Libya.

[Mojocvh]

tinman0 said:

What's with the attempt to try and guilt us, the UK, with the actions of Libya?

And if you are going to get on your high horse, at least have the decency to spell the name of the country correctly. Then we'd think you were some way current on Libya's history, rather than jumping on some guilt bandwagon.

Well I did a spelling mistake. Oops sorry.


No. Neither I nor my country of birth have the slightest feeling of guilt over events in Libya, in fact just the opposite.


Right just off to kick the Arse out of the spell checker........

[tinman0]

Mojocvh said:

Right just off to kick the Arse out of the spell checker........

[Jasandjules]

The question is where will it go from here? Civil War?

[Derek Smith]

Jasandjules said:

The question is where will it go from here? Civil War?

The great imponderable. The fear is that the USA will get involved which will encourage Russia and China to stick their oars in. And then there's Israel.

The middle east has been a tinderbox all my life and looks like being so for some time to come.

Was it T. E. Lawrence who once said that the worst thing to happen to the Middle East was to find oil underneath it? If a cheap energy source could be found and powerful countries didn't stick their noses into sandy places then it would find its level and we'd be happy and they wouldn't be that fussed about which bit of sand they were in charge of.

I don't think it has reached civil war yet even in Libya but it must be getting near the balancing point. The army is the one that will decide. At the moment it is being given its head and this means that they might try and topple Ghaddafi and replace him with some colonel, general or admiral, someone more amenable to the leaders around them.

The two things that are of real worry are the straights and if one Arab state invades another.

There are a number of countries that want access to ME oil.

In years to come they'll write about this period in history.

[Jimbeaux]

cazzer said:

Jimbeaux said:

Come on guys, if you want real carnage look to the US's south. Since Mexico's Calderone has declared war on the cartels, in 2006, 30,000 people have been killed in cartel violence. 6,000 were killed just last year. Anyway, back on topic.

and yet people still eat tacos. Its really handwringingly terrible.

Tacos are Tex-Mex, nothing to with Mexico really.

[Police State]

Jasandjules said:

The question is where will it go from here? Civil War?

No, Gaddafi will do a runner. He's an old man, 40 years, nothing else to do. His Son will never be able to succeed him. His day's are numbered.

Edited by Police State on Monday 21st February 00:20

[munroman]

Ambassadors to China and India resigned, rumours Gadaffi is in Venezuela.

[allnighter]

Substantial revenues from the energy sector coupled with a small population give Libya one of the highest per capita GDPs in Africa (that's $22000.00 per Libyan), but little of this income flows down to the lower orders of society.It explains Gaddafi's reluctance to change, and I doubt very much he's ready for change.This is going to be a long battle, meanwhile the death toll keeps rising.

[Victor McDade]

Gaddafi jnr's speech in full:

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/exiledsurfer/~oJi...

He sounded seriously deranged. I especially enjoyed the notion that all the trouble was being stirred up by al-Jazeera, the BBC, the Arab world, Africa, Europe, the US, tank-stealing, drug-crazed, separatist Islamists, when not Tweeting students in Tunisia and Egypt.

[tinman0]

Victor McDade said:

He sounded seriously deranged. I especially enjoyed the notion that all the trouble was being stirred up by al-Jazeera, the BBC, the Arab world, Africa, Europe, the US, tank-stealing, drug-crazed, separatist Islamists, when not Tweeting students in Tunisia and Egypt.

None of them have really worked out that the game is up, and rather than be the hero from this by leading their country into a full democratic republic and walking away a hero (spin: I brought this country through it's dark ages, dark forces, and turned it into a full democracy), thereby assuring their place in history. (Obviously, they can write that bit of history themselves).

They could also work out a retirement package on their terms - eg $5bn in cash in Switzerland and a safe haven in another country, and maybe a get out of jail card for any genocide they may have done.

No, they milk it right to the last moment before fleeing the country in disgrace and forgoing the hero thing, and spending the rest of their lives in court trying to get their assets unfrozen repeatedly, and living as a despised human being, wondering if a shop keeper in Tripoli has a contract on them. Unless they get grabbed like the Romanian couple and get shot after a very short trial ("all those that don't like Ceaușescu?" "aye" "motion passed, take em round back and shoot them.").

[neil_bolton]

Slight aside, but I especially like the irony of how the UK gov. is moaning and grumbling like buggery about the resistance against protestors and how horrible it is that free speech is being restricted.

Oh wait.

Hang on.

Conveniently forgotton about your own laws in the UK regarding protesting and use of terrorism laws to restrict free speech etc etc?

[Jimbeaux]

munroman said:

Ambassadors to China and India resigned, rumours Gadaffi is in Venezuela.

Excellent, when Goldeneye comes online for Hugo, they can widen the beam and get Gadaffi at the same time. Two birds with one stone, one beam, lower carbon footprint.

[allnighter]

Victor McDade said:

Gaddafi jnr's speech in full:

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/exiledsurfer/~oJi...

He sounded seriously deranged. I especially enjoyed the notion that all the trouble was being stirred up by al-Jazeera, the BBC, the Arab world, Africa, Europe, the US, tank-stealing, drug-crazed, separatist Islamists, when not Tweeting students in Tunisia and Egypt.

Yep, as father as son,and living up to his name (The sword of Islam).He vowed to fight to the last person and last bullet and not give in to protesters, wagging his finger in the process.A very nice person indeed.Good genes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEupW-kvdBo

[Jimbeaux]

allnighter said:

Victor McDade said:

Gaddafi jnr's speech in full:

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/exiledsurfer/~oJi...

He sounded seriously deranged. I especially enjoyed the notion that all the trouble was being stirred up by al-Jazeera, the BBC, the Arab world, Africa, Europe, the US, tank-stealing, drug-crazed, separatist Islamists, when not Tweeting students in Tunisia and Egypt.

Yep, as father as son,and living up to his name (The sword of Islam).He vowed to fight to the last person and last bullet and not give in to protesters, wagging his finger in the process.A very nice person indeed.Good genes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEupW-kvdBo

Perhaps he has post traumatice stress syndrome from Reagan dropping a bomb on their asses in the 80s.

[allnighter]

Jimbeaux said:

allnighter said:

Victor McDade said:

Gaddafi jnr's speech in full:

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/exiledsurfer/~oJi...

He sounded seriously deranged. I especially enjoyed the notion that all the trouble was being stirred up by al-Jazeera, the BBC, the Arab world, Africa, Europe, the US, tank-stealing, drug-crazed, separatist Islamists, when not Tweeting students in Tunisia and Egypt.

Yep, as father as son,and living up to his name (The sword of Islam).He vowed to fight to the last person and last bullet and not give in to protesters, wagging his finger in the process.A very nice person indeed.Good genes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEupW-kvdBo

Perhaps he has post traumatice stress syndrome from Reagan dropping a bomb on their asses in the 80s.

What has that to do with this post ? I know you have a quota of Yank posturing to carry out; at least wait for a better segue.

[fido]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaan...

yikes .. it sounds like it's game over for the regime .. didn't really pay attention till the 'London School of Economics' put out a statement {sarcasm}

[Victor McDade]

I would not say it's game over yet. The problem with Libya is that no other major power really has any great leverage over them. If we took Egypt's example, I think Mubarak would still be there and fighting had it not been for American pressure. Likewise with Tunisia and Saudi pressure.

Can't really see an effective carrot and stick when it comes to Libya though.

[Roop]

As an aside, although slightly more PH related: Now that it's kicking off in Tripoli, spare a thought for PH's very own 'Gaffer' who is trapped there at this very moment. Not great, really.

[Jimbeaux]

allnighter said:

Jimbeaux said:

allnighter said:

Victor McDade said:

Gaddafi jnr's speech in full:

http://www.tweetdeck.com/twitter/exiledsurfer/~oJi...

He sounded seriously deranged. I especially enjoyed the notion that all the trouble was being stirred up by al-Jazeera, the BBC, the Arab world, Africa, Europe, the US, tank-stealing, drug-crazed, separatist Islamists, when not Tweeting students in Tunisia and Egypt.

Yep, as father as son,and living up to his name (The sword of Islam).He vowed to fight to the last person and last bullet and not give in to protesters, wagging his finger in the process.A very nice person indeed.Good genes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEupW-kvdBo

Perhaps he has post traumatice stress syndrome from Reagan dropping a bomb on their asses in the 80s.

What has that to do with this post ? I know you have a quota of Yank posturing to carry out; at least wait for a better segue.

Good one!

[Jimbeaux]

hora said:

Jasandjules said:

The question is where will it go from here? Civil War?

Yes, The Warfalah Tribe (largest in Libya) has come out behind the Protesters.

Its going to get very messy

The ironic thing is unless Gadaffi and his family flee they will meet a nasty end.

Security forces will be decimated seeing as they are complicit and I bet you a tenner America steps in at somepoint sneaking away the oil rights...

That would be great, sneaking off with the oil rights. Aren't there other countries that are surely wanting to do the same?