Meanwhile, In Syria

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Cobnapint said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Cobnapint said:

Transmitter Man said:

I think the civilians fled because they rightly feared a carpet bombing attack from the russians. That's exactly what Putin did. The Assad army will take over a wasteland. Still it puts them nearer to Raqqa and to Deir Azzor which is where Putin wants to be, overlooking the Euphrates Valley.

The Russian air-force's inability to precision bomb is becoming more obvious as this campaign proceeds

Putin has withdrawn his military. How could you possibly suggest that he's carpet bombed with unguided munitions.

Outrageous, hey QT...?

You were complaining when "ISIS" was not the primary target, now they are being targeted and being pushed back, that is wrong too.

Putin has not withdrawn his entire military, he still has the naval and airbase, but lets not let facts in the way here.

I'm all for ISIS being pushed back - it's Putin's claims that he hasn't killed any civilians and his military withdrawal claims that's the issue.

You can't exactly go wrong in killing the enemy if you carpet/cluster bomb whole towns can you? You don't have to be some kind of great military strategist (like you seem to think he is) if you just walk in and bomb everything in sight. You can't fking miss!

Conversely, British and US drone strikes are regularly called off in different theatres if there's any hint of civilian casualties. I'm not saying some don't get caught, but at least the rules are there.

Interesting how you admit that Putin is a lying when you say ISIS initially wasn't the primary target. Putin said it was.

Putin also said he'd withdrawn his military. He hasn't, just like he didn't on numerous occasions in E Ukraine. Lying again.

You've either withdrawn your military, or you haven't. And he hasn't. But like you say, lets not let facts in the way here...

From the Huff Post....

As one Russian military journalist told Radio Free Europe, “The fleet remains; antiaircraft systems remain; the tanks remain; all the marines remain; the helicopters remain; some of the aircraft will remain. Only some of the aircraft and their service personnel are being taken out. And they can come back, of course, in the space of three or four hours.”

He said he would withdrawal the additional troops and aircraft, he did not say he would withdraw all troops and assets. He was not going to leave Syria completely, only a fool would assume that.

It is prudent to let from a Russian point of view, to ensure, that unstable players in the region, like Turkey and Co. Are aware that he can reinforce quickly, considering their actions to date. Would you do anything else ? Putin sets the rules in Syria now, like it or not.

I am sure, the hospitals, wedding parties, villages and cities that were destroyed, are so impressed the air strikes were called off, please explain how declaring a city (Fallujah) a free fire zone is showing such admirable restraint? Iraq is sooooo much better now than before the invasion, that ISIS grew from the mess in the Fallujah area. Iran has been handed regional power on a platter, due to the idiotic US and UK actions.

Again, you seem surprised and angry Putin lies, like Cameron lies, like Obama lies, like Erdogan lies, like Hollande lies, like Merkel lies etc. You really need to get over it, it is irrational. WMD anyone ? Chemical weapons anyone ? Benghazi massacre anyone ?

You are angry that Putin is now the power broker in Syria, you are angry Putin has managed to do what the West said they were doing but could or would not.

You are angry that Putin has been painted as a warmonger, but has brought peace to Syria, and is now tackling ISIS successfully.

You are angry that our own leaders are so inept, they are incapable of dealing with an equal, who plays by their own rules. You should be angry at Cameron, Juncker, Obama, Merkel and Hollande.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 28th March 15:35

[Transmitter Man]

irocfan said:

oh dear LORD the Huff? You may as well read Pravda or Socialist Worker and claim to get unbiased reporting! That being said there is a good reason that a lot of these men and materials remain - Russia have a honking big naval base in Syria which is not a recent development

Iroc,

Tartus is most definitely not a honking big naval base.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4_JiPbf72O0/VfUDh6LQw3I/...

It never has been a naval base.

However, it's Russia's only warm water port in the Med to tank up and carry out maintainence.

They were kicked out of all their other naval bases in the area or lease ran out.

I don't know if there's any truth in the story that Syria's offshore oil/gas exploration rights were signed over to Putin in exchange for weapons during the conflict.

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

irocfan said:

oh dear LORD the Huff? You may as well read Pravda or Socialist Worker and claim to get unbiased reporting! That being said there is a good reason that a lot of these men and materials remain - Russia have a honking big naval base in Syria which is not a recent development

I don't know if there's any truth in the story that Syria's offshore oil/gas exploration rights were signed over to Putin in exchange for weapons during the conflict.

Phil

I would not doubt that, Assad was on his knees, pretty much had to raid the bank and the back of the Sofa. Exactly the same thing that Churchill had to do during the second world war, gold, technology the whole lot, went to the USA.

[Mr GrimNasty]

Are IS being pushed back? More like regrouping somewhere else.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Are IS being pushed back? More like regrouping somewhere else.

The Russian attacks on their oil infrastructure has hurt them, No money, no fighters. They are not out but certainly not on the offensive any more. It is also more difficult for the other "allies" to supply them with materiel, now that the Russians run the airspace, no more air drops to "moderates" or supply columns from Turkey in exchange for oil.

The Iraqis also seem to be making ground from the east.

[Cobnapint]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

You are angry that our own leaders are so inept, they are incapable of dealing with an equal, who plays by their own rules. You should be angry at Cameron, Juncker, Obama, Merkel and Hollande.

The West has little things called democratic process to deal with, IE...Congress and the House of Commons.

Putin isn't troubled by such things. He comes up with an idea, EVERYBODY around him says how good it is, and he does it. There is nobody to answer to, no other nations or agreements to worry about, he just does it. And because it's so quick, a lot of people think 'what a great leader, what a great strategist that man is.'

The reality is, he was there to save Assad's ass. Nothing else.

The West wanted to kick Assad's ass, and set about supporting what was initially a pro-democracy uprising within the Syrian populous against their murderous regime, because that's what we do. ISIS ruined that one.

But we were never going to conduct a full invasion, and to praise Putin as some great decision maker for carrying out something he was invited in to do, while criticising us for not doing something we weren't, is a bit rich.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Cobnapint said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

You are angry that our own leaders are so inept, they are incapable of dealing with an equal, who plays by their own rules. You should be angry at Cameron, Juncker, Obama, Merkel and Hollande.

The West has little things called democratic process to deal with, IE...Congress and the House of Commons.

Putin isn't troubled by such things. He comes up with an idea, EVERYBODY around him says how good it is, and he does it. There is nobody to answer to, no other nations or agreements to worry about, he just does it. And because it's so quick, a lot of people think 'what a great leader, what a great strategist that man is.'

The reality is, he was there to save Assad's ass. Nothing else.

The West wanted to kick Assad's ass, and set about supporting what was initially a pro-democracy uprising within the Syrian populous against their murderous regime, because that's what we do. ISIS ruined that one.

But we were never going to conduct a full invasion, and to praise Putin as some great decision maker for carrying out something he was invited in to do, while criticising us for not doing something we weren't, is a bit rich.

That is what we do? Like the great freedom and democracy exercise in Iraq? Like the great freedom and democracy exercise in Libya, like that great freedom and democracy exercise in Afghanistan? If that is success, I would hate to see failure.

Using chemical weapons as an excuse to overthrow the legitimate government of Syria, sound familiar?

If we are such morally pure devotees of democracy, because that is what we do, then please explain Saudi, Qatar or Bahrain?

We are happy to support and supply autocratic, theocratic, despotic regimes, who shoot, imprison and behead pro-democracy protesters, regimes with direct connections to psychotic Islamic fundamentalists.

We do it when it suits us, much like Putin. It suited him and Russian interests. He has succeeded where UK, US and European policy has failed, that is the truth of it, like it or not.

We have handed Russia and Iran the central power broker position in the middle east, due to a poor strategy and execution over the last 14 years and the great game continues.

Is this what we do?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-28/full-meta...

You do know team America was satire right?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 29th March 09:17

[irocfan]

Transmitter Man said:

irocfan said:

oh dear LORD the Huff? You may as well read Pravda or Socialist Worker and claim to get unbiased reporting! That being said there is a good reason that a lot of these men and materials remain - Russia have a honking big naval base in Syria which is not a recent development

Iroc,

Tartus is most definitely not a honking big naval base.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4_JiPbf72O0/VfUDh6LQw3I/...

It never has been a naval base.

However, it's Russia's only warm water port in the Med to tank up and carry out maintainence.

They were kicked out of all their other naval bases in the area or lease ran out.

I don't know if there's any truth in the story that Syria's offshore oil/gas exploration rights were signed over to Putin in exchange for weapons during the conflict.

Phil

thanks for that Phil - I stand corrected on the size issue (I'll still maintain that the huff is the digital equivalent of the Daily Star though )

[ukaskew]

Interesting article on Foxtrot Alpha, the US alone have dropped 40,000 weapons against ISIS, at a total unit cost of $1.5b. Or to put it another way, nearly $50k per ISIS fighter at the highest possible estimate of ISIS numbers. That's just the cost of the weapons themselves, not the delivery (a B-1 is $60k per flight hour). Apparently weapon stocks are running low and production is having to be upped.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/u-s-allies-borrow...

[QuantumTokoloshi]

ukaskew said:

Interesting article on Foxtrot Alpha, the US alone have dropped 40,000 weapons against ISIS, at a total unit cost of $1.5b. Or to put it another way, nearly $50k per ISIS fighter at the highest possible estimate of ISIS numbers. That's just the cost of the weapons themselves, not the delivery (a B-1 is $60k per flight hour). Apparently weapon stocks are running low and production is having to be upped.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/u-s-allies-borrow...

Poor value for money, all those high-tech precision guided weapons we have been told about on this thread, seemingly incapable of actually hitting ISIS targets, especially those large, distinctive, unmoving, but very hard to find by NATO military, oil holding tanks and multi-kilometre long snaking lines of tanker trucks, cunningly disguised as tanker trucks, heading towards the Turkish border from ISIS territory.

Perhaps they should have asked for Russian assistance in mission planning, they seem better able to identify the real terrorists.

/sarcasm.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 30th March 09:18

[scherzkeks]

ukaskew said:

Interesting article on Foxtrot Alpha, the US alone have dropped 40,000 weapons against ISIS, at a total unit cost of $1.5b. Or to put it another way, nearly $50k per ISIS fighter at the highest possible estimate of ISIS numbers. That's just the cost of the weapons themselves, not the delivery (a B-1 is $60k per flight hour). Apparently weapon stocks are running low and production is having to be upped.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/u-s-allies-borrow...

Par for the course. Keep the armaments industry busy and pretend you are fighting the guys who are fighting the guys who you actually want out of power. And on and on.

[BlackLabel]

Oh dear.

In Syria, militias armed by the Pentagon fight those armed by the CIA

latimes said:

Syrian militias armed by different parts of the U.S. war machine have begun to fight each other on the plains between the besieged city of Aleppo and the Turkish border, highlighting how little control U.S. intelligence officers and military planners have over the groups they have financed and trained in the bitter five-year-old civil war.

The fighting has intensified over the last two months, as CIA-armed units and Pentagon-armed ones have repeatedly shot at each other while maneuvering through contested territory on the northern outskirts of Aleppo, U.S. officials and rebel leaders have confirmed.

[dudleybloke]

http://www.janes.com/article/59182/iskander-missil...

[QuantumTokoloshi]

dudleybloke said:

http://www.janes.com/article/59182/iskander-missil...

Syrian military equipped with Iskander missiles, so well known. If sporting the canned sunshine warhead, different story. Quite a high-tech weapon, able to target moving targets autonomously and change target in flight, much more than just a ballistic SCUD type missile.

It is probably adaptable to target aircraft carriers and large ships, not something you want hunting your carriers.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 1st April 17:47

[irocfan]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

dudleybloke said:

http://www.janes.com/article/59182/iskander-missil...

Syrian military equipped with Iskander missiles, so well known. If sporting the canned sunshine warhead, different story.

that's not a happy thought for that region

[QuantumTokoloshi]

irocfan said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

dudleybloke said:

http://www.janes.com/article/59182/iskander-missil...

Syrian military equipped with Iskander missiles, so well known. If sporting the canned sunshine warhead, different story.

that's not a happy thought for that region

If it is the Syrian military one, then it is an export variant, so shorter range and no glow in the dark option. If the Russian variant, then either conventional or the big party popper.

It is no different to cruise missiles, being conventional or nuclear, only much faster with a bigger warhead.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

I am sure this is going to make a HUGE difference. I wonder if they will be able to even find ISIS.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0WY5TA

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Russian aircraft targeting ISIS vehicles, and I see that Al Nusra / AL qaeda are now, no longer moderate, according to the BBC and Channel 4. What did they do wrong ?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-07/caught-ta...

[scherzkeks]

Amusing post over at Club Orlov from last week. Old hat to some, but a good read.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.de/2016/03/always-attack...

[QuantumTokoloshi]

scherzkeks said:

Amusing post over at Club Orlov from last week. Old hat to some, but a good read.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.de/2016/03/always-attack...

A good read but our resident Neo-cons, "make them evil pinko commie Russkies pay" types will not see anything wrong in the world situation in the last 15 years.