result in a fire.
A123 Systems Inc., which provides the lithium-ion batteries for the vehicle, also partially blamed Fisker for its $85 million fourth-quarter loss.
http://www.mlive.com/auto/index.ssf/2012/03/unplug...
Edited by chris watton on Monday 12th March 08:35
Anti-Green Rollback Begins
The UK government wants nuclear power to be given parity with renewables in Europe, in a move that would significantly boost atomic energy in Britain but downgrade investment in renewable generation, according to a leaked document seen by The Guardian. The EU-wide target should be scrapped when its current phase – requiring member states to generate 20% of energy from renewables – runs out in 2020, according to a secret submission to the European commission. "The UK envisages multiple low-carbon technologies: renewables, nuclear and carbon capture and storage, all competing freely against each other in the years to come. For this reason, we cannot support a 2030 renewables target," it reads.
Fiona Harvey and Juliette Jowit, The Guardian, 12 March 2012
Wind power – more accurately wind impotence, since turbines operate at just 24 per cent of capacity – is the curse of Scotland. One of the most beautiful landscapes in Europe has been brutally ravaged, families have been driven into fuel poverty, pensioners have been presented with the lethal dilemma “heat or eat” – all to appease the neurotic prejudices of global warming fanatics.
Gerald Warner, Scotland on Sunday, 11 March 2012
The Government is poised to give the go-ahead for resumption of the controversial ‘fracking’ technique of mining that caused earthquakes near Blackpool last year. It is understood that the Department of Energy and Climate Change is likely to allow exploration by Cuadrilla Resources in Lancashire to continue on condition that the company introduces new safety methods to ensure mining stops on signs of impending tremors.
Mail on Sunday, 11 March 2012
The European Union’s ambitious low carbon plan collapsed yesterday when Poland vetoed plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions drastically after 2020. If the Europeans can’t agree on a climate plan, the prospect that the rest of the world can agree is less than zero. Every dime spent by climate activists on this goal was wasted. Every white paper on the subject was a folly. Every global conference was a grotesque and pointless boondoggle. Every pundit who supported this agenda was blowing smoke and every politician who endorsed it was either an idiot or a demagogue — or both. This dog won’t hunt. This pig won’t fly. This horse can’t win. This parrot is dead. None of this will stop green scam artists raising money from naive and goodhearted donors. It won’t stop bureaucrats who have a vested interest in eternal international processes and immortal, salary paying institutions devoid of all purpose or use. It won’t stop people who don’t understand the international system dreaming up new and equally unworkable unicorn catching devices. It won’t stop socialists, Malthusians and other anti-capitalist activists from using green rhetoric in attempts to whip up resistance to progress and change.
Walter Russell Mead, Via Meadia, 10 March 2012
A senior MP has demanded answers from Energy Ministers as support for the Green Deal appears to have started crumbling away. The Green Deal is scheduled to be launched on October 1 but reports this week suggest the full rollout may be delayed until next year in a wrangle over the payment mechanism. Critics are accusing the Green Deal of being a flawed policy, which could actually double the cost of installing energy efficiency measures, once a list of extra costs are factored in.
Green Click News, 11 March 2012
DECC have spent millions of pounds of tax payers money to arrive at a Green Deal scheme that is nothing more than a very expensive and complex ‘buy now, pay later and pay much more’ finance offering. A scheme that will lead to consumers receiving extremely poor value and that will harm the UK economy and destroy jobs. A way of using subsidies to destroy tens of thousands of longstanding non-subsidised jobs, that’s all that DECC have achieved, is it any wonder they are desperate to promote the Green Deal.
John Oddi, Green Click News, 11 March 2012
The UK government wants nuclear power to be given parity with renewables in Europe, in a move that would significantly boost atomic energy in Britain but downgrade investment in renewable generation, according to a leaked document seen by The Guardian. The EU-wide target should be scrapped when its current phase – requiring member states to generate 20% of energy from renewables – runs out in 2020, according to a secret submission to the European commission. "The UK envisages multiple low-carbon technologies: renewables, nuclear and carbon capture and storage, all competing freely against each other in the years to come. For this reason, we cannot support a 2030 renewables target," it reads.
Fiona Harvey and Juliette Jowit, The Guardian, 12 March 2012
Wind power – more accurately wind impotence, since turbines operate at just 24 per cent of capacity – is the curse of Scotland. One of the most beautiful landscapes in Europe has been brutally ravaged, families have been driven into fuel poverty, pensioners have been presented with the lethal dilemma “heat or eat” – all to appease the neurotic prejudices of global warming fanatics.
Gerald Warner, Scotland on Sunday, 11 March 2012
The Government is poised to give the go-ahead for resumption of the controversial ‘fracking’ technique of mining that caused earthquakes near Blackpool last year. It is understood that the Department of Energy and Climate Change is likely to allow exploration by Cuadrilla Resources in Lancashire to continue on condition that the company introduces new safety methods to ensure mining stops on signs of impending tremors.
Mail on Sunday, 11 March 2012
The European Union’s ambitious low carbon plan collapsed yesterday when Poland vetoed plans to reduce greenhouse gas emissions drastically after 2020. If the Europeans can’t agree on a climate plan, the prospect that the rest of the world can agree is less than zero. Every dime spent by climate activists on this goal was wasted. Every white paper on the subject was a folly. Every global conference was a grotesque and pointless boondoggle. Every pundit who supported this agenda was blowing smoke and every politician who endorsed it was either an idiot or a demagogue — or both. This dog won’t hunt. This pig won’t fly. This horse can’t win. This parrot is dead. None of this will stop green scam artists raising money from naive and goodhearted donors. It won’t stop bureaucrats who have a vested interest in eternal international processes and immortal, salary paying institutions devoid of all purpose or use. It won’t stop people who don’t understand the international system dreaming up new and equally unworkable unicorn catching devices. It won’t stop socialists, Malthusians and other anti-capitalist activists from using green rhetoric in attempts to whip up resistance to progress and change.
Walter Russell Mead, Via Meadia, 10 March 2012
A senior MP has demanded answers from Energy Ministers as support for the Green Deal appears to have started crumbling away. The Green Deal is scheduled to be launched on October 1 but reports this week suggest the full rollout may be delayed until next year in a wrangle over the payment mechanism. Critics are accusing the Green Deal of being a flawed policy, which could actually double the cost of installing energy efficiency measures, once a list of extra costs are factored in.
Green Click News, 11 March 2012
DECC have spent millions of pounds of tax payers money to arrive at a Green Deal scheme that is nothing more than a very expensive and complex ‘buy now, pay later and pay much more’ finance offering. A scheme that will lead to consumers receiving extremely poor value and that will harm the UK economy and destroy jobs. A way of using subsidies to destroy tens of thousands of longstanding non-subsidised jobs, that’s all that DECC have achieved, is it any wonder they are desperate to promote the Green Deal.
John Oddi, Green Click News, 11 March 2012
I see there are a number of anti-nuclear demonstrations being reported around the world - not least in Japan and Taiwan. Also saw a report that some form of EU movement against Nuclear power was imminent. Something to to do with an EU idea of allowing the 'masses' to propose subjects to be debated. Rather like the Downing Street petition system apparently.
This could get interesting in a number of ways. As the moment, according to the article, energy policy is still one of the (few?) things that National Governments have any control over. Not sure our lot know that.
Anyway, one way or another it's difficult to see how different needs and available resources in the geographically spread collection of odd places that calls itself the EU will fail to lead to misunderstanding and verbal conflicts.
On the other hand what would they do if a counter petition was organised demanding a greater use of such CO2 free (more or less) energy production capability?
One has to wonder if the perception on backpedalling about the 'carbon' message has more to do with a fear of nuclear development (in the short term) than a real change of 'message'.
This could get interesting in a number of ways. As the moment, according to the article, energy policy is still one of the (few?) things that National Governments have any control over. Not sure our lot know that.
Anyway, one way or another it's difficult to see how different needs and available resources in the geographically spread collection of odd places that calls itself the EU will fail to lead to misunderstanding and verbal conflicts.
On the other hand what would they do if a counter petition was organised demanding a greater use of such CO2 free (more or less) energy production capability?
One has to wonder if the perception on backpedalling about the 'carbon' message has more to do with a fear of nuclear development (in the short term) than a real change of 'message'.
Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 13th March 03:41
After Climategate 1.0 the scene was set, after Climategate 2.0 heads were turned in the right places, and after the various IPCC errors and botches then FakeGate there is a real turning away from the false prophets and it's accelerating.
As to what degree of this is present behind policy shifts, compared to the nuclear energy aspect and not forgetting the growing realisation of the uselessness of wind power and its vast cost, it's probably a healthy mix...meaning enough anti-global warming bunk mixed with some remaining pro-nuclear sentiment and a healthy scepticism over windymills.
When contracts run out we are likely to be past peak renewables.
As to what degree of this is present behind policy shifts, compared to the nuclear energy aspect and not forgetting the growing realisation of the uselessness of wind power and its vast cost, it's probably a healthy mix...meaning enough anti-global warming bunk mixed with some remaining pro-nuclear sentiment and a healthy scepticism over windymills.
When contracts run out we are likely to be past peak renewables.
More propaganda tonight, 'Bang goes the theory' prime time BBC1, investigating why fuel prices are so high. The answer - oil is running out, ever more expensive to extract etc etc. Climate and CO2 given several mentions, tax only mentioned for one brief second which is strange given that it is the entire answer to the supposed point of the programme. No mention of carbon permits/carbon credits/carbon trading illusions which the public is paying for.
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