Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Transmitter Man said:
Hero IMO. Sad to see some of the reactions from both her kin and those she's helping, but inevitable I guess.Transmitter Man said:
A remarkable woman, crazy or brave, it is often the same thing.Guam said:
Err ~~I think so do you, the taliban came about as a result of the mujahadeen, (of whom Bin laden was a part) the funding and supply from the CIA lead inexorably to the Taliban (power vacuum in afghanistan following the russian exit) clearly with Pakistani help) that being said to all but the most myopic, the chain from Cia involvement through to the current circumstances is well documented and acknowledged, unless you choose to selectively ignore parts of the evolution.
Supporting the inheritors of Bin Ladens philosophy in Syria would unquestionably have the same unforeseen results imho.
Next up Mr "big boy"?
PS it was a throwaway one liner incidentally so abbreviation of the circumstances is usually accepted in such discourse.
PPS as others have said, the war is thataway, feel free to head out and do YOUR bit!
That's a straw-man, I can then blame rise of Hitler on Britain helping France in WW1. The Taliban fought the Mujaheddin. In fact Soviet's worst nightmare - Massoud was killed by suicide bomber 1 day before 9/11. The Taliban was a movement partly funded and directed by the ISI and that filled a power vacuum.Supporting the inheritors of Bin Ladens philosophy in Syria would unquestionably have the same unforeseen results imho.
Next up Mr "big boy"?
PS it was a throwaway one liner incidentally so abbreviation of the circumstances is usually accepted in such discourse.
PPS as others have said, the war is thataway, feel free to head out and do YOUR bit!
Bin Laden had nothing to do with the CIA operation to supply the Muj. It's like Spanish Civil War where both the USSR and the West were helping the Republicans independent of each other.
Also, Al Qaeda moved in to Syria precisely because we did nothing and the longer we do nothing, the worse the problem will become.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Like the "mission accomplished" invasion of Iraq ? Or perhaps the "mission accomplished" occupation of Afghanistan ? Those were quick interventions, quick bombing campaign, a little land invasion and everyone home for tea.
The war was won we were told. Someone forgot to tell the 500 000 dead.
you want to intervene, be the person who crosses the border first, it is easy to send other to do the fighting for you, another proposition to be the one being shot at.
You want to support the ideals of freedom and democracy, how about the UK and the USA start arming the Saudi or Bahraini democracy protesters, those are repressive regimes, violently oppressing pro democracy opponents, Saudi being the birthplace of Al Qaeda after all. Let's spread that democracy around.
The war has already begun in Syria. The equivalent would have been to go into Iraq once Saddam had died of natural causes and the country split between warring Baath Party factions.The war was won we were told. Someone forgot to tell the 500 000 dead.
you want to intervene, be the person who crosses the border first, it is easy to send other to do the fighting for you, another proposition to be the one being shot at.
You want to support the ideals of freedom and democracy, how about the UK and the USA start arming the Saudi or Bahraini democracy protesters, those are repressive regimes, violently oppressing pro democracy opponents, Saudi being the birthplace of Al Qaeda after all. Let's spread that democracy around.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 28th January 07:57
Pesty said:
Not wrong at all they dropped bombs in Syria. A sovereign state. People were killed. Whatever the targets were they dropped bombs on Syrian soil. Wherever the missiles where going if you believe the Israelites or not that is not neutral.
If said missiles are going to Hezbollah to be fired on Israeli soil, that is not so neutral of the Syrians IMO.Jimbeaux said:
Pesty said:
Not wrong at all they dropped bombs in Syria. A sovereign state. People were killed. Whatever the targets were they dropped bombs on Syrian soil. Wherever the missiles where going if you believe the Israelites or not that is not neutral.
If said missiles are going to Hezbollah to be fired on Israeli soil, that is not so neutral of the Syrians IMO.DEBKA reported during the week that Israel, Jordan and the US are preparing to create buffer zones along the Israeli and Jordanian borders that will be manned by American and Israeli trained and armed Syrian militias - not to engage with Syrian forces, but to hold back Jabhat Al-Nusra and the ISIS for Christ's sake!
So as for Assad - my enemy's enemy and all that... right?
Well, er... Erdogan was in Iran during the week for talks?! The same Erdogan who has 3 large Al Qaeda training facilities within his borders, pumping nutters into the Syrian conflict and beyond to Iraq.
The mind boggles, I imagine (hope) that those whose job it is to make sense of it all can do so.
Nikolai Petroff said:
The war has already begun in Syria. The equivalent would have been to go into Iraq once Saddam had died of natural causes and the country split between warring Baath Party factions.
So let's start with Saudi then, it will help bring the Syrian war to a close, by cutting off the arms supply and create a whole new democratic country in the Middle East. Let us go to the source of the instability.QuantumTokoloshi said:
So let's start with Saudi then, it will help bring the Syrian war to a close, by cutting off the arms supply and create a whole new democratic country in the Middle East. Let us go to the source of the instability.
A no go area - currently sponsored by the USA. But things change.Guam said:
And these are the guys some folk wanted us to help, its beginning to appear to me that the the only person we should help is Assad (if we had to help anyone).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552626/Fa...
[sarcasm] Noooooo, They are highly motivated freedom fighters assisting in overthrowing an evil dictator. We or our allies, may have even given them some training to help ! Just look how successful the Libyan experience was, a textbook example of "success".http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552626/Fa...
The destabilising terrorist democratic rabble in Saudi and Bahrain however deserve to be beaten, tried for treason and imprisoned or just simply shot, even the medical workers who helped them should be charged and imprisoned.
We cannot have those shinning lights of freedom, liberty, justice and oilocracy threatened by evil terrorist demonstrators, especially when they are sponsoring the work of dedicated, truly committed islamic fighters in Syria. [Sarcasm/]
I do find it odd that the UK politicians (ConLib) were happy to train and assist this bunch of crazies in Syria, but do not like it when they bring their particular brand of freedom discussion back home.
I guess it is okay, as long as they are killing in someone else's country.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 6th February 11:34
Guam said:
And these are the guys some folk wanted us to help, its beginning to appear to me that the the only person we should help is Assad (if we had to help anyone).
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552626/Fa...
Which would probably be more something to worry about if it was not from the DM!http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2552626/Fa...
Assad is probably the least rubbish option if only because he is a known quantity from the Wests perspective but the fact is that the hostory of oputside powers imposing or proping up a regeime in that area is not exactly great. To contain a situation is fine IMHO but to actively interfere make little sense. History tells us that. For the West to get too closely involved says to the local population that the West gets to decide whats best for them, regardless of their own views, situation, politics and internal dynamic. In fact, I am struggling to think of a successful intervention of this type. My own view is the Wests only goal on this should be to minimise the Hezbollah impact in the area, provide medical aid etc as needed and as possible and stay well clear of the rest not because I think it will have a good outcome but becuase I think it will lead to the same outcome faster and with less cost to economies, militaries and in terms of lives.
Guam...
Sort of agree! Not sure about the prosecution thing as a rule though. A good mate of mine is out there right now I think, mainly as he is Syrian, his mum passed last year and he has family stuff to deal with. The fact he is in his late 60's makes it a little unlikely he is there chucking bombs about - but if there is very strong ebidence someone has gone there only to fight, and I have no idea what the law says on this, then that should be looked at I think.
US self interest is in my view, the issue! Problem is, it was in the US interest to back the Afghans against USSR. At the time, it was a perfectly reasonable option considering cold war politics etc. Didn't go terribly well clearly but who knows what would have happened if not.
Hands off won't give any more certain an outcome but it is the only way I can see of preventing more dislike of the West.
Or, and I may have just solved world conflict here. We give everyone access to an X-box or PS4 or whatevr games thingy is cool right now, programme a game where they all get to endlessly shoot people based on say, Jar Jar Binks, Justin Beib, anyone who went into any reality Tv thing for the "experiance" etc. They will simply spend their whole time on the game thus being too busy to go into the real world - anyone wanting to invest in this brilliant idea, feel free to send cheques, gold, or most things by Aston or Lambo :-P
Sort of agree! Not sure about the prosecution thing as a rule though. A good mate of mine is out there right now I think, mainly as he is Syrian, his mum passed last year and he has family stuff to deal with. The fact he is in his late 60's makes it a little unlikely he is there chucking bombs about - but if there is very strong ebidence someone has gone there only to fight, and I have no idea what the law says on this, then that should be looked at I think.
US self interest is in my view, the issue! Problem is, it was in the US interest to back the Afghans against USSR. At the time, it was a perfectly reasonable option considering cold war politics etc. Didn't go terribly well clearly but who knows what would have happened if not.
Hands off won't give any more certain an outcome but it is the only way I can see of preventing more dislike of the West.
Or, and I may have just solved world conflict here. We give everyone access to an X-box or PS4 or whatevr games thingy is cool right now, programme a game where they all get to endlessly shoot people based on say, Jar Jar Binks, Justin Beib, anyone who went into any reality Tv thing for the "experiance" etc. They will simply spend their whole time on the game thus being too busy to go into the real world - anyone wanting to invest in this brilliant idea, feel free to send cheques, gold, or most things by Aston or Lambo :-P
After what happened in Libya (countless UK citizens getting involved in their civil war) it's no wonder that now we're seeing it happen all over again in Syria. It's quite worrying really that people are willing to drop everything, leave their families and go and fight in a foreign war thousands of miles away.
A British man thought to have carried out a suicide bombing in Syria last week was Abdul Waheed Majid, the BBC has learned.
Former Guantanamo Bay detainee Moazzam Begg is among four people who have been arrested on suspicion of Syria-related terrorism offences, police have said.
BlackLabel said:
After what happened in Libya (countless UK citizens getting involved in their civil war) it's no wonder that now we're seeing it happen all over again in Syria. It's quite worrying really that people are willing to drop everything, leave their families and go and fight in a foreign war thousands of miles away.
A British man thought to have carried out a suicide bombing in Syria last week was Abdul Waheed Majid, the BBC has learned.
Former Guantanamo Bay detainee Moazzam Begg is among four people who have been arrested on suspicion of Syria-related terrorism offences, police have said.
The Mozzam Begg story I personally think is all smoke. Be interesting to see how this plays out.A British man thought to have carried out a suicide bombing in Syria last week was Abdul Waheed Majid, the BBC has learned.
Former Guantanamo Bay detainee Moazzam Begg is among four people who have been arrested on suspicion of Syria-related terrorism offences, police have said.
There is no doubt that UK nationals are going off to Syria to fight, but then I remember the same being true of UK nationals off to fight in Libya. Don't remember this sort of attention when that happened.
The Syria calling is interesting, there is a Muslim belief about the second coming of Jesus and the end of days. Not been talked about a lot but this is more than Jihad.
RedTrident said:
The Mozzam Begg story I personally think is all smoke. Be interesting to see how this plays out.
There is no doubt that UK nationals are going off to Syria to fight, but then I remember the same being true of UK nationals off to fight in Libya. Don't remember this sort of attention when that happened.
The Syria calling is interesting, there is a Muslim belief about the second coming of Jesus and the end of days. Not been talked about a lot but this is more than Jihad.
Ironically it wasn't so long ago that Obama and Dave were pushing for Western support to these very same groups that someone like Begg has probably been supporting.There is no doubt that UK nationals are going off to Syria to fight, but then I remember the same being true of UK nationals off to fight in Libya. Don't remember this sort of attention when that happened.
The Syria calling is interesting, there is a Muslim belief about the second coming of Jesus and the end of days. Not been talked about a lot but this is more than Jihad.
DWS said:
So, apart from the happenings in the Crimea, Oscar Pistorius trial, max clifford trial, undercover policemen, Paralympics ........ Has anything happened in Syria? By the lack of news they must be all getting along swimingly......
Things getting progressively worse. Much like what happened when we funded "rebels" in Libya. Remember that?Me neither.
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