Meanwhile, In Syria

[Asterix]

Axionknight said:

Asterix said:

Not often it happens but I had to look up 'Vituperating'.

Slaggin' someone off, innit?

Yeah - I like the word!

Here's a good example - Axionknight was a jumentous chap!

[scherzkeks]

AJS- said:

Depending how you measure your foreign policy cock ups I think you could make a case for it being bigger than Vietnam which was ultimately fairly contained and local, with pretty limited repercussions once they pulled out. This will keep running for decades to come, and it's hard to see any resolution.

Good point.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

The great western democratic allies, Saudi Arabia, are making a habit of blowing up wedding parties in Yemen. I wonder if they used those terrible Syrian barrel bombs or just ordinary bombs ?

It is odd how it did not even make the main media news the first time.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/world/middlee...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 12th October 16:24

[QuantumTokoloshi]

An analysis of the campaign sea cruise missile launch by Russia.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/shi...

[Zod]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

An analysis of the campaign sea cruise missile launch by Russia.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/shi...

So, in summary, Russia wanted to show that it has this capability in the Caspian, but the missiles didn't do much damage, some may have fallen in Iran and they targeted the Aleppo area, not ISIS.

[Esseesse]

Cobnapint said:

Disgusting that the likes of IS are now benefiting from our 'generosity', but I suppose the initial intention was to support the rights of those being brutally oppressed in Syria that wanted free elections...

I don't believe this has ever been even remotely the real reason. These 'reasons' have been determined to be the best way to sell our interventions to the public.

[Transmitter Man]

Esseesse said:

Cobnapint said:

Disgusting that the likes of IS are now benefiting from our 'generosity', but I suppose the initial intention was to support the rights of those being brutally oppressed in Syria that wanted free elections...

I don't believe this has ever been even remotely the real reason. These 'reasons' have been determined to be the best way to sell our interventions to the public.

Well there's probably many that think you're wrong.

Read down to the mention of the 15 year old writing graffiti and the ticking off by the local police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_uprising_phase...

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

Esseesse said:

Cobnapint said:

Disgusting that the likes of IS are now benefiting from our 'generosity', but I suppose the initial intention was to support the rights of those being brutally oppressed in Syria that wanted free elections...

I don't believe this has ever been even remotely the real reason. These 'reasons' have been determined to be the best way to sell our interventions to the public.

Well there's probably many that think you're wrong.

Read down to the mention of the 15 year old writing graffiti and the ticking off by the local police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_uprising_phase...

Phil

And the uprising was just a spontaneous uprising by the Syrian people? Much like the spontaneous uprising in Libya?

How hugely convenient that it happens to coincide with countries that have been identified years befor, as targets of overthrow, sorry, provided the gift of democracy by the US government.

Venezuela, Cuba, DRC are all au fait with those spontaneously sponsored uprisings.

You do remember bloody Sunday?

Seems not only dictators over react to violent protest based within religious fervour.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 12th October 19:28

[Zod]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Transmitter Man said:

Esseesse said:

Cobnapint said:

Disgusting that the likes of IS are now benefiting from our 'generosity', but I suppose the initial intention was to support the rights of those being brutally oppressed in Syria that wanted free elections...

I don't believe this has ever been even remotely the real reason. These 'reasons' have been determined to be the best way to sell our interventions to the public.

Well there's probably many that think you're wrong.

Read down to the mention of the 15 year old writing graffiti and the ticking off by the local police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_uprising_phase...

Phil

And the uprising was just a spontaneous uprising by the Syrian people? Much like the spontaneous uprising in Libya?

How hugely convenient that it happens to coincide with countries that have been identified years befor, as targets of overthrow, sorry, provided the gift of democracy by the US government.

Venezuela, Cuba, DRC are all au fait with those spontaneously sponsored uprisings.

You do remember bloody Sunday?

Seems not only dictators over react to violent protest based within religious fervour.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 12th October 19:28

you'll have to help me out here: who sponsored Bloody Sunday?

How does Putin deal with violent and non-violent protest in Russia?

[Transmitter Man]

Aura @AuraSalix
25 year old Engineering student Rama Al Khudr, Alawite from Qirdaha Latakia raped by 5 Russian soldiers found dead near Hmaimim airport.

That will raise moral if true.

...and Pukin think's he can win this war.

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

Extraordinary video from Idlib, showing 100s of cluster munitions, possibly fired by BM-30 Smerch, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-30_Smerch) landing in Skek:

I thought cluster munitions were banned after Serbia, anyone?

https://youtu.be/MsCbG0t1Ds8

Phil

[Budflicker]

Phil ,

Clearly both sides commit all kinds of atrocities and each sides media will portray the other as the real bad guy when the truth is that both sides are as bad as each other normally.

I think that a lot of people on here that you are debating with understand the Russians/Syrian government are up to no good but are also tired of the media being so biased in its reporting.

I understand our government must get up to all sorts of mischief however I'm not naive enough to understand that I live in a fantastic country with an enviable way of life compared to most of the world as a result of history and government policy through the years.

This fighting may or may not be about a pipeline through Syria, at the end of the day that pipeline might prolong our comfortable standard of living going forward, unfortuatly the Russians would prefer that pipeline is not built and that could be an issue.

I don't think giving manpads and TOW units to unknown rebels is a great idea though.

Out of genuine Intreast what do you get out of so staunchly defending your viewpoint and going to the trouble of finding all these YouTube films taken by freedom fighters/terroists and putting them on here?

[Axionknight]

Asterix said:

Axionknight said:

Asterix said:

Not often it happens but I had to look up 'Vituperating'.

Slaggin' someone off, innit?

Yeah - I like the word!

Here's a good example - Axionknight was a jumentous chap!

I'm hurt

(Had to look that one up).

[lemmingjames]

Depends on if they signed up or not;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluste...

http://www.stopclustermunitions.org/en-gb/the-trea...

[aeropilot]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Transmitter Man said:

Esseesse said:

Cobnapint said:

Disgusting that the likes of IS are now benefiting from our 'generosity', but I suppose the initial intention was to support the rights of those being brutally oppressed in Syria that wanted free elections...

I don't believe this has ever been even remotely the real reason. These 'reasons' have been determined to be the best way to sell our interventions to the public.

Well there's probably many that think you're wrong.

Read down to the mention of the 15 year old writing graffiti and the ticking off by the local police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_uprising_phase...

Phil

And the uprising was just a spontaneous uprising by the Syrian people? Much like the spontaneous uprising in Libya?

How hugely convenient that it happens to coincide with countries that have been identified years befor, as targets of overthrow, sorry, provided the gift of democracy by the US government.

Exactly.

While far from a utopian paradise, Syria prior to 2011 wasn't that bad a place to live compared to many parts of the ME......but, still ripe for western lead regime change from some sort of stability to outright anarchy in the mistaken belief that some sort of western style democracy will suddenly appear overnight

[QuantumTokoloshi]

The US and probably other nations, are now air dropping munitions into Syria to "vetted groups". You know those vetted moderate Fundamental Islamist groups, like Al-Nusra. 50 tons worth of arms and ammunition dumped in the desert. I wonder why they chose to air drop? It would probably be related to the "aid" convoys are being treated to Sukhoi explosive freedom and democracy.

How do they know who is actually receiving the weapons? Answers on a postcode please. The US could not ensure that ISIS did not get the weapons when they were being driven in, so not sure air drop will be an improvement.

I do love the re-branding taking place now, the moderate crazies are now called "Syrian Arab Coalition". I guess the Free Syrian Army was not catchy enough and Al Qaeda has a few negative connotations.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/12/politics/syria-r...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-12/us-paradr...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 13th October 09:04

[devonshiredave]

Transmitter Man said:

Extraordinary video from Idlib, showing 100s of cluster munitions, possibly fired by BM-30 Smerch, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-30_Smerch) landing in Skek:

I thought cluster munitions were banned after Serbia, anyone?

https://youtu.be/MsCbG0t1Ds8

Phil

Your favourite terrorist supporting buddies the Saudi's don't seem to have a problem using them eithet. Strange you're quiet on that one..

[QuantumTokoloshi]

devonshiredave said:

Transmitter Man said:

Extraordinary video from Idlib, showing 100s of cluster munitions, possibly fired by BM-30 Smerch, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-30_Smerch) landing in Skek:

I thought cluster munitions were banned after Serbia, anyone?

https://youtu.be/MsCbG0t1Ds8

Phil

Your favorite terrorist supporting buddies the Saudi's don't seem to have a problem using them either. Strange you're quiet on that one..

The USA seem fine with cluster munitions, so they must be good for aiding Freedom and democracy then, along with land mines.

[Transmitter Man]

When and where did the US last use cluster munitions and what's your personal thoughts on them being used in Syria?

Phil

[scherzkeks]

Transmitter Man said:

When and where did the US last use cluster munitions

Phil

Iraq, 2003-'06. Nearly 13,000 of them. But I suspect you don't really care about the use of cluster munitions, so it's rather a waste of time discussing them.