Meanwhile, In Syria

[Transmitter Man]

The Don of Croy said:

Did anybody else see the report from Amnesty citing the Kurds for 'humanitarian crimes'?

According to AI the Kurds have been sweeping through the countryside to flush out ISIL/Daesh, clearing communities and then flattening the buildings so they cannot return, regardless of whether they are enemy or not. A kind of ethnic cleansing.

Probably not the first time it's happened.

This is a really complicated and thoroughly unpleasant bit of history unfolding. Lots of instances of unwarranted or over-zealous reactions to perceived threats, enabling future generations to be taught what utter bds their enemies are. And so it goes on.

Still, at least we get to prosecute some more Lockerbie bombers soon.

R,

Please spend a few minutes and read this, which I did post earlier for an alternative view (from the front line): http://kurdishquestion.com/index.php/kurdistan/wes...

Now, are you 'inclined' to believe A1 or at least give this fella the time of day?

Be fair.

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

Not my words;

The Syrian war is above all, about the victory of the people of Syria over ranks of external enemies.

Not about being a geopolitical plaything, or the favorite coffee-hour topic of ignorant internet armchair generals thousands of miles off.

Putin of course thinks that he can win this for Asad; but for all his military support and his strategic intelligence (neither sadly matched among Western leaders at the moment), it isn't going to happen. If it were possible, it would already have happened.

He is going to learn a Lesson of history the hard way.
__________________________________

Phil

[Puggit]

Sky reporting that Turkey have shot down an unidentified plane on the Syrian border... (should this be in the war with Russia thread!?)

ETA - now being reported as a drone

[DMN]

On the BBC too:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34551155

[QuantumTokoloshi]

DMN said:

On the BBC too:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34551155

That is not Russian military hardware or military hardware at all, looks to be more RC hobby aircraft than military drone. It maybe a homemade surveillance aircraft of some sort. The drone equivalent of the "hell cannon"

[DMN]

Wishfull thinking on your part.

Early reports are thats its an Orlan 10 UAV; made by Russia. I'm sure it was just on holiday.

http://www.aa.com.tr/tr/pg/foto-galeri/turk-hava-s...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlan-10

They've been using them for some time in Syria:
http://spioenkop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/from-ukrai...

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

Not my words;

The Syrian Libyan/Iraq/Afghanistan/Somali war is above all, about the victory of the people of Syrian Libyan/Iraq/Afghanistan/Somali over ranks of external enemies.

Not about being a geopolitical plaything, or the favorite coffee-hour topic of ignorant internet armchair generals thousands of miles off.

Putin Obama / Bush / Cameron / Hollande of course thinks that he can win this for Asad Salman / Khalifa / Khalifa Al Thani / erdogan ; but for all his military support and his strategic intelligence (neither sadly matched among Western leaders at the moment), it isn't going to happen. If it were possible, it would already have happened.

He is going to learn a Lesson of history the hard way.
__________________________________

Phil

A quick correcting edit above.

I notice you did not answered my question about which "Moderate" Islamist group should be receiving military, Training and air support from the West, care to enlighten us?

[QuantumTokoloshi]

DMN said:

Wishfull thinking on your part.

Early reports are thats its an Orlan 10 UAV; made by Russia. I'm sure it was just on holiday.

http://www.aa.com.tr/tr/pg/foto-galeri/turk-hava-s...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlan-10

They've been using them for some time in Syria:
http://spioenkop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/from-ukrai...

Go and look at the published photos yourself, the engine and aerials and front shape is different on the shot down drone to the Orlan.

It is difficult to judge size from the photos.

[DMN]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

It is difficult to judge size from the photos.

Back tracking.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

DMN said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

It is difficult to judge size from the photos.

Back tracking.

Huh? Back tracking because I am been unable to see the size of the drone in a photo? Wow, tough crowd.

Please read it again.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 16th October 23:35

[QuantumTokoloshi]

The Don of Croy said:

Did anybody else see the report from Amnesty citing the Kurds for 'humanitarian crimes'?

According to AI the Kurds have been sweeping through the countryside to flush out ISIL/Daesh, clearing communities and then flattening the buildings so they cannot return, regardless of whether they are enemy or not. A kind of ethnic cleansing.

Probably not the first time it's happened.

This is a really complicated and thoroughly unpleasant bit of history unfolding. Lots of instances of unwarranted or over-zealous reactions to perceived threats, enabling future generations to be taught what utter bds their enemies are. And so it goes on.

Still, at least we get to prosecute some more Lockerbie bombers soon.

Agree completely.

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

That is not Russian military hardware or military hardware at all, looks to be more RC hobby aircraft than military drone. It maybe a homemade surveillance aircraft of some sort. The drone equivalent of the "hell cannon"

They may not have the range or features of a Predator but...

http://tinyurl.com/p3kft67

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

A quick correcting edit above.

I notice you did not answered my question about which "Moderate" Islamist group should be receiving military, Training and air support from the West, care to enlighten us?

Sorry, missed this.

Here's a few to consider, some groups noticeably large and covering wider areas of Syria than others but importantly made up predominantly by Syrians and not foreign.

Syriac Military Council - Al-Hasakah

Southern Front - Daraa

Free Syrian Army no longer has the control over as wide areas of Syria as it once did due to the influx of foreign & or radical Islamist groups however as an umbrella organisation it controls & coordinates many small Syrian opposition groups. Most if not all would be considered more moderate than radically Islamist based and are also made up of Syrian nationals a proportion of which were former SAA soldiers including officers.

The newly formed Liwa Thuwwar Raqqa, These are FSA battalions who have joined up with Kurdish militia (YPG) in Kobane to battle IS. Some of these FSA groups used to fight alongside Al-Nusra however they split away and joined more moderate Syrian opposition groups. This combined group together with the Kudish YPG now operates under the name of the Northern Revolutionary Alliance.

Sham Legion - Homs & Aleppo. Has an ideology of Islamic Democracy while the FSA follows that of secularism. Demographics of Syria prior to to this war was around 75% Sunni Arab with the remaining 25% made up of many minority religious groups from Assyrians, through Druze, Christian & Jew.

YPG & YPJ - Kurdish Nationalism / Liberal Democracy. Northeast & northwest of Syria.

All need to be vetted. The US has made recent mistakes in this department but no one's perfect.

The above is just a short list of both major & minor groups in answer to your question.

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

With Russia, Iran and Iran's proxy Hezbollah openly supporting and propping up the Assad regime here we have an Islamist group, made up predominantly of foreign fighters from Russia's North Caucasus (Chechnya to you and me) and formerly affiliated with IS but who have more recently taken on a hostile stance 'against' them. It has very recently pledged allegiance to the AQ offshoot Al-Nusra front.

Many within this group fought in the first Chechen war and the Georgian war against Russia so are far from bakers, butchers or candlestick makers. Members come from Russia, Ukraine, Crimea and other former Soviet Republics.

I hope they stole this TOW and were not in Obama's good boy list.

Here they are lighting up another Assad tank: https://youtu.be/kunxWTDOEUY

Uploaded yesterday from the Free Syrian Army's 1st Coastal Division (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Coastal_Division) who operate out of Lattakia & Idlib. Vetted by the Friends of Syria group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friends_of_Syria_Gro...https://youtu.be/SLVIEM8k8Zs

What a mess Syria has become and Putin thinks he'll make it better.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Saturday 17th October 09:37

[scherzkeks]

Transmitter Man said:

What a mess Syria has become and Putin thinks he'll make it better.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Saturday 17th October 09:37

Must be hard to walk the line you walk. Can't quite openly express support for ISIL, but can't support action against them either.

[Zod]

scherzkeks said:

Transmitter Man said:

What a mess Syria has become and Putin thinks he'll make it better.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Saturday 17th October 09:37

Must be hard to walk the line you walk. Can't quite openly express support for ISIL, but can't support action against them either.

That description fits Putin rather better than Transmitter Man.

[Transmitter Man]

Zod said:

That description fits Putin rather better than Transmitter Man.

You arrived before me Zod.

Thank you.

Phil

[AreOut]

Zod said:

That description fits Putin rather better than Transmitter Man.

Putin somehow hits ISIS facilities that US has somehow been missing for a year of continuous bombing, interesting at least.

[dudleybloke]

I've often wondered why we are not turning this......



Into this.....



We could do it 25yrs ago and we had less tech then.

[Cobnapint]

dudleybloke said:

We could do it 25yrs ago and we had less tech then.

That was against an easily identifiable army.

Today it's against a crowd of rag-heads that live amongst and look like most of the general populous.