Meanwhile, In Syria

Author
Discussion

Cobnapint

8,596 posts

150 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
devonshiredave said:
Why should we be at all bothered that Russia/Iran are going to clean up some of the middle east mess?
Quite. This is one particular mess we should stay out of, at least on the ground.

I see NATO are having a jobs-worth meeting today to discuss Russia's involvement in Syria. They'll no doubt conclude that they need to add to the opening scenes of WWIII by piling more armour into Turkey as a 'show' of solidarity with it's NATO member.

All it's going to do is stir the st. If Russia wants to flatten ISIS, let them.

randlemarcus

13,507 posts

230 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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The Don of Croy said:
I know this is off topic, but, every time I see an article on how our troops today are resembling some form of cyber-warrior with £££ of kit then look at a real hot war zone (like Syria) I do wonder if how much of that stuff is relevant?

A kid with an assault rifle has been the default 'fighting unit' in many of the conflicts going back to when I was young enough to watch the Vietnam conflict on the evening news.

Aside from GW1 and GW2 (which were over pdq) many of these conflicts become nasty elongated skirmishes.

And yet every year we find better and more expensive tech to pop onto the tactical vest of our willing soldiers.

Apols for derailment...
Most of the new stuff is about information. Its all very well having a dozen skinnies with AK47s, but if you can tell your four guys with tech to sneak left around them, they are useless. Especially if your four guys can then call in the Apache.

Blokes with rifles are actually quite inefficient - I seem to recall the WW2 numbers were something like 10000 rounds for every hit.

Transmitter Man

4,253 posts

223 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Not my words;

There's a pattern here.
Kurds stand and fight with US and alliance nations assisting....result, Kurds stay and get stronger.

VS

Assad stands and fights with Russia & Iran assisting........result, Syrians leave.

Russian hypocrisy exposed........welfare of Syrian people is not Putin's motive.........power is.

Dependence on exclusive use of force is always clear evidence of basic insecurity. In war both victor and vanquished suffer defeat, it's a terrible price to pay.

Syria once had a strong economy and a well educated prosperous society with a priceless cultural heritage the world valued highly as something to be shared and appreciated for all future generations.............now destroyed by those who know not what they do........so sad.'

Phil

Transmitter Man

4,253 posts

223 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
...and the latest protests from Kafranbel in Idlib;

http://www.albawaba.com/loop/kafranbel-syrias-famo...

Who speaks with forked tongue, the Syrian people or RT?

Phil


scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Transmitter Man said:
Syria once had a strong economy and a well educated prosperous society with a priceless cultural heritage the world valued highly as something to be shared and appreciated for all future generations.............now destroyed by those who know not what they do........so sad.'

Phil
Destroyed by those armed and trained by Western forces seeking control of the region for secure access to petrochemical resources. The cynical nature of the policy and the tragedy of the results are matched only be the frequency with which such methods have been employed in the name of "spreading democracy." So sad.

Four Litre

2,013 posts

191 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
I think once Putin has sorted out Syria (in a matter of weeks) then some serious questions need to be asked as to WTF has been going on over there. Why can one team rock up and sort out the impossible mess, when a bunch of the worlds 'top' military countries cant seem to get the situation even remotely under control in years and with billions of dollars.

The whole thing smells fishier than a rotten fish stew. Clearly there is a lot more to this than we are being told, demonstrated by the ease in which Russia have dealt with the situation. Hopefully given time, a lot of whats been going on will come out. Quite possibly it will be that we are being ruled by government that really have S**t for brains, which wouldnt be that big a surprise. However, is there something more sinister been going on here? At one point all the wild internet rhumours about the CIA, Mossad etc etc I just blanked as pure BS, but now Im not so sure.

Personally, Mr Putin has quite possibly pulled one of the biggest PR stunts for Russia the world has ever seen. Hes literally made Obama, Dave and Hollandaise sauce look like a bunch total incompetent fools.

Im hoping Iraq then as Putin for help, that would cause some serious red faces.







Edited by Four Litre on Thursday 8th October 10:50

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/iraq-...

This could all get very interesting.

If they're aiming to be a major world power who can look Washington in the eye - and they clearly are - then Putin has played a blinder here.

TheJimi

24,862 posts

242 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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Are the Russians actually as successful as they appear to be here?

Have the coalition been sandbagging in their offensive against ISIS?

I genuinely don't know what to believe.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
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Four Litre said:
I think once Putin has sorted out Syria (in a matter of weeks) then some serious questions need to be asked as to WTF has been going on over there. Why can one team rock up and sort out the impossible mess, when a bunch of the worlds 'top' military countries cant seem to get the situation even remotely under control in years and with billions of dollars.
There has always been some confusion on where we stand with ISIS to me. At the very least, have ISIS not emerged from and are supported by the Wahhabi's in Saudi? And of course, Saudi is our friend in the region...

I have seen some mention recently that a modern military would defeat an ISIS like not so well organised force easily and quickly. Have we given ISIS an easy ride while they happen to be furthering our/US ambitions in the region? IIRC there were some leaked US documents (and yes of course it's easy to be cynical of their authenticity) that were broadly suggestive of this kind of position.

Zod

35,295 posts

257 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
AJS- said:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/iraq-...

This could all get very interesting.

If they're aiming to be a major world power who can look Washington in the eye - and they clearly are - then Putin has played a blinder here.
A world power with a shrinking population that manufactures very little and exports little other than commodities that are currently depressed in price. I wonder why Putin is projecting military power.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Zod said:
A world power with a shrinking population that manufactures very little and exports little other than commodities that are currently depressed in price. I wonder why Putin is projecting military power.
Could it be because Assad is his customer? Or because he'd rather a gas pipeline from Qatar in to Turkey/EU wasn't built?

DMN

2,983 posts

138 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Zod said:
AJS- said:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/iraq-...

This could all get very interesting.

If they're aiming to be a major world power who can look Washington in the eye - and they clearly are - then Putin has played a blinder here.
A world power with a shrinking population that manufactures very little and exports little other than commodities that are currently depressed in price. I wonder why Putin is projecting military power.
Because its all he has left.

rich85uk

3,312 posts

178 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Four Litre said:
I think once Putin has sorted out Syria (in a matter of weeks) then some serious questions need to be asked as to WTF has been going on over there. Why can one team rock up and sort out the impossible mess, when a bunch of the worlds 'top' military countries cant seem to get the situation even remotely under control in years and with billions of dollars.

The whole thing smells fishier than a rotten fish stew. Clearly there is a lot more to this than we are being told, demonstrated by the ease in which Russia have dealt with the situation. Hopefully given time, a lot of whats been going on will come out. Quite possibly it will be that we are being ruled by government that really have S**t for brains, which wouldnt be that big a surprise. However, is there something more sinister been going on here? At one point all the wild internet rhumours about the CIA, Mossad etc etc I just blanked as pure BS, but now Im not so sure.

Personally, Mr Putin has quite possibly pulled one of the biggest PR stunts for Russia the world has ever seen. Hes literally made Obama, Dave and Hollandaise sauce look like a bunch total incompetent fools.

Im hoping Iraq then as Putin for help, that would cause some serious red faces.







Edited by Four Litre on Thursday 8th October 10:50
I suspect the west are secretly stting themselves over Russia's staggering progress and dreading the pictures that will be posted of western supplied weapons with dead terrorists once Russia and Iran launch the ground attacks

Also good for Russia to show off its capabilities too, launching 26 missiles from nearly 1000 miles away is just the start

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
Have we given ISIS an easy ride while they happen to be furthering our/US ambitions in the region? IIRC there were some leaked US documents (and yes of course it's easy to be cynical of their authenticity) that were broadly suggestive of this kind of position.
I posted the Defense Intelligence Agency doc earlier in the thread.

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Four Litre said:
Personally, Mr Putin has quite possibly pulled one of the biggest PR stunts for Russia the world has ever seen. Hes literally made Obama, Dave and Hollandaise sauce look like a bunch total incompetent fools.
Which they are.....

However, a big difference for Putin, is he doesn't really have a problem with too many liberal media at home creating problems and forcing his political hand to tie the hands of his mil with red tape configured ROE, which means they can be a little bit more....err, shall we say 'free' to do what needs doing.


Norco

40 posts

118 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
"Russia's intervention in the Middle East, including a new security and intelligence-sharing agreement with Iran, Iraq and Syria, has raised concerns in Washington that its former Cold War enemy is gaining clout in the oil-producing region. "

Speaks volumes.......

This could go two ways with Russia. They could gain far more influence over the new middle-east with all the attendant baggage or they could see themselves embroiled in a long murderous civil war or collection of civil wars that will drain them financially and morally. Only the middle-east can sort the middles-east's problems.

TLandCruiser

2,788 posts

197 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Lets not think less of Russia for helping Syria for their own self interests, considering its what we were doing too and at the end of the day Russia was asked for help from Assad where as we just came knocking on his door.

bobbylondonuk

2,197 posts

189 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
The Yanks & other NATO allies will be shown as total idiots soon. Once the ground troops start moving, it will be like clearing the amazon woodlands by bulldozer. Assad + Hizbollah + Iran + Iraq from all sides will start kettling them all and wiping them out.


The west will be too busy showing pictures of devastation and crying out that they are bad guys who dont care about bombing kids.

Putin and his buddies will be popping champers toasting a job well done in 6 months compared to what the whole world could not do in 4 years. And if we show them pictures of dead kids, they will look you in the face and say 'tough! that is why we should never do war again in this region.' case closed!

Four Litre

2,013 posts

191 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Its already started with the pics of injured children, there was a post in The Wail yesterday showing a toddler with shrapnel injuries to his head, stating this was the fault of Russia dropping dodgy old bombs inaccrately. Shocking to see, especially as a parent, the same as the little boy who drowned. But WTF do people think happens in a war zone - board games and picnics.

No mentioned of the USA wiping out a hospital and burning the patients alive in thier beds by accident!

As soon as people realise war isnt a civilised activity and its sole aim is to physically kill the other side the better. We have been skipping around the ME trying to engage with the community for far to long, and trying to be the friend of everyone, doesnt work.

As with all situations - its a shame we cant work with Russia to eliminate ISIS. Could be something we could all come together on for the greater good. And maybe, get a small discount from Grand Master Putin on fuel!!!


MikeT66

2,680 posts

123 months

Thursday 8th October 2015
quotequote all
Four Litre said:
I think once Putin has sorted out Syria (in a matter of weeks) then some serious questions need to be asked as to WTF has been going on over there. Why can one team rock up and sort out the impossible mess, when a bunch of the worlds 'top' military countries cant seem to get the situation even remotely under control in years and with billions of dollars.

The whole thing smells fishier than a rotten fish stew. Clearly there is a lot more to this than we are being told, demonstrated by the ease in which Russia have dealt with the situation. Hopefully given time, a lot of whats been going on will come out. Quite possibly it will be that we are being ruled by government that really have S**t for brains, which wouldnt be that big a surprise. However, is there something more sinister been going on here? At one point all the wild internet rumours about the CIA, Mossad etc etc I just blanked as pure BS, but now Im not so sure.

Edited by Four Litre on Thursday 8th October 10:50
100% this, Four Litre. I, too, am beginning to sense some horrendous duplicity by the west here, resulting in lives being needlessly wasted and ruined. The only thing I can think to back-up the west's ridiculous position is some sort of 'non/semi-involvement' tampering due to getting their fingers burned in the fires of Iraq/Libya, etc.

However, the more I read the more I worry. If these fears are correct, then this is political brinksmanship and double-dealing of the worst kind, and those responsible should be brought to book, like that bd Blair should have been.