Climate change - the POLITICAL debate.
Discussion
Diderot said:
jshell said:
don4l said:
Globs said:
I vote for KP not to be banned,
I agree!We need a dissenting voice to keep the discussion going.
Don
--
k.turbobloke said:
Diderot said:
jshell said:
don4l said:
Globs said:
I vote for KP not to be banned,
I agree!We need a dissenting voice to keep the discussion going.
Don
--
k.Globs said:
While that is said I can see KP is trolling Guam, so maybe the only way to resolve the conflict of KP's belief system and mathematics, here's a couple of questions for you KP, appropriate after I spent a good while this morning scraping quite a bit of very hard global warming off my windscreen.:
1. Do you really think the official figures show any warming over the last 15 years?
2. Is there as much warming as you expected?
3. If there does seem to be a fall or slow-down in the rate of warming, don't you think that's good news?
and
4. Have you been outside today, and if so - what was your view on the temperature, and how do you feel about the weather generally this year?
Lots to get into here. Firstly though your comment about me 'trolling' Guam. Reading it all back I think I was fairly patient with him in fact and don't accept that I was trolling him - giving him some back of what he was giving me for sure but that's not what I think of as 'trolling'. I claim fair comment.1. Do you really think the official figures show any warming over the last 15 years?
2. Is there as much warming as you expected?
3. If there does seem to be a fall or slow-down in the rate of warming, don't you think that's good news?
and
4. Have you been outside today, and if so - what was your view on the temperature, and how do you feel about the weather generally this year?
Right...
1. I think a positive trend is more likely than a flat trend. Why? Cos Dave Britton at the MO says so and that's the most recent word on the matter from an expert that I've read. He posted an extensive reply about the uncertainties on Friday on the MO blog (in reply to a post asking about the Clive Best analysis)
http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2012/10/14/met-...
2. What since August 1997? My first instinct is to instantly discount any analysis that starts with the super el nino of 97/98 so I don't have any expectations of what the warming should be since then. There's probably been less warming in the last 5/6 yrs or so than I would have expected 5 yrs or so ago. You can even get a cooling over recent years and whenever you get a dip that throws up the opportunity to get a flat trend going back much further. A bit like driving over a mountain taking elevation measurements as you go and when you reach the other side, lo - the linear trend shows no change in elevation over the last 15 miles!
3. If it's not just natural variability fooling us with a temporary offsetting of AGW, yes, but I wouldn't count on it.
4. A dreary cold and damp day here and the weather has been generally s
t this year obviously. Better qualified analysis than I can give will come out in due course probably, but you have to think the dramatic changes in the arctic are playing a large part in it (and quite possibly has been doing for the last several years now).Prof Jones still wriggling like a ferret in a bag to conceal ONE email.
Unbelievable stuff.
Part 1
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/10/25/...
Part 2
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/10/26/...
Edit..
Part 3
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/10/29/...
Unbelievable stuff.
Part 1
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/10/25/...
Part 2
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/10/26/...
Edit..
Part 3
http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2012/10/29/...
Edited by mybrainhurts on Monday 29th October 19:26
MARCH 2000
http://travel.aol.co.uk/2012/10/28/are-we-in-for-a...
Independent article said:
Snowfalls are now just a thing of the past.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls...
Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives.
Sledges, snowmen, snowballs and the excitement of waking to find that the stuff has settled outside are all a rapidly diminishing part of Britain's culture, as warmer winters - which scientists are attributing to global climate change - produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries.
The first two months of 2000 were virtually free of significant snowfall in much of lowland Britain, and December brought only moderate snowfall in the South-east. It is the continuation of a trend that has been increasingly visible in the past 15 years: in the south of England, for instance, from 1970 to 1995 snow and sleet fell for an average of 3.7 days, while from 1988 to 1995 the average was 0.7 days. London's last substantial snowfall was in February 1991.
Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community. Average temperatures in Britain were nearly 0.6°C higher in the Nineties than in 1960-90, and it is estimated that they will increase by 0.2C every decade over the coming century. Eight of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the Nineties.
However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".
"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.
OCTOBER 2012http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/snowfalls...
Britain's winter ends tomorrow with further indications of a striking environmental change: snow is starting to disappear from our lives.
Sledges, snowmen, snowballs and the excitement of waking to find that the stuff has settled outside are all a rapidly diminishing part of Britain's culture, as warmer winters - which scientists are attributing to global climate change - produce not only fewer white Christmases, but fewer white Januaries and Februaries.
The first two months of 2000 were virtually free of significant snowfall in much of lowland Britain, and December brought only moderate snowfall in the South-east. It is the continuation of a trend that has been increasingly visible in the past 15 years: in the south of England, for instance, from 1970 to 1995 snow and sleet fell for an average of 3.7 days, while from 1988 to 1995 the average was 0.7 days. London's last substantial snowfall was in February 1991.
Global warming, the heating of the atmosphere by increased amounts of industrial gases, is now accepted as a reality by the international community. Average temperatures in Britain were nearly 0.6°C higher in the Nineties than in 1960-90, and it is estimated that they will increase by 0.2C every decade over the coming century. Eight of the 10 hottest years on record occurred in the Nineties.
However, the warming is so far manifesting itself more in winters which are less cold than in much hotter summers. According to Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,within a few years winter snowfall will become "a very rare and exciting event".
"Children just aren't going to know what snow is," he said.
http://travel.aol.co.uk/2012/10/28/are-we-in-for-a...
AOL Article said:
Are we in for a freezing winter?
The Daily Star reports that the Met Office has just prepared its three-month outlook for government ministers and council bosses. These are no longer released to the general public but Daily Star reporters have seen the documents and warn that we should get our winter woolies ready as it looks like we're going to need them.
The report reveals that we should expect "slightly below average" temperatures from November through to January. And average rainfall combined with cold temperatures could lead to heavy snowfall.
More high pressure is predicted, which could cut off mild Atlantic air and lead to repeat of December 2010's big freeze.
The Met Office bases its winter forecast on past observations, forecast models and "expert forecaster judgement". The system also uses new software to spot weather patterns that may have previously been missed.
The Daily Star reports that two other independent forecasters have also predicted a chilly winter.
British Weather Services predicts colder than average temperatures with "significant" snow and WeatherWeb warned that, "Cold is the main feature of this winter."
After the travel chaos of winter 2010, the Local Government Association now has hundreds of gritters on standby to treat icy roads, with new fleets of GPS-tracked gritting trucks and specialist vehicles for hilly streets.
The Express reports that a LGA spokesman said councils in England and Wales had 1.3 million tonnes of salt in depots, which is double the amount used last winter.
Thousands of new grit bins have also been placed on streets and 'Gritter Twitter' feeds and Facebook pages have been set up to provide information about local services.
The Daily Star reports that the Met Office has just prepared its three-month outlook for government ministers and council bosses. These are no longer released to the general public but Daily Star reporters have seen the documents and warn that we should get our winter woolies ready as it looks like we're going to need them.
The report reveals that we should expect "slightly below average" temperatures from November through to January. And average rainfall combined with cold temperatures could lead to heavy snowfall.
More high pressure is predicted, which could cut off mild Atlantic air and lead to repeat of December 2010's big freeze.
The Met Office bases its winter forecast on past observations, forecast models and "expert forecaster judgement". The system also uses new software to spot weather patterns that may have previously been missed.
The Daily Star reports that two other independent forecasters have also predicted a chilly winter.
British Weather Services predicts colder than average temperatures with "significant" snow and WeatherWeb warned that, "Cold is the main feature of this winter."
After the travel chaos of winter 2010, the Local Government Association now has hundreds of gritters on standby to treat icy roads, with new fleets of GPS-tracked gritting trucks and specialist vehicles for hilly streets.
The Express reports that a LGA spokesman said councils in England and Wales had 1.3 million tonnes of salt in depots, which is double the amount used last winter.
Thousands of new grit bins have also been placed on streets and 'Gritter Twitter' feeds and Facebook pages have been set up to provide information about local services.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshi...
An odd story.
Why would a school have a biomass boiler room?
Or, looking at a different angle on this, how many schools have biomass boiler rooms?
And why?
There could potentially, in some locations, be a case for using biomass in preference to anything else but we are not told why this particular school was equipped with a biomass boiler even though the fuelling method is a particular point of interest it seems.
How many schools have biomass boilers compared to other energy sources and a comparison of their relative rates of conflagration might be of interest for assessment of their relative effectiveness.
Or maybe not.
An odd story.
Why would a school have a biomass boiler room?
Or, looking at a different angle on this, how many schools have biomass boiler rooms?
And why?
There could potentially, in some locations, be a case for using biomass in preference to anything else but we are not told why this particular school was equipped with a biomass boiler even though the fuelling method is a particular point of interest it seems.
How many schools have biomass boilers compared to other energy sources and a comparison of their relative rates of conflagration might be of interest for assessment of their relative effectiveness.
Or maybe not.
Guam said:
Oh and the "you are all in the pockets of big oil meme" finaly gets vapourised with this
"Mr Brown said the EU’s Emission Trading Scheme (ETS), designed to reduce emissions by placing a price on carbon, “doesn’t work”. “CO2 is priced at such a low level it’s meaningless,” he said. “We want a higher CO2 price. Power generators would then make the right economic decision for Europe, for gas. Renewables and gas work very well together.”
Shell oil
Article here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/en...
Observations and commentary on this here"Mr Brown said the EU’s Emission Trading Scheme (ETS), designed to reduce emissions by placing a price on carbon, “doesn’t work”. “CO2 is priced at such a low level it’s meaningless,” he said. “We want a higher CO2 price. Power generators would then make the right economic decision for Europe, for gas. Renewables and gas work very well together.”
Shell oil
Article here.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/en...
Hardly a surprise, big Shell has been pumping funds into the 'Green' movement for some years.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned...
...but over at www.steynonline.com they're having more fun with 'hockey stick Mann', whereby the upright professor has been ridiculed for claiming to be a Nobel laureate, even in the court documents. He isn't. He may have been a part of the team who advised the IPCC etc, and received a note of thanks, but he apparently likes a bit of self-promotion.
...but over at www.steynonline.com they're having more fun with 'hockey stick Mann', whereby the upright professor has been ridiculed for claiming to be a Nobel laureate, even in the court documents. He isn't. He may have been a part of the team who advised the IPCC etc, and received a note of thanks, but he apparently likes a bit of self-promotion.
The Don of Croy said:
Apologies if this has already been mentioned...
...but over at www.steynonline.com they're having more fun with 'hockey stick Mann', whereby the upright professor has been ridiculed for claiming to be a Nobel laureate, even in the court documents. He isn't. He may have been a part of the team who advised the IPCC etc, and received a note of thanks, but he apparently likes a bit of self-promotion.
Par for the course and to be expected, but no less unedifying when the expectation is met......but over at www.steynonline.com they're having more fun with 'hockey stick Mann', whereby the upright professor has been ridiculed for claiming to be a Nobel laureate, even in the court documents. He isn't. He may have been a part of the team who advised the IPCC etc, and received a note of thanks, but he apparently likes a bit of self-promotion.
German Christian Democrats Commit Green Suicide
People who make themselves green will be gobbled up by goats.(Johann Wolfgang von Goat)
Germany’s modern populace who live in cities and no longer vote for the Christian Democratic Party (CDU) are beginning again to look for a political party they can vote for. Especially in the affluent Southwest of the Republic the conservative party is under growing threat by the green party. First the CDU lost the state election in Baden-Wuerttemberg to the Greens, and now they also lost the mayoral election in Stuttgart to the Green Party. In Germany, the electorate today is divided along these lines: those who vote for the authentic Greens, those who stay at home, and those who do not change their voting behaviour. As a result, the decline of the party of Konrad Adenauer and Ludwig Erhard will not be halted any time soon.
Günter Ederer, Fulder Zeitung, 25 October 2012
yes the quote is actually von Goethe
People who make themselves green will be gobbled up by goats.(Johann Wolfgang von Goat)
Germany’s modern populace who live in cities and no longer vote for the Christian Democratic Party (CDU) are beginning again to look for a political party they can vote for. Especially in the affluent Southwest of the Republic the conservative party is under growing threat by the green party. First the CDU lost the state election in Baden-Wuerttemberg to the Greens, and now they also lost the mayoral election in Stuttgart to the Green Party. In Germany, the electorate today is divided along these lines: those who vote for the authentic Greens, those who stay at home, and those who do not change their voting behaviour. As a result, the decline of the party of Konrad Adenauer and Ludwig Erhard will not be halted any time soon.
Günter Ederer, Fulder Zeitung, 25 October 2012
yes the quote is actually von Goethe
The Don of Croy said:
Apologies if this has already been mentioned...
...but over at www.steynonline.com they're having more fun with 'hockey stick Mann', whereby the upright professor has been ridiculed for claiming to be a Nobel laureate, even in the court documents. He isn't. He may have been a part of the team who advised the IPCC etc, and received a note of thanks, but he apparently likes a bit of self-promotion.
The Nobel committee have declined to confirm that Mann is entitled to claim that he was awarded a Nobel prize. Now Mann is trying to hide the decline. ...but over at www.steynonline.com they're having more fun with 'hockey stick Mann', whereby the upright professor has been ridiculed for claiming to be a Nobel laureate, even in the court documents. He isn't. He may have been a part of the team who advised the IPCC etc, and received a note of thanks, but he apparently likes a bit of self-promotion.
There is a bit of a party atmosphere on WUWT as well. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/23/breaking-man...
Don
--
Guam said:
http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/10/28/mich...
More on mann with some scathing comments
This bloke is an utter joke now
Excellent stuff!More on mann with some scathing comments
This bloke is an utter joke now
I especially like this post below the article:
cbltoo said:
Here is Nobel’s response to the query:
1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma.
3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.
“Unfortunately we often experience that members of organizations that have indeed been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize issue various forms of personal diplomas to indicate that they personally have received the Nobel Peace Prize. They have not.”
How up his own arse is Mann to do such a thing!1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma.
3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.
“Unfortunately we often experience that members of organizations that have indeed been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize issue various forms of personal diplomas to indicate that they personally have received the Nobel Peace Prize. They have not.”
Cat amongst the greenies!
Watch them squeel..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/25/...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/25/...
These times, they are a changin'
edited to add another juicy link
Watch them squeel..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/25/...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/25/...
These times, they are a changin'
edited to add another juicy link
Edited by Ali G on Monday 29th October 18:37
"Green campaigners comdemn Lilley's appointment"
Pathetic. Expected, but pathetic.
This lot must have such an overwhelmingly compelling case given they don't object to close scrutiny by independent minded intelligent educated people and would never seek a pre-selected bunch of gullible believers with vested interests to scrutinise government policy
Pathetic. Expected, but pathetic.
This lot must have such an overwhelmingly compelling case given they don't object to close scrutiny by independent minded intelligent educated people and would never seek a pre-selected bunch of gullible believers with vested interests to scrutinise government policy
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