Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.

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Happy82

15,077 posts

168 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Lost_BMW said:
Just heard Osborne's speech to Conference - some v. promising comments about developing shale gas and the UK not being allowed to fall back behind other countries who use their resources!

Will this signal a shift on wind power too?
How many politicians have their fingers in the wind power pie? I find that little bit of info usually acts as a crystal ball to a lot of policies frown

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

175 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Art0ir said:
“We consider that a binding 2030 target for power sector decarbonisation would help to reduce the political risk currently associated with long term UK industrial investment.”

What does that gobbledybollix mean - words, words without sense, just totally meaningless drivel... oh hang on this is it:

"The targets would effectively promise a return on the investments made by the seven companies but could land businesses and consumers with higher costs.


And the trade unions, presumably working only for workers in that one inefficiently (and corruptly) subsidised industry are wanting to stop the economic benefits to the UK that would accrue from the major use of home sourced gas? Idiots. Partisan idiots.

Companies and investors joined with trade unions, environmental groups and industry bodies to warn Mr Osborne that support for gas power into the 2030s is undermining investment in UK electricity infrastructure.

"In an open letter to the Chancellor on the day he addresses the Conservative Party conference, they demand a target in legislation to decarbonise the power sector to unleash a needed £110 billion investment in electricity supplies."

At our cost no doubt...


"The battle over energy policy was ignited when Mr Davey, a Liberal Democrat, saw off Tory calls for significant cuts to onshore wind farm subsidies - at the price of support for gas up to and beyond 2030.

Wonder where Davey will end up once the Liberal melt down hits seat level and he is out of a tax payer funded job. Energy industry anyone?


Note that this letter was 'organised' (instigated) by this lot:

http://www.aldersgategroup.org.uk/

Just a look at the front page says it all. But how do they manage to taint and buy off leaders in so many firms - it's like some new religion where they get caught up in the messianic drive and guilt trip, so they follow like subscribed sheep.

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Guam said:
And the destruction of Rain Forests for Palm Oil continues unabated.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/08/al-gores-pal...
Al Gore involved in "a globally significant source of carbon dioxide emissions"...?

Shurely shome mishtake...??

rovermorris999

5,195 posts

188 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Lost_BMW said:
Just heard Osborne's speech to Conference - some v. promising comments about developing shale gas and the UK not being allowed to fall back behind other countries who use their resources!

Will this signal a shift on wind power too?
Unfortunately in the same breath he said he was committed to renewables as well.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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chris watton said:
I think this is so wrong on every level. frown
I had a similar issue with EU law at Uni. The answers they wanted were about how wonderful the EU is. When I got my paper remarked it went up rather a lot.....


motco

15,918 posts

245 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
chris watton said:
I think this is so wrong on every level. frown
I had a similar issue with EU law at Uni. The answers they wanted were about how wonderful the EU is. When I got my paper remarked it went up rather a lot.....
An eastern European refugee (Pole I believe) of his acquaintance told my father that when he was a child in USSR he was discouraged from practising his Catholic religion. They were almost always hungry due to food shortages and poverty. At school he was told that if God cared he'd provide food if the Catholics prayed. They prayed - no food. They were then told to pray to Uncle Joe (Stalin) for food. They did, and trolleys of bread were rolled in to the classrooms. In what way is that morally worse than what you describe?

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Monday 8th October 2012
quotequote all
motco said:
In what way is that morally worse than what you describe?
Are you suggesting that two wrongs do make a right?

motco

15,918 posts

245 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Jasandjules said:
motco said:
In what way is that morally worse than what you describe?
Are you suggesting that two wrongs do make a right?
No, sorry - poorly worded. I was illustrating how some acts of the old regimes were vilified by 'the West' and very similar actions were/are carried out within the western establishment. I was endeavouring to suggest that what you described IS as immoral but that most of the brainwashed public would not see the evil in it because it wasn't in the eastern bloc.

LongQ

Original Poster:

13,864 posts

232 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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According to Roger Harrabin at the BBC the EU has realised that they can now go public with misleading propaganda and people probably won't care.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19868580


You probably need to read the pipe dreams yourselves but here is an example.

"The vision is being transmitted through the Commission's website world-you-like and also Facebook and Twitter.

These will create space for positive examples of tackling climate change throughout Europe, including schemes to use excess body heat from one building to warm another (Sweden); allow neighbours to use your car (UK); and generate energy from landfill (Latvia).

Experts in media and marketing have criticised politicians in the past for failing to show people how climate policies could make their own lives better in the short term, as well as reducing planetary risk in the longer term."


So, threesomes from Sweden, an insurance trap from the UK and Latvia playing catch-up.

Is this meant for adults or are the tales aimed at classrooms?

Globs

13,841 posts

230 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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What really bothers me about this political game, apart from the theft, is the deaths:

http://www.energyefficiencynews.com/articles/i/466...

Office_for_National_Statistics said:
"As the consultation on the government’s Green Deal energy efficiency scheme is scheduled to be published, the latest official figures indicate that excess winter deaths for 2010/11 reached 25,700.The figure from the Office for National Statistics is largely unchanged from last year but fuel poverty charity National Energy Action(NEA) says the cold spell in December precipitated a 38% increase in deaths across England and Wales.'
The pseudo-science activists and their deluded hangers on have blood on their hands.

hidetheelephants

23,739 posts

192 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
Globs said:
What really bothers me about this political game, apart from the theft, is the deaths:

http://www.energyefficiencynews.com/articles/i/466...

Office_for_National_Statistics said:
"As the consultation on the government’s Green Deal energy efficiency scheme is scheduled to be published, the latest official figures indicate that excess winter deaths for 2010/11 reached 25,700.The figure from the Office for National Statistics is largely unchanged from last year but fuel poverty charity National Energy Action(NEA) says the cold spell in December precipitated a 38% increase in deaths across England and Wales.'
The pseudo-science activists and their deluded hangers on have blood on their hands.
A stealth solution to the pension crisis?

odyssey2200

18,650 posts

208 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
quotequote all
LongQ said:
schemes to use excess body heat from one building to warm another (Sweden); allow neighbours to use your car (UK); and generate energy from landfill (Latvia).
I have no issue with any of these.
but

1. If anyone want to go off on some hair-brained scheeme then Fine. Don't expect me of other taxt payers to fund it.

2. IF it works, don't expect to be able to force it on unwilling people.

The only thing that I fell " Green" about is landfill.

I Fookin hate it!!


All thet st burried is actually a fuel (can be burned) and created methane (IIRC) when it rots (which is supposed to be an eveil gas) which is anothe fuel.


Blib

43,790 posts

196 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
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Pretty positive that. At leadt they're mit wasting time with vegetable owls.

yes

PRTVR

7,072 posts

220 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
The last line of the article was the best ,
On Tuesday night Mr Paterson described shale gas as a god given windfall that would help Britain solve its energy problems.
It really does look like we might be starting to head in the right direction with our energy needs.

Blib

43,790 posts

196 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
But, do the present mob in charge have the guts and backbone to stand up to the inevitable avalanche of hysterical doom mongering that the Greens and their allies will surely generate?

I doubt it. This will run and run in the courts for years. Even though there's ample evidence across the pond of safe and economical shale gas extraction.

Alice through the looking glass.

Blue62

8,745 posts

151 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Blib said:
But, do the present mob in charge have the guts and backbone to stand up to the inevitable avalanche of hysterical doom mongering that the Greens and their allies will surely generate?

I doubt it. This will run and run in the courts for years. Even though there's ample evidence across the pond of safe and economical shale gas extraction.

Alice through the looking glass.
Funny you should post that as I've recently returned from a spell of working in the US and there are growing concerns over fracking affecting the water, all fairly anecdotal at this stage but genuine nonetheless.

Blib

43,790 posts

196 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Blue62 said:
Funny you should post that as I've recently returned from a spell of working in the US and there are growing concerns over fracking affecting the water, all fairly anecdotal at this stage but genuine nonetheless.
I'd be interested to see where these anecdotes are coming from.

jshell

11,006 posts

204 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Blue62 said:
Funny you should post that as I've recently returned from a spell of working in the US and there are growing concerns over fracking affecting the water, all fairly anecdotal at this stage but genuine nonetheless.
In very shallow reservoirs, yes, there have been problems. We're unlikely to see that over here.

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

175 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Guam said:
Windymills to lose subsidies, I will believe that when it happens!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/9597461/So...
We should all write to Paterson to thank and, especially, to encourage him - plus to recommend he fight the Liberal zealots who are going to cost the govt. support/ votes over their mad and expensive energy policy. Maybe cc Cameron and Osborn in?

Easily enough done here:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/owen_paterson/nor...

might seem naughty (but in a good cause) just use a local postcode to him in Shropshire and the links let you write directly.

Mine's off..!

Lost_BMW

12,955 posts

175 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Oh dear, maybe we're too optimistic. Cameron just banging on about the triumph of our wind power and green energy businesses...
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