Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
An alleged chemical weapons attack.
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Driller said:
An alleged chemical weapons attack.
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Is there any EU/US backed gas supply pipeline construction underway from Sudan to the EU, that will cut the Ruskies out of the equation, that I'm not aware of?If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Driller said:
An alleged chemical weapons attack.
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Is there any EU/US backed gas supply pipeline construction underway from Sudan to the EU, that will cut the Ruskies out of the equation, that I'm not aware of?If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Do you know, I don't think there is!
Driller said:
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Driller said:
An alleged chemical weapons attack.
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Is there any EU/US backed gas supply pipeline construction underway from Sudan to the EU, that will cut the Ruskies out of the equation, that I'm not aware of?If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Do you know, I don't think there is!
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Driller said:
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Driller said:
An alleged chemical weapons attack.
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Is there any EU/US backed gas supply pipeline construction underway from Sudan to the EU, that will cut the Ruskies out of the equation, that I'm not aware of?If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Do you know, I don't think there is!
Staff officers of US Marine Corps, including General Joseph F. Dunford, do not want to include Salafi Jihad to the list of US enemies
…Special Operations Command wants the National Military Strategy to specifically name Salafi jihadism as the doctrine that inspires violent Muslim extremists. Salafi jihadism is a branch within Sunni Islam. It is embraced by the Islamic State and used to justify its mass killings of nonbelievers, including Shiite Muslims, Sunnis and Kurds, as well as Christians. People knowledgeable about the discussion told The Washington Times that SOCOM has not been able to persuade Gen. Dunford’s staff to include Salafi jihadism in any strategy draft.”
read of that what you will...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-29/us-suspen...
…Special Operations Command wants the National Military Strategy to specifically name Salafi jihadism as the doctrine that inspires violent Muslim extremists. Salafi jihadism is a branch within Sunni Islam. It is embraced by the Islamic State and used to justify its mass killings of nonbelievers, including Shiite Muslims, Sunnis and Kurds, as well as Christians. People knowledgeable about the discussion told The Washington Times that SOCOM has not been able to persuade Gen. Dunford’s staff to include Salafi jihadism in any strategy draft.”
read of that what you will...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-29/us-suspen...
Edited by discusdave on Thursday 29th September 21:18
Edited by discusdave on Thursday 29th September 21:18
The Russians and America with all of their respective (or should that be respectful) minions will continue with the rhetoric / excuses for as long as it takes. And it will take forever!! The west wants / wanted Oil, Middle Eastern Countries have a lot of it, end of!
Unfortunately what they, our great leaders that is, fail to grasp, or pretend to, whilst continuing to preach peace and love,is that these countries need a C*nt in charge!!
It's the same every time. The West invades / interferes to 'Save' the people from oppression, and it goes T*ts Up! Every F*kin Time!! Saddam dead and the faeces hits the fan, Gadhafi and the faeces hits the fan, Assad, On-going! Afghanistan, how many times have they been 'Invaded, and by how many 'Civilized' Countries? How many times have these invasions, peacekeeping forces been successful?
In the meantime, we, the West, or more importantly, the F*kin Idiots in charge at our end of things, claim that we are right and they are wrong! They, Middle East, have a totally different outlook and lifestyle to us but NO, They should have our lifestyle because we are right!!The Idiots in charge play their own game, for their benefit, nobody else's FFS!
Putin will play EVERYONE and Russia will follow him because the people of Russia have No Choice! What are we going to do there? Invade to 'save' the Russian People?? Welcome to Armageddon, the new Biggest Game Show on the F*kin Planet cos Putin will not back down!!
The west have armed both sides forever, the British will continue to arm the Saudis and anybody else who wants, we supplied Saddam, Gadhafi, Afghanistan along with The Good Old U S of A, and plenty of others that we will never know about!
I don't like being kept on a constant state of induced fear, defcon *kin 5, because the prats in charge in most Western / 'Civilized' countries bit off a f*ck site more than they ever imagined possible, because we no longer understand Religious Fanaticism.
And Breath! Sorry for yet another Rant!!
Unfortunately what they, our great leaders that is, fail to grasp, or pretend to, whilst continuing to preach peace and love,is that these countries need a C*nt in charge!!
It's the same every time. The West invades / interferes to 'Save' the people from oppression, and it goes T*ts Up! Every F*kin Time!! Saddam dead and the faeces hits the fan, Gadhafi and the faeces hits the fan, Assad, On-going! Afghanistan, how many times have they been 'Invaded, and by how many 'Civilized' Countries? How many times have these invasions, peacekeeping forces been successful?
In the meantime, we, the West, or more importantly, the F*kin Idiots in charge at our end of things, claim that we are right and they are wrong! They, Middle East, have a totally different outlook and lifestyle to us but NO, They should have our lifestyle because we are right!!The Idiots in charge play their own game, for their benefit, nobody else's FFS!
Putin will play EVERYONE and Russia will follow him because the people of Russia have No Choice! What are we going to do there? Invade to 'save' the Russian People?? Welcome to Armageddon, the new Biggest Game Show on the F*kin Planet cos Putin will not back down!!
The west have armed both sides forever, the British will continue to arm the Saudis and anybody else who wants, we supplied Saddam, Gadhafi, Afghanistan along with The Good Old U S of A, and plenty of others that we will never know about!
I don't like being kept on a constant state of induced fear, defcon *kin 5, because the prats in charge in most Western / 'Civilized' countries bit off a f*ck site more than they ever imagined possible, because we no longer understand Religious Fanaticism.
And Breath! Sorry for yet another Rant!!
Syrian Spokesman on BBC News Now! What an absolute C*NT!! Should be hung, drawn, and Quartered Now! Arrogant, Snide, Lying C*nt!!
Just Saying!!
Dmitry Petrov!! We treat these reports as 'Journalist Misbehaviour'!! What the flying f*ck??? Somebody please shoot him, Friendly fire accepted on this occasion!
Just Saying!!
Dmitry Petrov!! We treat these reports as 'Journalist Misbehaviour'!! What the flying f*ck??? Somebody please shoot him, Friendly fire accepted on this occasion!
Edited by Short Grain on Friday 30th September 00:49
Short Grain said:
The Russians and America with all of their respective (or should that be respectful) minions will continue with the rhetoric / excuses for as long as it takes. And it will take forever!! The west wants / wanted Oil, Middle Eastern Countries have a lot of it, end of!
Unfortunately what they, our great leaders that is, fail to grasp, or pretend to, whilst continuing to preach peace and love,is that these countries need a C*nt in charge!!
It's the same every time. The West invades / interferes to 'Save' the people from oppression, and it goes T*ts Up! Every F*kin Time!! Saddam dead and the faeces hits the fan, Gadhafi and the faeces hits the fan, Assad, On-going! Afghanistan, how many times have they been 'Invaded, and by how many 'Civilized' Countries? How many times have these invasions, peacekeeping forces been successful?
In the meantime, we, the West, or more importantly, the F*kin Idiots in charge at our end of things, claim that we are right and they are wrong! They, Middle East, have a totally different outlook and lifestyle to us but NO, They should have our lifestyle because we are right!!The Idiots in charge play their own game, for their benefit, nobody else's FFS!
Putin will play EVERYONE and Russia will follow him because the people of Russia have No Choice! What are we going to do there? Invade to 'save' the Russian People?? Welcome to Armageddon, the new Biggest Game Show on the F*kin Planet cos Putin will not back down!!
The west have armed both sides forever, the British will continue to arm the Saudis and anybody else who wants, we supplied Saddam, Gadhafi, Afghanistan along with The Good Old U S of A, and plenty of others that we will never know about!
I don't like being kept on a constant state of induced fear, defcon *kin 5, because the prats in charge in most Western / 'Civilized' countries bit off a f*ck site more than they ever imagined possible, because we no longer understand Religious Fanaticism.
And Breath! Sorry for yet another Rant!!
And to top it all, all of the soldiers from the west involved in these conflicts are honoured for "doing there duty and dying/being injured to protect their country".Unfortunately what they, our great leaders that is, fail to grasp, or pretend to, whilst continuing to preach peace and love,is that these countries need a C*nt in charge!!
It's the same every time. The West invades / interferes to 'Save' the people from oppression, and it goes T*ts Up! Every F*kin Time!! Saddam dead and the faeces hits the fan, Gadhafi and the faeces hits the fan, Assad, On-going! Afghanistan, how many times have they been 'Invaded, and by how many 'Civilized' Countries? How many times have these invasions, peacekeeping forces been successful?
In the meantime, we, the West, or more importantly, the F*kin Idiots in charge at our end of things, claim that we are right and they are wrong! They, Middle East, have a totally different outlook and lifestyle to us but NO, They should have our lifestyle because we are right!!The Idiots in charge play their own game, for their benefit, nobody else's FFS!
Putin will play EVERYONE and Russia will follow him because the people of Russia have No Choice! What are we going to do there? Invade to 'save' the Russian People?? Welcome to Armageddon, the new Biggest Game Show on the F*kin Planet cos Putin will not back down!!
The west have armed both sides forever, the British will continue to arm the Saudis and anybody else who wants, we supplied Saddam, Gadhafi, Afghanistan along with The Good Old U S of A, and plenty of others that we will never know about!
I don't like being kept on a constant state of induced fear, defcon *kin 5, because the prats in charge in most Western / 'Civilized' countries bit off a f*ck site more than they ever imagined possible, because we no longer understand Religious Fanaticism.
And Breath! Sorry for yet another Rant!!
Rogue86 said:
Driller said:
And to top it all, all of the soldiers from the west involved in these conflicts are honoured for "doing there duty and dying/being injured to protect their country".
Please, go on. You've sparked my curiosity.The failure of politicians and military brass in Afghanistan and more so, Iraq has lead to this regional mess.
Libya and Syria, falls into the same category although thankfully, it has not resulted in large scale UK military involvement, although not for Cameron, Hague and Co. Lack of trying. It has still resulted in a destroyed country and destabilisation of neighbours.
A project for an American century and defense of the realm documents lay this out, but that is just conspiracy theories.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 30th September 12:11
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Has the sacrifice in Afghanistan and Iraq been worth it?
Ultimately I guess it depends on your definition of "worth it" and from what standpoint you substantiate that opinion with. To many, yes. To many, no.Without getting bogged down in the nitty-gritty of both conflicts, I suppose an opinion of it draws from whether you believe a larger plan is in acton or that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, as well as to what extent you support that idea and the foundations of knowledge or experience you draw those beliefs from. I think what we should all remember is that as passionate as we pretend to be about it online, we're discussing the very harsh reality of the day-to-day existence for lots of people.
Debating this point is not really what has sparked my curiosity, though. I'm old and ugly enough to know that we're not going to settle global politics on a car forum. What I'm more interested in is the post above and the point to which it is leading.
Rogue86 said:
Ultimately I guess it depends on your definition of "worth it" and from what standpoint you substantiate that opinion with. To many, yes. To many, no.
Without getting bogged down in the nitty-gritty of both conflicts, I suppose an opinion of it draws from whether you believe a larger plan is in acton or that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, as well as to what extent you support that idea and the foundations of knowledge or experience you draw those beliefs from. I think what we should all remember is that as passionate as we pretend to be about it online, we're discussing the very harsh reality of the day-to-day existence for lots of people.
Debating this point is not really what has sparked my curiosity, though. I'm old and ugly enough to know that we're not going to settle global politics on a car forum. What I'm more interested in is the post above and the point to which it is leading.
A thoughtful answer, thank you. Without getting bogged down in the nitty-gritty of both conflicts, I suppose an opinion of it draws from whether you believe a larger plan is in acton or that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, as well as to what extent you support that idea and the foundations of knowledge or experience you draw those beliefs from. I think what we should all remember is that as passionate as we pretend to be about it online, we're discussing the very harsh reality of the day-to-day existence for lots of people.
Debating this point is not really what has sparked my curiosity, though. I'm old and ugly enough to know that we're not going to settle global politics on a car forum. What I'm more interested in is the post above and the point to which it is leading.
From the perspective of grieving parents that had children arriving home in a box or missing limbs, volunteer or not, the 500000 + estimated casualties in Iraq and counting, worth it is a tangible question. Irrespective of a philosophical dissection of the question.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 30th September 12:45
Rogue86 said:
Driller said:
What part of what you quoted did you find the most "interesting" then?
Well, elaborate on your point and explain what you mean by it. The implication is there that you disagree with honouring dead/wounded soldiers and I'm interested to hear why.just like witches at black masses.
Evil minds that plot destruction,
sorcerer of death's construction.
In the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning.
Death and hatred to mankind,
poisoning their brainwashed minds...Oh lord yeah!
Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor
Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait `till their judgement day comes, yeah!
Now in darkness, world stops turning,
ashes where the bodies burning.
No more war pigs have the power,
hand of god has struck the hour.
Day of judgement, god is calling,
on their knees the war pigs crawling.
Begging mercy for their sins,
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings...Oh lord, yeah!
QuantumTokoloshi said:
A thoughtful answer, thank you.
From the perspective of grieving parents that had children arriving home in a box or missing limbs, volunteer or not, the 500000 + estimated casualties in Iraq and counting, worth it is a tangible question. Irrespective of a philosophical dissection of the question.
No need for the thanks, though it's appreciated. From the perspective of grieving parents that had children arriving home in a box or missing limbs, volunteer or not, the 500000 + estimated casualties in Iraq and counting, worth it is a tangible question. Irrespective of a philosophical dissection of the question.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 30th September 12:45
I would say from the perspective of anyone involved in any conflict, either directly or indirectly, that it was categorically not worth it. War really is hell.
Driller said:
ETA To give you an example, they invaded Iraq because some people lied about WMDs for their own agenda whatever it was. Innocent men, women and children were killed as a result including our soldiers.
To me this is not honorable, this is tragic and shameful.
Does that help?
So can I assume that your view of soldiers is the same regardless of the conflict or which side they're on? Would you also go as far to say that all soldiers are inherently bad people? Perhaps the way you've worded it inadvertently suggests that those killed/injured almost deserve it.To me this is not honorable, this is tragic and shameful.
Does that help?
I'd also be careful about so forcefully galvanising your opinion, stating it as fact. As someone who has been on both sides of the fence, you're only ever aware of the information you absolutely need to be made aware of.
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