Meanwhile, In Syria

[QuantumTokoloshi]

The Don of Croy said:

I heard our Defence Sec on R4 this morning, bemoaning the Russian interference in Syrian affairs.

He thinks Iraq may be an example for how Syria could develop - apparently it now has a settled democratic leadership that respects all religions.

I'm not sure I believe the man, tbh.

If we topple Assad, would that stop terrorism in Syria? Halt ISIS? Stem the flow of refugees? If it did then I'd probably be in favour, but I cannot see how they'd guarantee those outcomes. Keep Assad - strengthen him even - and there's a chance he might stabilise his country, surely?

I listened to that interview, I could not believe the amount of absolute drivel he was selling. I am even angrier at the R4 interviewer for not actually challenging him. A 5 year old could have ripped his whole premise apart, with a few probing questions. It would mean diluting the official message.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 7th October 13:19

[Driller]

It always amazes me how so many of these so called journalists toe the government line. How do they sleep at night?

[DAVEVO9]

Get in there !!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-344654...

Russia has launched rocket strikes on Islamic State targets in Syria from its warships in the Caspian Sea, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu says.

Mr Shoigu was quoted by Russian media as saying four warships launched 26 sea-based cruise missiles on 11 targets, destroying them.

President Putin praised the Russian military, saying the targets were about 1,500km (932 miles) away.

Russia denies claims that its week-long strikes have hit non-IS targets.

[Lucas Ayde]

DAVEVO9 said:

Get in there !!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-344654...

Russia has launched rocket strikes on Islamic State targets in Syria from its warships in the Caspian Sea, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu says.

Mr Shoigu was quoted by Russian media as saying four warships launched 26 sea-based cruise missiles on 11 targets, destroying them.

President Putin praised the Russian military, saying the targets were about 1,500km (932 miles) away.

Russia denies claims that its week-long strikes have hit non-IS targets.

I imagine they're using the opportunity to test out their high tech military hardware in real battlefield conditions - just as the West has been doing for years (decades, actually). Also of course, acts as a showcase for arms sales.

[TheExcession]

DAVEVO9 said:

Get in there !!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-344654...

Russia has launched rocket strikes on Islamic State targets in Syria from its warships in the Caspian Sea, Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu says.

Mr Shoigu was quoted by Russian media as saying four warships launched 26 sea-based cruise missiles on 11 targets, destroying them.

President Putin praised the Russian military, saying the targets were about 1,500km (932 miles) away.

Russia denies claims that its week-long strikes have hit non-IS targets.

They do seem to be getting stuck in - if you put RT (Russia Today) on your telly they seem to be rolling the story.

Allegedly Iraq have requested Russia to hit ISIL targets on their soil.

It really is looking like some kind of multinational cluster fook where the Western hammering a frozen sausage into, or drawing cock shapes with weed killer on the lawns of ISIS approach has been booted out of the park in favour of Russia testing out its capability to nuke the whole lot from orbit.

Why am I reminded of this 17:14 mins in (Just after the bit about Minister's Brains disease).

EDIT to remove rogue apostrophe.

Edited by TheExcession on Wednesday 7th October 14:30

[FredClogs]

Lucas Ayde said:

I imagine they're using the opportunity to test out their high tech military hardware in real battlefield conditions - just as the West has been doing for years (decades, actually). Also of course, acts as a showcase for arms sales.

And don't forget it's always cheaper to use these suckers up when they're nearing their shelf life than to decommission them.

[Transmitter Man]

Lucas Ayde said:

I imagine they're using the opportunity to test out their high tech military hardware in real battlefield conditions - just as the West has been doing for years (decades, actually). Also of course, acts as a showcase for arms sales.

Well, in that case you better check with Quantum & Sherz if their boss has a plan B because he's lost three more tanks just in the past hour alone. All video's digitally date stamped.

I have another 26 video's from today alone of TOW hits from different (non-ISIS) groups of opposition.

If you think the Hughes Corp TOW has a footprint of around 1m sq Putin will have to carpet bomb much of the country to eradicate all of them.

I'm pretty sure the T72 popping it's lid will do wonders for arms sales when not even the reactive amour can withstand this anti-tank wire guided missile (range 2.5km) however there is a pilot or two that escaped the inferno with singed eyebrows and his bottle of vodka.

https://youtu.be/7Jn1vN5Bz0E

https://youtu.be/CD_VIYWGDsg

https://youtu.be/mGY9UzCSpWs

This will turn into another Afghanistan for those pesky commi's and this time they're not up against a 30 year old AK47 with a turban.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Wednesday 7th October 15:36

Edited by Transmitter Man on Wednesday 7th October 15:40

Edited by Transmitter Man on Wednesday 7th October 17:01

[soad]

/\
stty outdated armor and high explosive Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile...

[TheExcession]

Transmitter Man said:

This will turn into another Afghanistan

That's my concern too, it's looking like one God Unholy cluster fvck at the moment.

[Gandahar]

Transmitter Man said:

Lucas Ayde said:

I imagine they're using the opportunity to test out their high tech military hardware in real battlefield conditions - just as the West has been doing for years (decades, actually). Also of course, acts as a showcase for arms sales.

Well, in that case you better check with Quantum & Sherz if their boss has a plan B because he's lost three more tanks just in the past hour alone. All video's digitally date stamped.

I have another 26 video's from today alone of TOW hits from different (non-ISIS) groups of opposition.

If you think the Hughes Corp TOW has a footprint of around 1m sq Putin will have to carpet bomb much of the country to eradicate all of them.

I'm pretty sure the T72 popping it's lid will do wonders for arms sales when not even the reactive amour can withstand this anti-tank wire guided missile (range 2.5km) however there is a pilot or two that escaped the inferno with singed eyebrows and his bottle of vodka.

https://youtu.be/7Jn1vN5Bz0E

https://youtu.be/CD_VIYWGDsg

https://youtu.be/mGY9UzCSpWs

This will turn into another Afghanistan for those pesky commi's and this time they're not up against a 30 year old AK47 with a turban.

Phil

The problem is Phil that although TOW strikes make good youtube video's they won't win a war for you. The humble AK-47 is more likely to do that. For instance in Afghanistan we've seen lots of footage of spectacular munitions being shot off and yet the Taliban with the AK47 and the RPG are taking an ever stronger foothold.

So no rebel group in Syria is going to win just firing expensive TOWs, when it gets really murky and nasty they will be stopped from getting them at all.

The problem is this is a proxy war by the west and now by the east. Adding to the religious conflict in that country between various sects.

It's ironic that the Arab Spring was seen by the west as something to replace dictators and allow people to live in a modern peaceful democracy. Which has happened, they have all migrated to Europe because their own countries are now a shell pocked shambles.

Nice work US, France and UK

Is Libya now better off?
Is Tunisia now better off?
Is Egypt now better off?
Is Syria now better off?

Going back, is even Iraq even better off now? Maybe, but they paid a very heavy price.

Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 7th October 20:09

[lemmingjames]

are those videos the ones just shown on bbc news? I wonder how long it will be until the FSA get stingers considering how low the Hind's are flying

[Transmitter Man]

Gandahar said:

The problem is Phil that although TOW strikes make good youtube video's they won't win a war for you. The humble AK-47 is more likely to do that. For instance in Afghanistan we've seen lots of footage of spectacular munitions being shot off and yet the Taliban with the AK47 and the RPG are taking an ever stronger foothold.

So no rebel group in Syria is going to win just firing expensive TOWs, when it gets really murky and nasty they will be stopped from getting them at all.

The problem is this is a proxy war by the west and now by the east. Adding to the religious conflict in that country between various sects.

It's ironic that the Arab Spring was seen by the west as something to replace dictators and allow people to live in a modern peaceful democracy. Which has happened, they have all migrated to Europe because their own countries are now a shell pocked shambles.

Nice work US, France and UK

Is Libya now better off?
Is Tunisia now better off?
Is Egypt now better off?
Is Syria now better off?

Going back, is even Iraq even better off now? Maybe, but they paid a very heavy price.

Edited by Gandahar on Wednesday 7th October 20:09

I think given time Tunisia should be added to the list of better now than before although it would help if the former presidents wife would return the country's gold reserves which left the country with her! If you think this all kicked off with the street seller committing suicide out of desperation to survive.

Re the AK's. I think you have a point but while the remnants of Assads army may be using them I imagine the new Russian troops will not and therefore you need to stop them in their tracks from a greater distance, or at least slow down their advance by knocking out not just the tanks but the troop carriers. When you get into house to house combat then I think both sides will be on an even footing although I get the impression with Assad + Iran + Russia + Hezbollah they will just continue their large sweeps on towns & villages and will lose a lot of men on the way.

Do the rulers care one iota, I don't think so.

All the while America + Turkey + Saudi + Qatar have way more money that Russia & Iran combined, especially now due to the low oil price, one wonders how long this conflict can continue. I'm not including Turkey or the new Kurdistan.

Of course the map of the middle east will also of changed forever after all is over.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Thursday 8th October 07:39

[AJS-]

Is Russia making US and friends look a bit stupid here? They seem to have done quite a lot in a week where the western forces have achieved little in a year.

[Scuffers]

AJS- said:

Is Russia making US and friends look a bit stupid here? They seem to have done quite a lot in a week where the western forces have achieved little in a year.

basically, yes.

much the same as they have made us in the EU look inept over the Crimea and Ukraine

[devonshiredave]

Transmitter Man said:

I think given time Tunisia should be added to the list of better now than before although it would help if the former presidents wife would return the country's gold reserves which left the country with her! If you think this all kicked off with the street seller committing suicide out of desperation to survive.

Re the AK's. I think you have a point but while the remnants of Assads army may be using them I imagine the new Russian troops will not and therefore you need to stop them in their tracks from a greater distance, or at least slow down their advance by knocking out not just the tanks but the troop carriers. When you get into house to house combat then I think both sides will be on an even footing although I get the impression with Assad + Iran + Russia + Hezbollah they will just continue their large sweeps on towns & villages and will lose a lot of men on the way.

Do the rulers care one iota, I don't think so.

All the while America + Turkey + Saudi + Qatar have way more money that Russia & Iran combined, especially now due to the low oil price, one wonders how long this conflict can continue. I'm not including Turkey or the new Kurdistan.

Of course the map of the middle east will also of changed forever after all is over.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Thursday 8th October 07:39

Why should we be at all bothered that Russia/Iran are going to clean up some of the middle east mess? Frankly,the fact that the US is continuing to support terrorist groups in the area to facilite yet another energy strategy shows how little their game has progressed. And as for the Sunni Saudi/Qatar alliance...... Have we really forgotten so quickly?

The US has supported many an evil dictator when it has suited their needs (see central/south America and south east Asia for starters) why should we be taking the moral high ground because the Russians decide to do the same?

[Esseesse]

Transmitter Man said:

I'm pretty sure the T72 popping it's lid will do wonders for arms sales when not even the reactive amour can withstand this anti-tank wire guided missile (range 2.5km) however there is a pilot or two that escaped the inferno with singed eyebrows and his bottle of vodka.

https://youtu.be/7Jn1vN5Bz0E

https://youtu.be/CD_VIYWGDsg

https://youtu.be/mGY9UzCSpWs

I am amazed that people are able get get out of those tanks after they've been hit. Presumably they can't hear? What is the weapon that they're using?

[PRTVR]

Esseesse said:

Transmitter Man said:

I'm pretty sure the T72 popping it's lid will do wonders for arms sales when not even the reactive amour can withstand this anti-tank wire guided missile (range 2.5km) however there is a pilot or two that escaped the inferno with singed eyebrows and his bottle of vodka.

https://youtu.be/7Jn1vN5Bz0E

https://youtu.be/CD_VIYWGDsg

https://youtu.be/mGY9UzCSpWs

I am amazed that people are able get get out of those tanks after they've been hit. Presumably they can't hear? What is the weapon that they're using?

The terrorists or freedom fighters are using American TOW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW

[QuantumTokoloshi]

PRTVR said:

Esseesse said:

Transmitter Man said:

I'm pretty sure the T72 popping it's lid will do wonders for arms sales when not even the reactive amour can withstand this anti-tank wire guided missile (range 2.5km) however there is a pilot or two that escaped the inferno with singed eyebrows and his bottle of vodka.

https://youtu.be/7Jn1vN5Bz0E

https://youtu.be/CD_VIYWGDsg

https://youtu.be/mGY9UzCSpWs

I am amazed that people are able get get out of those tanks after they've been hit. Presumably they can't hear? What is the weapon that they're using?

The terrorists or freedom fighters are using American TOW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW

What fun there will be when TOW missiles start popping up in Europe, the USA or Saudi, lucky they are the moderate Islamist fundamentalists or we would be in real trouble.

The Abrams is not fairing much better in Yemen or the Merkeva in Lebanon.

[scherzkeks]

PRTVR said:

The terrorists or freedom fighters are using American TOW
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BGM-71_TOW

You should alert the US Treasury Dept. Word has it they are investigating Toyota to find out why ISIS and its ilk have so many new Hiluxes and Land Cruisers. The comedy value is off the charts.

[The Don of Croy]

I know this is off topic, but, every time I see an article on how our troops today are resembling some form of cyber-warrior with £££ of kit then look at a real hot war zone (like Syria) I do wonder if how much of that stuff is relevant?

A kid with an assault rifle has been the default 'fighting unit' in many of the conflicts going back to when I was young enough to watch the Vietnam conflict on the evening news.

Aside from GW1 and GW2 (which were over pdq) many of these conflicts become nasty elongated skirmishes.

And yet every year we find better and more expensive tech to pop onto the tactical vest of our willing soldiers.

Apols for derailment...