Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Quite - the best action the 'moderates' could follow would be to contact Russia and hand the pilot over. Maybe in exchange for some weapons, maybe from the goodness of their heart.
To carry out any Isis style atrocity will lead them to be condemned as no better, and won't be poking the bear with a stick, it will be sticking dynamite up the bear's arse.
To carry out any Isis style atrocity will lead them to be condemned as no better, and won't be poking the bear with a stick, it will be sticking dynamite up the bear's arse.
drivin_me_nuts said:
Who knows where this is heading and just for a moment there I did wonder to myself if the fundamentalists planned this or even realise they have bitten into the flesh of something that turned on them in a way they were not expecting.
If planned it could be a very shrewd bit of strategy. Given there's already tension between Russia and the west, and that was starting to thaw over IS, what better way than to provoke Russia into some sort of retaliation against Turkey? Turkey can then scream NATO must defend it, and the west is faced with either doing the dirty work of IS in pushing Russia back from Syria, or doing nothing and the pact failing and Turkey showing the Arab world how the wicked west cares nothing for Muslims.
If the Turkmens have him I'm sure Erdogan will instruct them to hand the pilot back.
this just in on the wire;
"The plane reportedly fell in Yamadi village near the town of Bayirbucak in Latakia Province in northwest Syria. The area, largely populated by Turkmens, has been under attack by the Syrian military with cover from Russian airstrikes.
Last week, Turkey warned of a military response if the assaults on the Turkmens did not cease.
The office of Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said that he has spoken with Chief of Staff Hulusi Akar and Foreign Minister Feridun Sinirlioğlu about the incident, and that he will consult with NATO and the UN about the developments."
Phil
this just in on the wire;
"The plane reportedly fell in Yamadi village near the town of Bayirbucak in Latakia Province in northwest Syria. The area, largely populated by Turkmens, has been under attack by the Syrian military with cover from Russian airstrikes.
Last week, Turkey warned of a military response if the assaults on the Turkmens did not cease.
The office of Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said that he has spoken with Chief of Staff Hulusi Akar and Foreign Minister Feridun Sinirlioğlu about the incident, and that he will consult with NATO and the UN about the developments."
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Hopefully more than a few ordinary Russians will scratch their heads over this event & ask themselves "WTF are our planes doing flying over *Syria* anyway !?"
Ordinary Russians have absolutely no leverage or voice over what their Government get up too. Personally I think the Russians are capable of doing a very useful job in Syria, but they are not straightforward allies, and clearly they are playing there own agenda.
You can wish for easy allies, but it won't happen in this "coalition"
Interestingly I learnt this morning that Saudi jets haven't flown a mission from three months
Puggit said:
Quite - the best action the 'moderates' could follow would be to contact Russia and hand the pilot over.
Makes I larf all thing continual referral to 'moderates'...... there's no such thing!Of course, the dumb western polititians keep trotting out the same old s
t to try and justify the fact that they keep making the same mistake over and over again......
But again, behind the scenes right now there is a complete scramble of phone calls, meetings, discussions and responses at all levels of the political tree. They will stand and pose posture politics - they have to, but behind the scenes there will be an entirely different set of dialogues. Turkey has it's own agenda and one that eyes the situation next door both in fear and also as the potential to up it's political influence in the region.
After all,, the ultimate aim of many there is to join the European 'family'.
My gut feeling is that already the dialogues between Turkey and Russia is being moderated by others.
It's how the pilot's circumstances now that will determine much more. In fact, the actions of both nations have played into the hands of the terrorists perfectly.
There is no greater PR they could ever want (bar a US, FR or GB pilot), than to have a captive to do things to. He is the terrorist's perfect day come true. All eyes on them. The one thing that would be worse, would be a failed rescue mission.....
After all,, the ultimate aim of many there is to join the European 'family'.
My gut feeling is that already the dialogues between Turkey and Russia is being moderated by others.
It's how the pilot's circumstances now that will determine much more. In fact, the actions of both nations have played into the hands of the terrorists perfectly.
There is no greater PR they could ever want (bar a US, FR or GB pilot), than to have a captive to do things to. He is the terrorist's perfect day come true. All eyes on them. The one thing that would be worse, would be a failed rescue mission.....
I don't get any of this any more. It reminds me of that scene in the Life of Brian:
We're the Judean Peoples Front, we're the Peoples Front of Judea etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
To continue the analogy the 'Romans' must be NATO, Russia, China and anyone else that is queuing up to drop bombs on ISIS.
As far as I can tell, all of these 'insurgent groups' are the bad guys, but no-one can really tell who is worse than the other. Our Government included.
Seems that what has changed is that these people are now able to get AK47s into places that they couldn't previously. That is the scary part.
We're the Judean Peoples Front, we're the Peoples Front of Judea etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
To continue the analogy the 'Romans' must be NATO, Russia, China and anyone else that is queuing up to drop bombs on ISIS.
As far as I can tell, all of these 'insurgent groups' are the bad guys, but no-one can really tell who is worse than the other. Our Government included.
Seems that what has changed is that these people are now able to get AK47s into places that they couldn't previously. That is the scary part.
drivin_me_nuts said:
It's how the pilot's circumstances now that will determine much more. In fact, the actions of both nations have played into the hands of the terrorists perfectly.
There is no greater PR they could ever want (bar a US, FR or GB pilot), than to have a captive to do things to. He is the terrorist's perfect day come true. All eyes on them. The one thing that would be worse, would be a failed rescue mission.....
Reports are that both crew now dead....There is no greater PR they could ever want (bar a US, FR or GB pilot), than to have a captive to do things to. He is the terrorist's perfect day come true. All eyes on them. The one thing that would be worse, would be a failed rescue mission.....
Interesting comment from Putin:
[quote]The pilots were part of an operation against Isil in the mountainous areas of north Latakia, where there is a concentration of militants from the Russian Federation. That is, they were fulfilling their direct duty of preventing attacks by those who might return to Russia. And people who do that should be qualified as international terrorists.
[/quote]
At least it explains why Russia is going after non-ISIS groups, he's going after the jihadis who have Russian backgrounds. Again, clever Putin - after all the UK has done the same thing (at a much smaller level!)
[quote]The pilots were part of an operation against Isil in the mountainous areas of north Latakia, where there is a concentration of militants from the Russian Federation. That is, they were fulfilling their direct duty of preventing attacks by those who might return to Russia. And people who do that should be qualified as international terrorists.
[/quote]
At least it explains why Russia is going after non-ISIS groups, he's going after the jihadis who have Russian backgrounds. Again, clever Putin - after all the UK has done the same thing (at a much smaller level!)
Puggit said:
At least it explains why Russia is going after non-ISIS groups, he's going after the jihadis who have Russian backgrounds. Again, clever Putin - after all the UK has done the same thing (at a much smaller level!)
...and the alternative;To Putin anyone fighting Assad is a terrorist, that is he long bow logic he uses to say Turkey supports terrorists.
Turkmen have lived in Syria for centuries and lead a peaceful existence in their region. It is Russia who has broken international law by targeting civilians.
There are several cities and villages in Syria with significant Turkmen
communities. The Turkish Encyclopedia claims there are 523 Turkmen
villages in Syria. The main areas of Turkmen concentration are the regions straddling the Turkish border, particularly in the Aleppo and Latakia Governorates. The cities of Aleppo, Manbij, al-Bab, Jarabulus, Azaz, Qatma all have significant Turkmen populations, largely descendants of the Barak tribes, which also dominate the Turkish areas of Killis, Antep and Urfa. In the Latakia Governorate, the border regions of Ras al-Bassit and Bayir (Baer) are predominantly populated by Turkmens.
Phil
aeropilot said:
Puggit said:
Quite - the best action the 'moderates' could follow would be to contact Russia and hand the pilot over.
Makes I larf all thing continual referral to 'moderates'...... there's no such thing!Of course, the dumb western polititians keep trotting out the same old s
t to try and justify the fact that they keep making the same mistake over and over again......There seems more peace and moderate groups in Syria, than a Zen garden Woodstock concert on weed.
Those moderate Islamist Turkmen groups, that fight alongside, and support Al Qaeda / Al Nusra.
Just moderates being moderate, in fact their flag is beige, and a war cry of "Allah U moderate"
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 24th November 14:30
Transmitter Man said:
Correct, and nothings changed, not even an ex-Russian airliner downed in Egypt bar the last weeks token gesture hits against IS by Putin. He is still hitting areas across Syria where only more moderate opposition forces are located.
Everyone is saying this both the west and the moderate opposition groups.
Phil
Soooo, the people getting bombed are saying they're moderates? Should we believe them?Everyone is saying this both the west and the moderate opposition groups.
Phil
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