Meanwhile, In Syria

[Art0ir]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The USA is training rebels/terrorists to fight in Syria. The logical way to promote peace and democracy in the world. To train and arm Militia groups with ties to Islamist groups, what could possibly go wrong ?

11/9/2001 seems to spring to mind.

Syrian Rebels Describe U.S.-Backed Training in Qatar

That's not news sadly; some of us pointed that out when this thread started but were ignored.

[Mermaid]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The USA is training rebels/terrorists to fight in Syria. The logical way to promote peace and democracy in the world. To train and arm Militia groups with ties to Islamist groups, what could possibly go wrong ?

11/9/2001 seems to spring to mind.

Syrian Rebels Describe U.S.-Backed Training in Qatar

Do hope it bites the Yankee arse.

[deltaevo16]

God forbid they get any anti anti-aircraft missiles, then we can watch in disbelief as a commercial airliner is shot down.
Have the U.S not learned anything, over the last few years. Keep the f=ck out of it.

Let Assad sort out his own mess, at least it will keep a lid on it. I hate to think what the country will turn into if the opposition wins.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

deltaevo16 said:

God forbid they get any anti anti-aircraft missiles, then we can watch in disbelief as a commercial airliner is shot down.
Have the U.S not learned anything, over the last few years. Keep the f=ck out of it.

Let Assad sort out his own mess, at least it will keep a lid on it. I hate to think what the country will turn into if the opposition wins.

The crazies have come mighty close already, using outdated Russian SAM 7 MANPADs on commercial air traffic, Iraq and Kenya being examples of that.

I shudder to think what the loonies would do with a stock of new generation MANPAD missiles.

There is the plundered Libyan MANPAD missiles during the UK, French and USA "bombing Libya for Democracy and Peace" campaign, of which a good percentage have never been recovered.

[2013BRM]

Art0ir said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The USA is training rebels/terrorists to fight in Syria. The logical way to promote peace and democracy in the world. To train and arm Militia groups with ties to Islamist groups, what could possibly go wrong ?

11/9/2001 seems to spring to mind.

Syrian Rebels Describe U.S.-Backed Training in Qatar

That's not news sadly; some of us pointed that out when this thread started but were ignored.

yup, but back then David Cameron was onboard, until a nation combining to tell him he was a fking retard and don't even think about changed his mind

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Here are the "freedom fighters", that are being armed, with TOW missiles and who knows what else,in Syria. They are stepping up the campaign across the border in Iraq. It seems the USA nor the UK governments get the law of unintended consequences yet.

Iraq militants control second city of Mosul

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 10th June 15:49

[AreOut]

here are fighters for democracy, preparing for world cup (warning, very intensive graphic)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=6683631132348...

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Here are the "freedom fighters", that are being armed, with TOW missiles and who knows what else,in Syria. They are stepping up the campaign across the border in Iraq. It seems the USA nor the UK governments get the law of unintended consequences yet.

Iraq militants control second city of Mosul

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 10th June 15:49

Quantum,

Please do your homework before you post such rubbish.

Men with TOW's are on opposite side of conflict to those creating havoc in Iraq against Malaki's government troops.

Yes, both parties are mainly Sunni Arabs, but that's as far as it goes.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Wednesday 11th June 06:47

[Transmitter Man]

Transmitter Man said:

Quantum,

Please do your homework before you post such rubbish.

Men with TOW's are on opposite side of conflict to those creating havoc in Iraq against Malaki's government troops.

Yes, both parties are mainly Sunni Arabs, but that's as far as it goes.

Different agenda's!

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Wednesday 11th June 06:47

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

Quantum,

Please do your homework before you post such rubbish.

Men with TOW's are on opposite side of conflict to those creating havoc in Iraq against Malaki's government troops.

Yes, both parties are mainly Sunni Arabs, but that's as far as it goes.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Wednesday 11th June 06:47

Opposite side? So there is no possibility in a chaotic civil war, in now both Iraq and Syria, of those exact weapons falling into the hands of the ISIS, or members of ISIS to undertake the guerilla training on offer from the USA in Qatar.

The modern weapons supplied to the Iraqi army by the USA/UK, that were in Mosul, are now in the hands of ISIS, and Iraq was supposedly mission accomplished.

ISIS just got themselves an air force, thoughtfully supplied by the USA via the Iraqi air force.

ISIS capture Blackhawk helicopters in Mosul

Did you read the article about the disillusioned "good guy" freedom fighter? Clearly not.

Your naivety seems to match the US and UK foreign policy, with this binary "good guy", "bad guy" view. The mess created in Iraq and now in Syria, has created a dangerous opponent, which Cameron (Blair-lite) was looking to not only support and fund, but provide RAF air support for. ISIS is already well funded, supplied and led, with a fairly secure base from which to operate. Does that remind you of another organisation, pre 11th September 2001 ?

The Syrian situation under Assad (who was better disposed to the West, than most of the Syrian combatants) may not have been ideal, but it is certainly better than the Syrians find themselves with now, and for that matter, Fallujah and Mosul in Iraq.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 11th June 11:47

[Transmitter Man]

ISIS and the FSA/IF are not only on opposite sides but have different agendas.

Both have versions of TOW's/ATGM's.

One side stole them (or maybe they were left out for them to collect)

The other side were authorised them.

Some are Russian made while other more modern units are US made, the latter having the benefit of laser and or heat-seeking capabilities.

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

ISIS and the FSA/IF are not only on opposite sides but have different agendas.

Both have versions of TOW's/ATGM's.

One side stole them (or maybe they were left out for them to collect)

The other side were authorised them.

Authorised , I am sure they check the signature on the official freedom fighter authorisation form before using them.

Who authorised them exactly ? I am guessing considering your binary view, the "good guys" were authorised, but the bad guys stole them, right ?

Transmitter Man said:

Some are Russian made while other more modern units are US made, the latter having the benefit of laser and or heat-seeking capabilities.

Phil

Okay, irrelevant.

Pandora is well and truly out of the box.

[Mermaid]

Wasn't Assad complaining about these terrorists right at the outset?

The West should have "worked" him to keep the peace, and not encourage the Sunni Saudi mob.

[Art0ir]

Mermaid said:

Wasn't Assad complaining about these terrorists right at the outset?

The West should have "worked" him to keep the peace, and not encourage the Sunni Saudi mob.

So did Gadaffi.

[Campo]

Guam said:

I am unsure what the US "progressive" agenda in the Middle east was meant to achieve?

Even in these not so hallowed halls many were predicting exactly the outcomes we now see.

How is it that the so called "great and the good" failed to realise this was the most probable outcome of their endeavours.

Did they actually believe their pontifications over the years, or are they just utterly fking clueless?

I think it was meant to achieve instability for whatever reason. Seems to have done quite well I feel.

While the Arabs are busy fighting each other, they're not capable of attacking Israel or the US.

Sadly I think its only a matter of time before one of the really insane factions gets their hands on something Nuclear and uses it in a fashion to make Sept 11 look like a damp squib.

[chris watton]

Campo said:

Guam said:

I am unsure what the US "progressive" agenda in the Middle east was meant to achieve?

Even in these not so hallowed halls many were predicting exactly the outcomes we now see.

How is it that the so called "great and the good" failed to realise this was the most probable outcome of their endeavours.

Did they actually believe their pontifications over the years, or are they just utterly fking clueless?

I think it was meant to achieve instability for whatever reason. Seems to have done quite well I feel.

While the Arabs are busy fighting each other, they're not capable of attacking Israel or the US.

Sadly I think its only a matter of time before one of the really insane factions gets their hands on something Nuclear and uses it in a fashion to make Sept 11 look like a damp squib.

I have to agree - I think it's inevitable that a terrorist nuclear attack will take place during my lifetime. Scary times.

[Mermaid]

chris watton said:

I have to agree - I think it's inevitable that a terrorist nuclear attack will take place during my lifetime. Scary times.

Even Osama only had access to conventional stuff, the new lot that was created since 2001 (didn't Saddam warn about them?) are loose cannons with far better access. Worrying times.

[Mermaid]

Guam said:

Campo said:

I think it was meant to achieve instability for whatever reason. Seems to have done quite well I feel.

While the Arabs are busy fighting each other, they're not capable of attacking Israel or the US.

Sadly I think its only a matter of time before one of the really insane factions gets their hands on something Nuclear and uses it in a fashion to make Sept 11 look like a damp squib.

Its difficult to avoid that conclusion in fairness.

I am not convinced it precludes an attack on western targets, they are certainly more experienced and better equipped now. And emboldened.

[Transmitter Man]

chris watton said:

I have to agree - I think it's inevitable that a terrorist nuclear attack will take place during my lifetime. Scary times.

If you consider Iran a terrorist regime then you're possibly right.

That is unless Israel bombs them first.

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

chris watton said:

I have to agree - I think it's inevitable that a terrorist nuclear attack will take place during my lifetime. Scary times.

If you consider Iran a terrorist regime then you're possibly right.

That is unless Israel bombs them first.

Phil

It is quite ironic that Iran has become a stabilising force in the Middle East. If you consider they have been invaded with support from the West (1+ million dead), had an airliner shot down by the USA, had their neighbour invaded and thrown into anarchy and civil war, resulting in this Iraq mess we now find, US military surveillance drone overflying their airspace, an ongoing campaign of scientist assassinations in Iran, UK and US special forces operating and being captured within their country and finally, Iran was a major player in supporting the Western alliance and the USA in stabilising Northern Afghanistan (The bit without an ongoing war), something often conveniently forgot by the "Iran is the big evil" media.

I enjoyed our foreign secretary's, Mr Hague, concern this morning on the radio, about Iraq request for help from the USA. How it was wrong for America to be bombing "Arab wedding parties". The unrequited temerity was remarkable.

A man that spent days, frothing and fulminating, in an attempt to convince the Uk to bomb Syria and provide military support for the very same bunch now in Iraq. That is besides the fact that the UK, along with the USA, have had a decade long campaign of drone attacks and bombing in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Libya and Yemen.

The duplicitous and deceitful nature of the man, was retch inducing, A graduate of the Blair school of communication and media.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 13th June 09:51