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turbobloke

55,697 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Did he really say that? Then again focusing on human emissions and atmospheric gases is a favourite diversion for those who cannot explain the lack of dangerous warming in the lower troposphere which those emissions are meant to have produced by now.

He apparently lacks a grip on magnitudes, is easily astounded and is speaking from an impressionistic not a scientific perspective. He must also be amazed that in a house with thermostatted central heating on, lighting a candle after opening a lemonade bottle has no permanently dangerous effect on the temperature in a room with the window open.

turbobloke

55,697 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
IAC reporting via The Heartland Institute in American Thinker.



IPCC Acknowledges Past Reports Were Junk

On June 27, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) issued a statement saying it had "complete[d] the process of implementation of a set of recommendations issued in August 2010 by the InterAcademy Council (IAC), the group created by the world's science academies to provide advice to international bodies."

Hidden behind this seemingly routine update on bureaucratic processes is an astonishing and entirely unreported story. The IPCC is the world's most prominent source of alarmist predictions and claims about man-made global warming. Its four reports (a fifth report is scheduled for release in various parts in 2013 and 2014) are cited by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the U.S. and by national academies of science around the world as 'proof' that the global warming of the past five or so decades was both man-made and evidence of a mounting crisis.

If the IPCC's reports were flawed, as a many global warming 'skeptics' have long claimed, then the scientific footing of the man-made global warming movement -- the environmental movement's "mother of all environmental scares" -- is undermined. The Obama administration's war on coal may be unnecessary. Billions of dollars in subsidies to solar and wind may have been wasted. Trillions of dollars of personal income may have been squandered worldwide in campaigns to fix a problem that didn't really exist.

The 'recommendations' issued by the IAC were not minor adjustments to a fundamentally sound scientific procedure. Here are some of the findings of the IAC's 2010 report.

The IAC reported that IPCC lead authors fail to give "due consideration ... to properly documented alternative views" (p. 20), fail to "provide detailed written responses to the most significant review issues identified by the Review Editors" (p. 21), and are not "consider[ing] review comments carefully and document[ing] their responses" (p. 22). In plain English: the IPCC reports are not peer-reviewed.

The IAC found that "the IPCC has no formal process or criteria for selecting authors" and "the selection criteria seemed arbitrary to many respondents" (p. 18). Government officials appoint scientists from their countries and "do not always nominate the best scientists from among those who volunteer, either because they do not know who these scientists are or because political considerations are given more weight than scientific qualifications" (p. 18). In other words: authors are selected from a 'club' of scientists and nonscientists who agree with the alarmist perspective favored by politicians.

The rewriting of the Summary for Policy Makers by politicians and environmental activists -- a problem called out by global warming realists for many years, but with little apparent notice by the media or policymakers -- was plainly admitted, perhaps for the first time by an organization in the "mainstream" of alarmist climate change thinking. "[M]any were concerned that reinterpretations of the assessment's findings, suggested in the final Plenary, might be politically motivated," the IAC auditors wrote. The scientists they interviewed commonly found the Synthesis Report "too political" (p. 25).

Really? Too political? We were told by everyone -- environmentalists, reporters, politicians, even celebrities -- that the IPCC reports were science, not politics. Now we are told that even the scientists involved in writing the reports -- remember, they are all true believers in man-made global warming themselves -- felt the summaries were "too political."

Here is how the IAC described how the IPCC arrives at the 'consensus of scientists': Plenary sessions to approve a Summary for Policy Makers last for several days and commonly end with an all-night meeting. Thus, the individuals with the most endurance or the countries that have large delegations can end up having the most influence on the report (p. 25).

How can such a process possibly be said to capture or represent the "true consensus of scientists"?

Another problem documented by the IAC is the use of phony "confidence intervals" and estimates of "certainty" in the Summary for Policy Makers (pp. 27-34). Those of us who study the IPCC reports knew this was make-believe when we first saw it in 2007. Work by J. Scott Armstrong on the science of forecasting makes it clear that scientists cannot simply gather around a table and vote on how confident they are about some prediction, and then affix a number to it such as "80% confident." Yet that is how the IPCC proceeds.

The IAC authors say it is "not an appropriate way to characterize uncertainty" (p. 34), a huge understatement. Unfortunately, the IAC authors recommend an equally fraudulent substitute, called "level of understanding scale," which is more mush-mouth for "consensus."

The IAC authors warn, also on page 34, that "conclusions will likely be stated so vaguely as to make them impossible to refute, and therefore statements of 'very high confidence' will have little substantive value." Yes, but that doesn't keep the media and environmental activists from citing them over and over again as "proof" that global warming is man-made and a crisis...even if that's not really what the reports' authors are saying.

Finally, the IAC noted, "the lack of a conflict of interest and disclosure policy for IPCC leaders and Lead Authors was a concern raised by a number of individuals who were interviewed by the Committee or provided written input" as well as "the practice of scientists responsible for writing IPCC assessments reviewing their own work. The Committee did not investigate the basis of these claims, which is beyond the mandate of this review" (p. 46).

Too bad, because these are both big issues in light of recent revelations that a majority of the authors and contributors to some chapters of the IPCC reports are environmental activists, not scientists at all. That's a structural problem with the IPCC that could dwarf the big problems already reported.

So on June 27, nearly two years after these bombshells fell (without so much as a raised eyebrow by the mainstream media in the U.S. -- go ahead and try Googling it), the IPCC admits that it was all true and promises to do better for its next report. Nothing to see here...keep on moving.

Well I say, hold on, there! The news release means that the IAC report was right. That, in turn, means that the first four IPCC reports were, in fact, unreliable. Not just "possibly flawed" or "could have been improved," but likely to be wrong and even fraudulent.

It means that all of the "endorsements" of the climate consensus made by the world's national academies of science -- which invariably refer to the reports of the IPCC as their scientific basis -- were based on false or unreliable data and therefore should be disregarded or revised. It means that the EPA's "endangerment finding" -- its claim that carbon dioxide is a pollutant and threat to human health -- was wrong and should be overturned.

And what of the next IPCC report, due out in 2013 and 2014? The near-final drafts of that report have been circulating for months already. They were written by scientists chosen by politicians rather than on the basis of merit; many of them were reviewing their own work and were free to ignore the questions and comments of people with whom they disagree. Instead of "confidence," we will get "level of understanding scales" that are just as meaningless.

And on this basis we should transform the world's economy to run on breezes and sunbeams?

In 2010, we learned that much of what we thought we knew about global warming was compromised and probably false. On June 27, the culprits confessed and promised to do better. But where do we go to get our money back?



IPCC reports as politics more than science has been known for some time and makes the above OK for this thread.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/ipcc_admits...

IainT

8,107 posts

108 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
I wouldn't argue with Attenborough's points. As far as is reasonable they're correct.

What's complete balls is the amount of change down to us versus natural variability and cycles and also the doomsday scenarios painted regarding said change. That and the measures needed to 'combat' it.

Forgetting, if one can, the clear holocaust link with the term 'denier' it's the strawman posited that we're anti-science luddites who deny that the climate changes or that we have any, even if it's barely measurable at best, impact.

Blib

20,903 posts

67 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Blimey, BBC News24 finished a report on parts of America's exceedingly hot weather with the line. "Figures show there's only been two drier occasions in American history. Once in the '30s and once in the '50s."

Context !

IainT

8,107 posts

108 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Blib said:
Blimey, BBC News24 finished a report on parts of America's exceedingly hot weather with the line. "Figures show there's only been two drier occasions in American history. Once in the '30s and once in the '50s."

Context !
Saw the same report earlier on Breakfast. What struck me was the lack of 'since records began in...', I asked the wife how they knew how dry the driest summer 1M years ago was...
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Jasandjules

45,858 posts

99 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
IAC reporting via The Heartland Institute in American Thinker.
Scientists begin serious ar*e covering exercise... The rats are abandoning the ship....

TheHeretic

69,452 posts

125 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Blib said:
Blimey, BBC News24 finished a report on parts of America's exceedingly hot weather with the line. "Figures show there's only been two drier occasions in American history. Once in the '30s and once in the '50s."

Context !
Well, both of those times are before mankind could have made a difference, so perfectly within normal parameters, surely?

turbobloke

55,697 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
Blib said:
Blimey, BBC News24 finished a report on parts of America's exceedingly hot weather with the line. "Figures show there's only been two drier occasions in American history. Once in the '30s and once in the '50s."

Context !
Well, both of those times are before mankind could have made a difference, so perfectly within normal parameters, surely?
Mankind with more tax gas is less 'extreme' than mankind with less.

The sky isn't falling in, the BBC can stop worrying about that and start worrying about its pensions investments.

turbobloke

55,697 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
IainT said:
I wouldn't argue with Attenborough's points. As far as is reasonable they're correct.
Local impacts from mankind yes (LULC UHIE) but globally no. Where's the visible causal human signal in global data? There isn't one. There's no sound science behind a permanent dangerous temperature rise from marginally extra carbon dioxide. One obvious lack of science relates to remembering the Beer Law. Politics remembers to oversimplify and scaremonger.

Blib

20,903 posts

67 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
TheHeretic said:
Blib said:
Blimey, BBC News24 finished a report on parts of America's exceedingly hot weather with the line. "Figures show there's only been two drier occasions in American history. Once in the '30s and once in the '50s."

Context !
Well, both of those times are before mankind could have made a difference, so perfectly within normal parameters, surely?
That's my point. For once the BBC put things in context. They allowed the viewer the opportunity to join the dots.
smile

IainT

8,107 posts

108 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
IainT said:
I wouldn't argue with Attenborough's points. As far as is reasonable they're correct.
Local impacts from mankind yes (LULC UHIE) but globally no. Where's the visible causal human signal in global data? There isn't one. There's no sound science behind a permanent dangerous temperature rise from marginally extra carbon dioxide. One obvious lack of science relates to remembering the Beer Law. Politics remembers to oversimplify and scaremonger.
Which is, amongst other things, what the rest of my post said!

turbobloke

55,697 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
IainT said:
turbobloke said:
IainT said:
I wouldn't argue with Attenborough's points. As far as is reasonable they're correct.
Local impacts from mankind yes (LULC UHIE) but globally no. Where's the visible causal human signal in global data? There isn't one. There's no sound science behind a permanent dangerous temperature rise from marginally extra carbon dioxide. One obvious lack of science relates to remembering the Beer Law. Politics remembers to oversimplify and scaremonger.
Which is, amongst other things, what the rest of my post said!
Fair enough, but Atty isn't correct and I would argue with his points!

You won't need reminding of this mathematically accurate analogy, but I can imagine him standing outside a house at night, a house which has a light on in one room but with 390 blinds pulled down over the window. Hardly a single photon could escape through that lot. When a further million blinds are pulled down (which would have to be done metaphorically) then Attenborough would, it seems, believe truly that it had a measurable effect on trapping more photons merely due to the scale of the human activity involved and the sheer number of blinds pulled down.

He's not making any science sense, but it will resonate with the uninformed unthinging masses - which was presumably the aim in the first place. I appreciate you wouldn't fall for it but some would.


Edited by turbobloke on Tuesday 17th July 12:51

kerplunk

2,942 posts

76 months

Andy Zarse

8,147 posts

117 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
kerplunk said:
Baloney.

chris watton

12,451 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Andy Zarse said:
kerplunk said:
Baloney.
I think that was just a desperate attempt to up the traffic count to a site that has declining visitor numbers….

hehe

Edited by chris watton on Tuesday 17th July 15:23

Jinx

5,907 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
kerplunk said:
KP - really the Mann advocacy site? And from 2007?

Blib

20,903 posts

67 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Oh dear. News24 has just had a Met. Office weatherman on who intimated that Global Warming was to blame for the "meandering" Jet Stream.


Guam

15,575 posts

138 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Jinx said:
KP - really the Mann advocacy site? And from 2007?
rofl

turbobloke

55,697 posts

130 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
Jinx said:
kerplunk said:
KP - really the Mann advocacy site? And from 2007?
The so-called desaturation myth has been dealt with so many times on here. And yes referring to that junkscience repository takes some nerve.

Assume that the absorption near ground level isn't saturated. Assume that 99 point x percent of CO2 absorption band radiation is absorbed within y metres of the ground emission source where y will be a few tens at most. Double the carbon dioxide level. The same level of absorption as before now takes place in half the distance i.e. y/2 metres, a shorter distance of a few metres is not an automatic permanent bulk temperature increase.

The same principle applies to absorption high in the troposphere and/or low in the stratosphere using narrower bands where water and tax gas overlap less. Because the atmospheric pressure is lower the distances will be greater but doubling carbon dioxide levels still means that the same absorption occurs in half the distance. And a shorter distance isn't (etc).

Presumably that junkscience was placed in this thread due to political motivation? Otherwise it could have been hammered in the science thread.

Jasandjules

45,858 posts

99 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th July 2012 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
Presumably that junkscience was placed in this thread due to political motivation? Otherwise it could have been hammered in the science thread.
Well being realistic as there is no actual evidence of AGW, ALL pro-AGW "science" is political...................
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