Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Transmitter Man said:
I'm no expert on insurgency, but when you're dropping naval mines on your citizens you're probably losing.
Phil
I don't think anyone is suggesting Assad won't fall. The results however would have much different if we didn't arm Al Qaeda to the teeth and airlift 1000's of them from Libya to lead the war with suicide bombings and car bombs in city centres.Phil
I'd be interested to hear what you think will happen in Syria when he is toppled. Democracy? Peace? Protection of all religious sects including the Alawites, Christians and Jews living there?
Or genocide, a Sharia state and an army of fundamentalist nutjobs given a decent foothold to further their Jihad on the West?
Art0ir said:
I don't think anyone is suggesting Assad won't fall. The results however would have much different if we didn't arm Al Qaeda to the teeth and airlift 1000's of them from Libya to lead the war with suicide bombings and car bombs in city centres.
I'd be interested to hear what you think will happen in Syria when he is toppled. Democracy? Peace? Protection of all religious sects including the Alawites, Christians and Jews living there?
Or genocide, a Sharia state and an army of fundamentalist nutjobs given a decent foothold to further their Jihad on the West?
Someone somewhere must think this is a price worth paying to remove an ally of Iran..........I'd be interested to hear what you think will happen in Syria when he is toppled. Democracy? Peace? Protection of all religious sects including the Alawites, Christians and Jews living there?
Or genocide, a Sharia state and an army of fundamentalist nutjobs given a decent foothold to further their Jihad on the West?
There are very few Syrian Jews left,, measured in tens rather than hundreds and living in Aleppo. I don't think there's any left in Damascus although I could be wrong. Where have they all gone I hear you ask, emigrated abroad, mostly to Israel.
I disagree that that Libyan fighters are leading this civil war although there's no doubt they are there in some numbers - and they're not too clever when it comes to using You Tube:-)
I think that one cannot compare any of the other regimes that have fallen in recently, Tunisia, Libya or Egypt with that of Syria due mainly to the demographic make-up and the strategic location of the country.
It has been said that neighbouring countries are using Syria as a kind of proxy war with Iran & Hezbollah from Lebanon in one camp and with Russia exercising their weapons testing programme on one side and Lebanese Sunni and several countries from the Gulf region together with various others also in the mix, Birmingham, Libya, Egyptian and radical Islamists with their own agenda on the opposing side.
It's now a mess.
I think as and when Assad falls the Syrians in the main while want a secular state, albeit an Arab speaking one and that I cannot see the Muslim Brotherhood making much headway there unlike in Egypt. Even though they are now a minority the Christians and Christianity started in Damascus - it goes back a long way.
A big problem will be reigning in the radical Islamists IMO.
Just my 2p, your mileage may vary.
Had a good crowd around the local coffee shop table earlier this evening: http://www.pret.com/find_a_pret/shops/UK0137.shtm
Lebanese Maronite (Christian), Egyptian, Palestinian that was schooled at an orthodox Jewish school, a Saudi law student from Riyadh, an Israeli girl here from Ashkelon (5km from the Gaza Strip) and myself who's proudly a Heinz 57.
Syria is an interesting topic of conversation most every evening.
Phil
I disagree that that Libyan fighters are leading this civil war although there's no doubt they are there in some numbers - and they're not too clever when it comes to using You Tube:-)
I think that one cannot compare any of the other regimes that have fallen in recently, Tunisia, Libya or Egypt with that of Syria due mainly to the demographic make-up and the strategic location of the country.
It has been said that neighbouring countries are using Syria as a kind of proxy war with Iran & Hezbollah from Lebanon in one camp and with Russia exercising their weapons testing programme on one side and Lebanese Sunni and several countries from the Gulf region together with various others also in the mix, Birmingham, Libya, Egyptian and radical Islamists with their own agenda on the opposing side.
It's now a mess.
I think as and when Assad falls the Syrians in the main while want a secular state, albeit an Arab speaking one and that I cannot see the Muslim Brotherhood making much headway there unlike in Egypt. Even though they are now a minority the Christians and Christianity started in Damascus - it goes back a long way.
A big problem will be reigning in the radical Islamists IMO.
Just my 2p, your mileage may vary.
Had a good crowd around the local coffee shop table earlier this evening: http://www.pret.com/find_a_pret/shops/UK0137.shtm
Lebanese Maronite (Christian), Egyptian, Palestinian that was schooled at an orthodox Jewish school, a Saudi law student from Riyadh, an Israeli girl here from Ashkelon (5km from the Gaza Strip) and myself who's proudly a Heinz 57.
Syria is an interesting topic of conversation most every evening.
Phil
SmoothCriminal said:
Everyone paints the FSA as some rosey freedom fighters but watching some videos out of Syria theyre not and i bet the majority of them are jihadists from different countries.
Very reminiscent of actions elsewhere that we would be 'against'. We need to be very careful who we support, and put into power in these countries. Transmitter Man said:
There are very few Syrian Jews left,, measured in tens rather than hundreds and living in Aleppo. I don't think there's any left in Damascus although I could be wrong. Where have they all gone I hear you ask, emigrated abroad, mostly to Israel.
I disagree that that Libyan fighters are leading this civil war although there's no doubt they are there in some numbers - and they're not too clever when it comes to using You Tube:-)
I think that one cannot compare any of the other regimes that have fallen in recently, Tunisia, Libya or Egypt with that of Syria due mainly to the demographic make-up and the strategic location of the country.
It has been said that neighbouring countries are using Syria as a kind of proxy war with Iran & Hezbollah from Lebanon in one camp and with Russia exercising their weapons testing programme on one side and Lebanese Sunni and several countries from the Gulf region together with various others also in the mix, Birmingham, Libya, Egyptian and radical Islamists with their own agenda on the opposing side.
It's now a mess.
I think as and when Assad falls the Syrians in the main while want a secular state, albeit an Arab speaking one and that I cannot see the Muslim Brotherhood making much headway there unlike in Egypt. Even though they are now a minority the Christians and Christianity started in Damascus - it goes back a long way.
A big problem will be reigning in the radical Islamists IMO.
Just my 2p, your mileage may vary.
Had a good crowd around the local coffee shop table earlier this evening: http://www.pret.com/find_a_pret/shops/UK0137.shtm
Lebanese Maronite (Christian), Egyptian, Palestinian that was schooled at an orthodox Jewish school, a Saudi law student from Riyadh, an Israeli girl here from Ashkelon (5km from the Gaza Strip) and myself who's proudly a Heinz 57.
Syria is an interesting topic of conversation most every evening.
Phil
Libya is still a mess and is rife with sectarianism. How the sub-Saharan migrant workers were slaughtered is just one example of what is to come in my opinion.I disagree that that Libyan fighters are leading this civil war although there's no doubt they are there in some numbers - and they're not too clever when it comes to using You Tube:-)
I think that one cannot compare any of the other regimes that have fallen in recently, Tunisia, Libya or Egypt with that of Syria due mainly to the demographic make-up and the strategic location of the country.
It has been said that neighbouring countries are using Syria as a kind of proxy war with Iran & Hezbollah from Lebanon in one camp and with Russia exercising their weapons testing programme on one side and Lebanese Sunni and several countries from the Gulf region together with various others also in the mix, Birmingham, Libya, Egyptian and radical Islamists with their own agenda on the opposing side.
It's now a mess.
I think as and when Assad falls the Syrians in the main while want a secular state, albeit an Arab speaking one and that I cannot see the Muslim Brotherhood making much headway there unlike in Egypt. Even though they are now a minority the Christians and Christianity started in Damascus - it goes back a long way.
A big problem will be reigning in the radical Islamists IMO.
Just my 2p, your mileage may vary.
Had a good crowd around the local coffee shop table earlier this evening: http://www.pret.com/find_a_pret/shops/UK0137.shtm
Lebanese Maronite (Christian), Egyptian, Palestinian that was schooled at an orthodox Jewish school, a Saudi law student from Riyadh, an Israeli girl here from Ashkelon (5km from the Gaza Strip) and myself who's proudly a Heinz 57.
Syria is an interesting topic of conversation most every evening.
Phil
I'm sure there are some secularists fighting on the rebel side, but they are vastly outgunned by the extremists and I dare say it will be those that conquer Damascus and try to take power.
SmoothCriminal said:
There's a video doing the rounds of the FSA letting a child behead an unarmed prisoner.
So nice and cuddly the FSA are hey........
Lots of video of unarmed executions, and brutality. Both will be regimes we will not appreciate no matter the outcome. It is a case, methinks, of being careful what you wish for. So nice and cuddly the FSA are hey........
Scud missiles fired by Syrian army on rebels. I suppose no other army has used weapons at their disposal against their enemies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
Mermaid said:
Scud missiles fired by Syrian army on rebels. I suppose no other army has used weapons at their disposal against their enemies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
The propaganda, is strong with this one.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
Art0ir said:
Mermaid said:
Scud missiles fired by Syrian army on rebels. I suppose no other army has used weapons at their disposal against their enemies.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
The propaganda, is strong with this one.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
I'd say intervention must now be just around the corner.
Balls-up number ....
Happy Xmas and New Year.
Mermaid said:
dandarez said:
...I'd say intervention must now be just around the corner.
I suspect you are right, especially because the West/Saudis are getting frustrated by the support that has allowed Assad to stay in power.People are dying and the world is doing nothing.
Oakey said:
simoid said:
Still just around the corner...
People are dying and the world is doing nothing.
And? We can't intervene in every country around the world, can we? People are dying in North Korea but nobody is suggesting we invade them.People are dying and the world is doing nothing.
/predictable.
Anyone thinking the west was going to intervene in a country where Russian troops were stationed is living on another planet. The potential fallout from having the cold war superpowers facing each other on the battlefield doesn't bear thinking about.
Whether that still holds true now the Russians appear to be leaving I don't know. On the face of it the Kremlin is hanging Assad out to dry, however us plebs can only guess at what G8 leaders discuss behind closed doors.
Changing the topic slightly, it appears the jihadi's aren't making many friends among the locals:
al-Qaida fighters revealing their true colours, rebels say
Whether that still holds true now the Russians appear to be leaving I don't know. On the face of it the Kremlin is hanging Assad out to dry, however us plebs can only guess at what G8 leaders discuss behind closed doors.
Changing the topic slightly, it appears the jihadi's aren't making many friends among the locals:
al-Qaida fighters revealing their true colours, rebels say
article said:
Some already talk of an Iraq-style "awakening" – a time in late-2006 as when communities in the Sunni heartland cities of Fallujah and Ramadi turned on al-Qaida groups in their midst that had tried to impose sharia law and enforce their will through the gun barrel.
"We'll fight them on day two after Assad falls," a commander said. "Until then we will no longer work with them."
Looks like the locals have had a taste of sharia and don't like it very much."We'll fight them on day two after Assad falls," a commander said. "Until then we will no longer work with them."
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