We need more industry

[DJC]

69 coupe said:

But the world doesn't run on bleeding edge tech, a cooking pot made in the 60's isn't going to be much different in 2050, most day to day stuff is pretty basic.
Again is there any company that could make the iphone type tech and supply the world in the UK, I wish there was but i can't think who.
Most high tech seems to comes from the far east, maybe designed in the West but for how long, can designed in the UK support our working population in the long run. If so I'd be very glad.

No, the world doesnt. It runs on a mixture of bleeding edge, leading edge, mainstream and obsolete/maintainence contracts.

The world doesnt run on cooking pots.

Most high tech does not come from the Far East. In fact almost no high tech comes from the Far East, mass produced tech comes from the Far East, not high tech.

This iphone lark you are on about. Yes, there are plenty of companies, but that isnt high tech, its piss poor tech with piss poor software! You just dont know that because its all you see and you think its high tech.

Is there anything else I can correct you on?


I cant work out whether Im getting annoyed or depressed with some of you.

Edited by DJC on Tuesday 22 February 14:13

[69 coupe]

No thanks I don't need you to correct me on anything!

[DJC]

69 coupe said:

No thanks I don't need you to correct me on anything!

You mean apart from all of the above?

[69 coupe]

DJC said:

69 coupe said:

No thanks I don't need you to correct me on anything!

You mean apart from all of the above?

Still haven't mentioned one UK firm that can build a 'low tech' iPhone and supply the world from the UK. Amstrad BAE

ARM maybe, but think they only design chips and licence, heck we have even got the allegedly Chinese Military PLA 'Huawei' supplying major kit for BT (21cn) and throwing in a £50 million Olympic freebie to supply and install mobile comms for the London underground. All with the threat of a stuxnet style attack.

Remember this post is about needing more industry and about keeping the working population of the UK in employment not the relativity small numbers of highly skilled designers engineers in hyperspace jobs.

I really do hope I'm wrong.

[Fatman2]

DJC said:

Its a high end world, high end industry, high margins, high skill based and I keep banging this drum because we are actually pretty damn good at this stuff. The space and satellite industry is currently blooming aswell and will only continue to grow, esp as it becomes more corporate and less govt based. Guess which engineers are most in demand around Europe? You want a new aerospace industry? Its on a plate right now if someone wants it.

High end, possibly. High margins, definitely not.

I've worked in the satellite and space industry for over 10 years and there certainly isn't any money in satellite manufacture. Hence why there's been a big shift into services.

BAe dropped the space side of things many moons ago because it wasn't profitable and even under the EADS umbrella it's Airbus that dominates the share price by a long way.

Not sure I'd say it was blooming though. Astrium hit it's high a year or so ago and whilst busy, don't have the order book they did a few years back. Aircraft on the other hand is pretty buoyant if job recs are anything to go by.

[DJC]

Fatman2 said:

High end, possibly. High margins, definitely not.

I've worked in the satellite and space industry for over 10 years and there certainly isn't any money in satellite manufacture. Hence why there's been a big shift into services.

BAe dropped the space side of things many moons ago because it wasn't profitable and even under the EADS umbrella it's Airbus that dominates the share price by a long way.

Not sure I'd say it was blooming though. Astrium hit it's high a year or so ago and whilst busy, don't have the order book they did a few years back. Aircraft on the other hand is pretty buoyant if job recs are anything to go by.

The service model has always been the most profitable one for all aspect of engineering/produced goods. The manufacturing and production of the good has to happen first though and the more services that product can provide, the more profit the service contract will bring.

Another Astrium chap per chance? Stv, Pompey?
Astrium's order book on the govt contract work side took a hammering last year. The commercial side of the industry though is starting to pick up and will only increase in the future as commercial overtakes govt work. On the European side of the industry the amount of work currently going on is nuts. Interestingly the amount of work comming in from non-traditional Western countries we are seeing is continually increasing aswell.

Ex-Astrium here, unfortunately Im now the other side of the fence and the buggers are my customers. There is also the matter of how well run/how mature the space industry is, but that is another debate entirely! Im sure you could rant about that as much as I.

[Fatman2]

DJC said:

The service model has always been the most profitable one for all aspect of engineering/produced goods. The manufacturing and production of the good has to happen first though and the more services that product can provide, the more profit the service contract will bring.

Another Astrium chap per chance? Stv, Pompey?
Astrium's order book on the govt contract work side took a hammering last year. The commercial side of the industry though is starting to pick up and will only increase in the future as commercial overtakes govt work. On the European side of the industry the amount of work currently going on is nuts. Interestingly the amount of work comming in from non-traditional Western countries we are seeing is continually increasing aswell.

Ex-Astrium here, unfortunately Im now the other side of the fence and the buggers are my customers. There is also the matter of how well run/how mature the space industry is, but that is another debate entirely! Im sure you could rant about that as much as I.

Yup another Astrium chap, STV

I've since left though and am now working in aircraft as I fancied a change. Loved working there though so hope to go back at some stage.

LOL at the organisation. IMO Astrium is run pretty well compared to Airbus

[DJC]

Worked for both old boy

I got out of the aero for space as I could only see the aero world going through painful times a cpl of yrs back.

[Shay HTFC]

ewenm said:

Twincam16 said:

As James May once said, 'there's no such thing as 'alternative energy', there's just 'energy'.' We'd be mad not to look at some of the most powerful and inextinguishable sources of energy the world has to offer - in particular tidal bores and solar radiation - and not harness it en masse while saving us all some money in the process.

A solar array in the Sahara would provide most of Europe's electricity for starters. And then there's tidal power - regular, unending source of predictable energy not beholden to Middle Eastern politics or a lack of wind over the moors.

Also, once genetically-modified algae can be engineered to create carbon-neutral petrol, we'll need large areas to 'grow' it - and that'll need special facilities and lots of jobs. Producing it for the UK (as it would be produced anywhere) should keep shipping costs down and it'll make more sense to hire local workers.

But if we continue to let a relatively small number of sceptics in the banking sector stick their heads in the sand and refuse to invest, we'll get left behind, and all we'll have left is, well, the banks. And then we'll end up like Switzerland.

The issue with most of those is that they are only "green" in terms of carbon dioxide (and then only once you've constructed them). In terms of impact on their local environment they aren't very "green" at all. The Severn Estuary tidal range/bore for example - most of that is an area of scientific interest and sticking a tidal power generator across it might not be the best for the local flora & fauna. Large areas for algae farms - at the expense of what habitat?

I'm not against these ideas per se, but claiming they are "environmental" can be somewhat overstated. "Green" has become synonymous with "CO2" and other significant environmental issues get brushed aside. Of course, as a businessman, I'd be looking for the "green" opportunities and selling to those for whom CO2 is the be all and end all.

Edit: Obviously I'm wandering off topic as the true "greenness" of a proposal has little relevance to whether someone can employ lots of people to do it or not. I'm not entirely sure that the CO2 bandwagon isn't one the wheels will fall off in the continued stagnation/recession/depression. When times are good it's easy to buy into ideological causes, when times are bad people tend to focus on their core needs.

Edited by ewenm on Monday 21st February 23:07

You're getting hung up on the fact that these technologies are calling themselves green when they are not. Forget about that.
The bottom line is that energy costs money and potentially the cheapest, most efficient way to gather our energy is to harness the power of nature. Oil is old-tech.
For example, cars won't run on petrol for ever, even if there is still oil in the ground. Electric cars have the potential to be cheaper, more efficient and basically better than petrol cars whether there is oil in the ground or not. Oil will be generally redundant as an energy source and electricity will be the leading fuel of the future, so why not start investing in order to be at the leading edge of this technology.

Whether or not you agree with the whole 'green' argument, the point is that 'alternative' energy (as already said, there is no such thing as alternative energy, there's just energy) will be the defacto form of energy in the future. Maybe Britain can for once be at the leading edge of something rather than always playing catch up.

[crankedup]

Another old thread, discussing growth or lack of it. China was powering ahead with its industries, how things quickly change.

[Cyder]

DonkeyApple said:

Hand built things are st. Look at any handbuilt car and compare it to a machine built car. They are badly put tgether, bug ridden pups. Astons only started staying together when they started using modern tech.

Snipped this, apart from the shell being welded almost every other component on a car production line is assembled and fitted by hand.

Even mass produced cars are far more hand-built than maybe people think they are.

[Zod]

crankedup, find a way to compete with the Chinese industries on cost and you'll win the Nobel Prize for ecnomics.

[crankedup]

Zod said:

crankedup, find a way to compete with the Chinese industries on cost and you'll win the Nobel Prize for ecnomics.

Indeed Zod, indeed. We know the Chinese workers are getting restless with their lot that is underpaid, overworked while the Company owners rake it in. Sounds strangely a familiar theme, but don't want to argue on that one. And I guess with such a mega huge workforce pool for industry to dip into they are in a strong position to hold those wages down, bad news for us. I recall mentioning in an earlier thread that we should not compete against the Chinese on what they are good and cheap at, rather we should build up on our own strengths and sell that on the Global market. Such as what is happening with Samsung buying into CRT at Cambridge.

[turbobloke]

crankedup said:

Zod said:

crankedup, find a way to compete with the Chinese industries on cost and you'll win the Nobel Prize for ecnomics.

Indeed Zod, indeed. We know the Chinese workers are getting restless with their lot that is underpaid, overworked while the Company owners rake it in. Sounds strangely a familiar theme, but don't want to argue on that one. And I guess with such a mega huge workforce pool for industry to dip into they are in a strong position to hold those wages down, bad news for us. I recall mentioning in an earlier thread that we should not compete against the Chinese on what they are good and cheap at, rather we should build up on our own strengths and sell that on the Global market. Such as what is happening with Samsung buying into CRT at Cambridge.

It depends how long we can afford to wait. As time goes by the Chinese will become more like the west, generally richer and not just the bosses, people with more time on their hands, self-indulgent and eventually self-loathing which will lead to more activism on social and environ mental issues both incurring massive costs. If the regime hasn't adapted that could include lives. By then even more people over here will have seen tax gas environ mentalism for the costly scam it is, there might even have been welfare reforms worthy of the name, and with our lifestyle down the tubes already our costs will be lower and we will be able to compete again on the way up as China, possibly, heads down the slope we're currently approaching the bottom of.