Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Let's be clear, Putin has only his own interests at heart...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facili...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facili...
loafer123 said:
Let's be clear, Putin has only his own interests at heart...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facili...
Why would you expect any different? nations have interests not friends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facili...
It just occurs that his interests to be in the interest of the Syrian people at this stage.
This quite unlike other nations who are supplying weapons and training to known islamist terrorists that have destroyed Syria. You know the dirty quartet of USA, Qatar, Turkey, Saudi Arabia.
The UK did not like Noraid from the USA to the IRA, they would have liked it even less, if that included military training and weapons including ATGM missiles.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 18th September 14:47
QuantumTokoloshi said:
loafer123 said:
Let's be clear, Putin has only his own interests at heart...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facili...
Why would you expect any different? nations have interests not friends. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facili...
It just occurs that his interests to be in the interest of the Syrian people at this stage.
It must have slipped your mind.
loafer123 said:
I simply thought it worth mentioning as, despite you clearly being knowledgeable about Russian interests, you omitted to mention this important factor.
It must have slipped your mind.
Shall we talk about Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, Belize or the Falklands? It must have slipped your mind.
The UK plays the same game.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
loafer123 said:
I simply thought it worth mentioning as, despite you clearly being knowledgeable about Russian interests, you omitted to mention this important factor.
It must have slipped your mind.
Shall we talk about Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, Belize or the Falklands? It must have slipped your mind.
The UK plays the same game.
You keep wandering off.
loafer123 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
loafer123 said:
I simply thought it worth mentioning as, despite you clearly being knowledgeable about Russian interests, you omitted to mention this important factor.
It must have slipped your mind.
Shall we talk about Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, Belize or the Falklands? It must have slipped your mind.
The UK plays the same game.
You keep wandering off.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
loafer123 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
loafer123 said:
I simply thought it worth mentioning as, despite you clearly being knowledgeable about Russian interests, you omitted to mention this important factor.
It must have slipped your mind.
Shall we talk about Diego Garcia, Gibraltar, Belize or the Falklands? It must have slipped your mind.
The UK plays the same game.
You keep wandering off.
[quote=QuantumTokoloshi]
Why would you expect any different? nations have interests not friends.
It just occurs that his interests to be in the interest of the Syrian people at this stage.
Quantum,
Best laugh from you yet.
With 75% (well at least it was) of the demographic makeup of Syria being Sunni Arab, being in the interests of the Syrian people is stretching it, just a wee bit.
Phil
Why would you expect any different? nations have interests not friends.
It just occurs that his interests to be in the interest of the Syrian people at this stage.
Quantum,
Best laugh from you yet.
With 75% (well at least it was) of the demographic makeup of Syria being Sunni Arab, being in the interests of the Syrian people is stretching it, just a wee bit.
Phil
Here is my take on this - possible nonsense
Russia & China are too powerful. USA dont scare them without EU backing. EU too afraid to move on anything because of Russian Gas. North Korea has the nukes that Russia & China keep around as head honcho.
Solution - build gas pipeline from ME to EU and cut off Russian hold on EU. Enable US Missile defence program in Eastern Europe to hit Russia & China. Use South Korea & Japan to counter China/North Korea. f
k up the Chinese economy to put pressure.
Methodology - Iran & Syria & Iraq are too powerful and too friendly with Russia. First - Get Saddam out of the way and destabilise the region - by using USA/UK. Second - Get Assad out of the way by using AQ,ISIS funded by ME gas exporters. Third get Iran into a corner with sanctions and economic pain and choke their oil revenue. Fourth screw the Chinese economy so that they use all their Forex reserves to stabilise their domestic economy and lose their economic power that gets them support from Africa & Asia.
Current situation - Russia waited till the world agreed ISIS are the villains. USA/UK/EU/ME sat on their arses and didnt want to get involved. Now Putin decides he wants to play Bruce Willis and nobody can fault him. Mother Russia saves the Syrians, Iraqis, Iranis and fks EU/USA power hold and all the garbage is left for ME to deal with on their doorstep with falling oil and high social welfare costs that is unafordable.
Possible nonsense, but very realistic on a 15-20 yr vision. This game started around mid 2000s when Saddam started throwing his weight around in OPEC meetings.
Cant figure out how China plays this game apart from keeping Pyongyang in check.....
All the humanitarian costs...well humans die and reproduce...its energy and the powerhold that is more important.
Russia & China are too powerful. USA dont scare them without EU backing. EU too afraid to move on anything because of Russian Gas. North Korea has the nukes that Russia & China keep around as head honcho.
Solution - build gas pipeline from ME to EU and cut off Russian hold on EU. Enable US Missile defence program in Eastern Europe to hit Russia & China. Use South Korea & Japan to counter China/North Korea. f
k up the Chinese economy to put pressure.Methodology - Iran & Syria & Iraq are too powerful and too friendly with Russia. First - Get Saddam out of the way and destabilise the region - by using USA/UK. Second - Get Assad out of the way by using AQ,ISIS funded by ME gas exporters. Third get Iran into a corner with sanctions and economic pain and choke their oil revenue. Fourth screw the Chinese economy so that they use all their Forex reserves to stabilise their domestic economy and lose their economic power that gets them support from Africa & Asia.
Current situation - Russia waited till the world agreed ISIS are the villains. USA/UK/EU/ME sat on their arses and didnt want to get involved. Now Putin decides he wants to play Bruce Willis and nobody can fault him. Mother Russia saves the Syrians, Iraqis, Iranis and f
ks EU/USA power hold and all the garbage is left for ME to deal with on their doorstep with falling oil and high social welfare costs that is unafordable.Possible nonsense, but very realistic on a 15-20 yr vision. This game started around mid 2000s when Saddam started throwing his weight around in OPEC meetings.
Cant figure out how China plays this game apart from keeping Pyongyang in check.....
All the humanitarian costs...well humans die and reproduce...its energy and the powerhold that is more important.
Putin to the rescue: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Why would you expect any different? nations have interests not friends.
It just occurs that his interests to be in the interest of the Syrian people at this stage.
Quantum,It just occurs that his interests to be in the interest of the Syrian people at this stage.
Best laugh from you yet.
With 75% (well at least it was) of the demographic makeup of Syria being Sunni Arab, being in the interests of the Syrian people is stretching it, just a wee bit.
Phil
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 24th September 08:31
This offer sounds pretty good now doesn't it?
guardian said:
West 'ignored Russian offer in 2012 to have Syria's Assad step aside'
Exclusive: Senior negotiator describes rejection of alleged proposal – since which time tens of thousands have been killed and millions displaced
Russia proposed more than three years ago that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, could step down as part of a peace deal, according to a senior negotiator involved in back-channel discussions at the time.
Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal. Since it was made, in 2012, tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions uprooted, causing the world’s gravest refugee crisis since the second world war.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-asideExclusive: Senior negotiator describes rejection of alleged proposal – since which time tens of thousands have been killed and millions displaced
Russia proposed more than three years ago that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, could step down as part of a peace deal, according to a senior negotiator involved in back-channel discussions at the time.
Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal. Since it was made, in 2012, tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions uprooted, causing the world’s gravest refugee crisis since the second world war.
BlackLabel said:
This offer sounds pretty good now doesn't it?
It sounded pretty good then. guardian said:
West 'ignored Russian offer in 2012 to have Syria's Assad step aside'
Exclusive: Senior negotiator describes rejection of alleged proposal – since which time tens of thousands have been killed and millions displaced
Russia proposed more than three years ago that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, could step down as part of a peace deal, according to a senior negotiator involved in back-channel discussions at the time.
Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal. Since it was made, in 2012, tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions uprooted, causing the world’s gravest refugee crisis since the second world war.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/15/west-ignored-russian-offer-in-2012-to-have-syrias-assad-step-asideExclusive: Senior negotiator describes rejection of alleged proposal – since which time tens of thousands have been killed and millions displaced
Russia proposed more than three years ago that Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, could step down as part of a peace deal, according to a senior negotiator involved in back-channel discussions at the time.
Former Finnish president and Nobel peace prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari said western powers failed to seize on the proposal. Since it was made, in 2012, tens of thousands of people have been killed and millions uprooted, causing the world’s gravest refugee crisis since the second world war.
The future's not what it used to be...
Puggit said:
Putin to the rescue: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...
It's really made the US look pretty woeful to the rest of the world. At least someone is sending in some ground troops to deal with IS and that's all I care about!I suspect you will see a major retreat by ISIS in the next 2 months, now that the Russians will be setting out to destroy them, rather than the current wilfully ineffectual US and UK bombing campaign.
I guess the game of "Good guy moderate Islamists" v "Bad guy crazy Islamists" has just ended.
The other interesting question is, as we know US and probably UK spec ops forces are in Syria, aiding the "moderate Islamist crazies" and Kurds, what will happen if they happen to be on the receiving end of a Russian LGB or even Turkish explosive diplomacy, while assisting the current chosen terrorist group?
I suppose using blackwater / XE or some other mercenaries, solves that problem.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-23/endgame-p...
Moscow, realizing that instead of undertaking an earnest effort to fight terror in Syria, the US had simply adopted a containment strategy for ISIS while holding the group up to the public as the boogeyman par excellence, publicly invited Washington to join Russia in a once-and-for-all push to wipe Islamic State from the face of the earth. Of course The Kremlin knew the US wanted no such thing until Assad was gone, but by extending the invitation, Putin had literally called Washington’s bluff, forcing The White House to either admit that this isn’t about ISIS at all, or else join Russia in fighting them. The genius of that move is that if Washington does indeed coordinate its efforts to fight ISIS with Moscow, the US will be fighting to stabilize the very regime it sought to oust.
I guess the game of "Good guy moderate Islamists" v "Bad guy crazy Islamists" has just ended.
The other interesting question is, as we know US and probably UK spec ops forces are in Syria, aiding the "moderate Islamist crazies" and Kurds, what will happen if they happen to be on the receiving end of a Russian LGB or even Turkish explosive diplomacy, while assisting the current chosen terrorist group?
I suppose using blackwater / XE or some other mercenaries, solves that problem.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-23/endgame-p...
Moscow, realizing that instead of undertaking an earnest effort to fight terror in Syria, the US had simply adopted a containment strategy for ISIS while holding the group up to the public as the boogeyman par excellence, publicly invited Washington to join Russia in a once-and-for-all push to wipe Islamic State from the face of the earth. Of course The Kremlin knew the US wanted no such thing until Assad was gone, but by extending the invitation, Putin had literally called Washington’s bluff, forcing The White House to either admit that this isn’t about ISIS at all, or else join Russia in fighting them. The genius of that move is that if Washington does indeed coordinate its efforts to fight ISIS with Moscow, the US will be fighting to stabilize the very regime it sought to oust.
SO, the Green Party are launching a legal challenge over the Prime Ministers decision for a drone strike.
FFS.. What is wrong with the people?
What ever you think of "call me Dave", he was acting in the countries interests, and trying to keep the UK and it's interests safe, then the Green Party decide to do this?
I think he needs to go all "Nathan Jessep" on her, and quote this in Parliament! :
"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you, " and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-24/david-cameron-f...
FFS.. What is wrong with the people?
What ever you think of "call me Dave", he was acting in the countries interests, and trying to keep the UK and it's interests safe, then the Green Party decide to do this?
I think he needs to go all "Nathan Jessep" on her, and quote this in Parliament! :
"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you, " and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-24/david-cameron-f...
Trevatanus said:
SO, the Green Party are launching a legal challenge over the Prime Ministers decision for a drone strike.
FFS.. What is wrong with the people?
What ever you think of "call me Dave", he was acting in the countries interests, and trying to keep the UK and it's interests safe, then the Green Party decide to do this?
I think he needs to go all "Nathan Jessep" on her, and quote this in Parliament! :
"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you, " and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-24/david-cameron-f...
Frightening prospect the so called Greens are. It's just cover for hard left politics.FFS.. What is wrong with the people?
What ever you think of "call me Dave", he was acting in the countries interests, and trying to keep the UK and it's interests safe, then the Green Party decide to do this?
I think he needs to go all "Nathan Jessep" on her, and quote this in Parliament! :
"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you, " and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-24/david-cameron-f...
For instance this grinning commie, and the scary prospect of everyone being made to give and receive an act of "solidarity" at the end of the interview 6min 30secs. http://youtu.be/VB0_njAf32A
Which I assume is code for dictats from "The Boss".
Northern Munkee said:
Trevatanus said:
SO, the Green Party are launching a legal challenge over the Prime Ministers decision for a drone strike.
FFS.. What is wrong with the people?
What ever you think of "call me Dave", he was acting in the countries interests, and trying to keep the UK and it's interests safe, then the Green Party decide to do this?
I think he needs to go all "Nathan Jessep" on her, and quote this in Parliament! :
"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you, " and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-24/david-cameron-f...
Frightening prospect the so called Greens are. It's just cover for hard left politics.FFS.. What is wrong with the people?
What ever you think of "call me Dave", he was acting in the countries interests, and trying to keep the UK and it's interests safe, then the Green Party decide to do this?
I think he needs to go all "Nathan Jessep" on her, and quote this in Parliament! :
"You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you, " and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-09-24/david-cameron-f...
For instance this grinning commie, and the scary prospect of everyone being made to give and receive an act of "solidarity" at the end of the interview 6min 30secs. http://youtu.be/VB0_njAf32A
Which I assume is code for dictats from "The Boss".
If only we had this when Mr Blair and his 45 minute dodgy dossier was being pushed down our throats.
Mr Cameron, while prime minister should have to answer either, to the electorate or the judiciary for actions he takes unilaterally which involves extra judicial killing of UK citizens.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff