Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
So even three years ago, the US was entirely aware they were supporting Islamic extremists and not moderate, liberal rebels shown on the evening news.
The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
Art0ir said:
So even three years ago, the US was entirely aware they were supporting Islamic extremists and not moderate, liberal rebels shown on the evening news.
The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
They were only training and supplying moderately Islamic fundamentalists terrorist groups, none of the high tech anti tank weapons could have possibly fallen into the hands of ISIS.No chance at all.The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
ISIS seems a remarkably effective military organisation, I wonder how much is ex-Iraqi military and how much is graduates of the Middle East version of the infamous" the school of the Americas?"
Assad is not looking so bad now.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 25th May 17:09
s.Art0ir said:
So even three years ago, the US was entirely aware they were supporting Islamic extremists and not moderate, liberal rebels shown on the evening news.
The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
And yet they've actually increased Shiite influence in the region as the Iraqis have basically subcontracted the job of defeating ISIS to Iran.The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
I still think that we've been backing the wrong horse all along in the Middle East - the Iranians are no angels (they fund Hezbollah, and Hamas amongst others) but their tentacles do not extend further than the Middle East unlike the Saudis and the Qataris who help fund terror all around the world. Yet we are friends with the latter and enemies of the former.
BlackLabel said:
Art0ir said:
So even three years ago, the US was entirely aware they were supporting Islamic extremists and not moderate, liberal rebels shown on the evening news.
The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
And yet they've actually increased Shiite influence in the region as the Iraqis have basically subcontracted the job of defeating ISIS to Iran.The rise of ISIS was highly likely but seen as necessary to take down Assad and damage Shia influence in the region. Obviously lots of redactions but worth reading the report.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pen...
I still think that we've been backing the wrong horse all along in the Middle East - the Iranians are no angels (they fund Hezbollah, and Hamas amongst others) but their tentacles do not extend further than the Middle East unlike the Saudis and the Qataris who help fund terror all around the world. Yet we are friends with the latter and enemies of the former.
The truth is though we have no idea where they're going. That report shows that they're generally a year or two ahead of the curve anyway.
American complicity in creating ISIS, I am John's complete lack of surprise.
Ex-US Intelligence Officials Confirm: Secret Pentagon Report Proves US Complicity In Creation Of ISIS
This, if true, makes a lot of sense, particularly the part below. I would not be surprised to find the "moderate Islamist Fundamentalists" being supported with weapons and training, have a much broader definition than would be assumed or admitted to.
“The idea of breaking up the large Arab states into ethnic or sectarian enclaves is an old Ben Gurion ‘canard,’ and splitting Iraq along sectarian lines has been Vice President Biden’s recipe since the Iraq war,” wrote Crooke, who had coordinated British assistance to the Afghan mujahideen in the 1980s. After his long MI6 stint, he became Middle East advisor to the European Union’s foreign policy chief (1997–2003).
“But the idea of driving a Sunni ‘wedge’ into the landline linking Iran to Syria and to Hezbollah in Lebanon became established Western group think in the wake of the 2006 war, in which Israel failed to de-fang Hezbollah,” continued Crooke. “The response to 2006, it seemed to Western powers, was to cut off Hezbollah from its sources of weapons supply from Iran…
“… In short, the DIA assessment indicates that the ‘wedge’ concept was being given new life by the desire to pressure Assad in the wake of the 2011 insurgency launched against the Syrian state. ‘Supporting powers’ effectively wanted to inject hydraulic fracturing fluid into eastern Syria (radical Salafists) in order to fracture the bridge between Iran and its Arab allies, even at the cost of this ‘fracking’ opening fissures right down inside Iraq to Ramadi. (Intelligence assessments purpose is to provide ‘a view’?—?not to describe or prescribe policy. But it is clear that the DIA reports’ ‘warnings’ were widely circulated and would have been meshed into the policy consideration.)
“But this ‘view’ has exactly come about. It is fact. One might conclude then that in the policy debate, the notion of isolating Hezbollah from Iran, and of weakening and pressurizing President Assad, simply trumped the common sense judgment that when you pump highly toxic and dangerous fracturing substances into geological formations, you can never entirely know or control the consequences… So, when the GCC demanded a ‘price’ for any Iran deal (i.e. massing ‘fracking’ forces close to Aleppo), the pass had been already partially been sold by the US by 2012, when it did not object to what the ‘supporting powers’ wanted.”
Ex-US Intelligence Officials Confirm: Secret Pentagon Report Proves US Complicity In Creation Of ISIS
This, if true, makes a lot of sense, particularly the part below. I would not be surprised to find the "moderate Islamist Fundamentalists" being supported with weapons and training, have a much broader definition than would be assumed or admitted to.
“The idea of breaking up the large Arab states into ethnic or sectarian enclaves is an old Ben Gurion ‘canard,’ and splitting Iraq along sectarian lines has been Vice President Biden’s recipe since the Iraq war,” wrote Crooke, who had coordinated British assistance to the Afghan mujahideen in the 1980s. After his long MI6 stint, he became Middle East advisor to the European Union’s foreign policy chief (1997–2003).
“But the idea of driving a Sunni ‘wedge’ into the landline linking Iran to Syria and to Hezbollah in Lebanon became established Western group think in the wake of the 2006 war, in which Israel failed to de-fang Hezbollah,” continued Crooke. “The response to 2006, it seemed to Western powers, was to cut off Hezbollah from its sources of weapons supply from Iran…
“… In short, the DIA assessment indicates that the ‘wedge’ concept was being given new life by the desire to pressure Assad in the wake of the 2011 insurgency launched against the Syrian state. ‘Supporting powers’ effectively wanted to inject hydraulic fracturing fluid into eastern Syria (radical Salafists) in order to fracture the bridge between Iran and its Arab allies, even at the cost of this ‘fracking’ opening fissures right down inside Iraq to Ramadi. (Intelligence assessments purpose is to provide ‘a view’?—?not to describe or prescribe policy. But it is clear that the DIA reports’ ‘warnings’ were widely circulated and would have been meshed into the policy consideration.)
“But this ‘view’ has exactly come about. It is fact. One might conclude then that in the policy debate, the notion of isolating Hezbollah from Iran, and of weakening and pressurizing President Assad, simply trumped the common sense judgment that when you pump highly toxic and dangerous fracturing substances into geological formations, you can never entirely know or control the consequences… So, when the GCC demanded a ‘price’ for any Iran deal (i.e. massing ‘fracking’ forces close to Aleppo), the pass had been already partially been sold by the US by 2012, when it did not object to what the ‘supporting powers’ wanted.”
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 9th June 13:05
As a side note Assad lost the second largest military base in southern Syria this morning, Brigade 52 in Daraa to several FSA groups. Al Nusra were told to stay away - probably due to the spoils inside the base.
Re splitting Iraq and or Syria into several separate self-governing states I think this may be what the west would prefer but with all the various groups on the scene together with the ever diminishing forces of Assad (controlled entirely by Iran) I cannot see this happening.
Assad's hierarchy will be leaving for Iran or South America in the next couple of years, that is if they're still alive.
Re splitting Iraq and or Syria into several separate self-governing states I think this may be what the west would prefer but with all the various groups on the scene together with the ever diminishing forces of Assad (controlled entirely by Iran) I cannot see this happening.
Assad's hierarchy will be leaving for Iran or South America in the next couple of years, that is if they're still alive.
Mermaid said:
& more Syrian refugees will be en-route to the UK.
For some reason few Syrian's seem to of made it here.Sweden is one of the favorite destinations. My builder friend Mahmood from Daraa came here to Cyprus illegally around 16 years ago as an illegal. Gave up fighting trying to become legal and left for Stockholm last year.
Holding house for a few weeks, then given an apartment plus small allowance in exchange for nothing other than agreeing to learn the lingo.
No restrictions on taking up work.
He loves it there, that is other than the winter temp's.
So, sign at Calais, please go to Sweden.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Transmitter Man said:
Mermaid said:
& more Syrian refugees will be en-route to the UK.
So, sign at Calais, please go to Sweden.Not very nice if there's any truth in this: https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/NewsReports/565401-ira...
Transmitter Man said:
Not very nice if there's any truth in this: https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/NewsReports/565401-ira...
The sectarian divide is becoming even more stark, what a mess it is.Not entirely unexpected in hindsight.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pers-d...
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose...
Russia Promises "Economic And Military" Aid To Syria As US Refloats Assad "Chemical Weapons" Trial Balloon
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-29/russia-pr...
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/10/pers-d...
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose...
Russia Promises "Economic And Military" Aid To Syria As US Refloats Assad "Chemical Weapons" Trial Balloon
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-29/russia-pr...
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