Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
What really makes me so fed up. is that they claim to be practising the purest forms of the religion, as the prophet practised it.
No TV, Strict clothing , beards and all the rest.
So why have they got guns, and Toyota trucks and use social media? Why not use horses and swords and the loud horn?
Again chooses where it suits them.
No TV, Strict clothing , beards and all the rest.
So why have they got guns, and Toyota trucks and use social media? Why not use horses and swords and the loud horn?
Again chooses where it suits them.
recycled said:
What really makes me so fed up. is that they claim to be practising the purest forms of the religion, as the prophet practised it.
No TV, Strict clothing , beards and all the rest.
So why have they got guns, and Toyota trucks and use social media? Why not use horses and swords and the loud horn?
Again chooses where it suits them.
Which supports that it's not really a religious war, they're just hiding behind religion and getting tomdoma load of psychos stuff as a result. Call of Duty for real. No TV, Strict clothing , beards and all the rest.
So why have they got guns, and Toyota trucks and use social media? Why not use horses and swords and the loud horn?
Again chooses where it suits them.
Avinalarf
I wasn't really comparing Islam with Christianity in terms of it's ability to generate sectarian divides and let a bunch of idiots kill each other over them. Both are supremely eminently of that.
Davepoth
I think he did. The general rule was keep expanding the domain and the influence of Islam.
Recycled
As I understand it that's part of a general prohibition on enjoyment on the Calvinist model rather than an Amish-like aversion to new technology in general. New ways of killing people are allowed under strict Islam. Although you can retain the old ways (stoning, beheading etc) as well if you like.
I wasn't really comparing Islam with Christianity in terms of it's ability to generate sectarian divides and let a bunch of idiots kill each other over them. Both are supremely eminently of that.
Davepoth
I think he did. The general rule was keep expanding the domain and the influence of Islam.
Recycled
As I understand it that's part of a general prohibition on enjoyment on the Calvinist model rather than an Amish-like aversion to new technology in general. New ways of killing people are allowed under strict Islam. Although you can retain the old ways (stoning, beheading etc) as well if you like.
recycled said:
What really makes me so fed up. is that they claim to be practising the purest forms of the religion, as the prophet practised it.
No TV, Strict clothing , beards and all the rest.
So why have they got guns, and Toyota trucks and use social media? Why not use horses and swords and the loud horn?
Again chooses where it suits them.
No TV.....?No TV, Strict clothing , beards and all the rest.
So why have they got guns, and Toyota trucks and use social media? Why not use horses and swords and the loud horn?
Again chooses where it suits them.
Mental picture of Mohammed watching Big Brother.....no wonder he banned TV.
Not a point just an observation.
A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Not a point just an observation.
A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
Lets not forget, the modern state of Israel did not exist before 1948 and the CIA was created during WW2.A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
The middle east has been blowing itself to bits for far, far longer than that.
skyrover said:
Transmitter Man said:
Not a point just an observation.
A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
Lets not forget, the modern state of Israel did not exist before 1948 and the CIA was created during WW2.A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
The middle east has been blowing itself to bits for far, far longer than that.
Edited by irocfan on Sunday 31st July 14:28
Transmitter Man said:
Not a point just an observation.
A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
I am tired of hearing all these garbage. Is this not the same excuse African states give, that it is the West and CIA messing up their countries.A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
Yes they may have a bit part to play, in supplying weapons or bribes or some mercenaries, but at the end of the day, it is the MEerners and Africans that are doing the buying of weapons, shooting, and bombing of their country.
if they just snubbed the CIA and israel, and went to school and built industries instead of bomb factories and worked harder instead of quoting religious scholars, then they would be in a much better place.
recycled said:
Transmitter Man said:
Not a point just an observation.
A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
I am tired of hearing all these garbage. Is this not the same excuse African states give, that it is the West and CIA messing up their countries.A colleague here at work today suggested all the ME uprisings and conflicts are the work of the CIA and Israel.
I asked, and I'm asking here how did the CIA get the fruit & veg seller in Tunisia to set fire to himself, the kids/students in Deraa, Syria to spray anti regime graffiti on the school wall in March 2011 and instigate the persecution of both Kurds & Sufi Muslims in Iran etc etc.
The fact that external players may have got involved since the above started (maybe not the latter) is not the question,
Can someone convince me others are not involved or as guilty as the great Satan's the US and Israel. I'm thinking Putin for one is not a pussycat.
Phil
Yes they may have a bit part to play, in supplying weapons or bribes or some mercenaries, but at the end of the day, it is the MEerners and Africans that are doing the buying of weapons, shooting, and bombing of their country.
if they just snubbed the CIA and israel, and went to school and built industries instead of bomb factories and worked harder instead of quoting religious scholars, then they would be in a much better place.
The global powers,USA,Russia,China have spheres of influence and are competing In many countries Worldwide for various reasons....an energy resource....trade....minerals...etc,etc.
They try when possible to have a pliable,sympathetic leader and government of those countries in place.
Or when not successful they try to destabilise that leader or government.
Many of these countries the leaders and government is corrupt and take huge bribes fromand give contracts to Global Corporations,whilst the majority of the country is s
t poor.You can see what happened recently in Turkey,a country far more advanced than most others in that area.
So when you have the mix of dictators,corruption,religious nutters,peasants,foreign intervention,multi national corps. all stirring it up.....it ain't gonna end well.
avinalarf said:
There is a smidgen of truth in what you say but unfortunately things ain't that simple.
The global powers,USA,Russia,China have spheres of influence and are competing In many countries Worldwide for various reasons....an energy resource....trade....minerals...etc,etc.
They try when possible to have a pliable,sympathetic leader and government of those countries in place.
Or when not successful they try to destabilise that leader or government.
Many of these countries the leaders and government is corrupt and take huge bribes fromand give contracts to Global Corporations,whilst the majority of the country is st poor.
You can see what happened recently in Turkey,a country far more advanced than most others in that area.
So when you have the mix of dictators,corruption,religious nutters,peasants,foreign intervention,multi national corps. all stirring it up.....it ain't gonna end well.
I understand what you are saying, but why is it so easily done in the other states?The global powers,USA,Russia,China have spheres of influence and are competing In many countries Worldwide for various reasons....an energy resource....trade....minerals...etc,etc.
They try when possible to have a pliable,sympathetic leader and government of those countries in place.
Or when not successful they try to destabilise that leader or government.
Many of these countries the leaders and government is corrupt and take huge bribes fromand give contracts to Global Corporations,whilst the majority of the country is s
t poor.You can see what happened recently in Turkey,a country far more advanced than most others in that area.
So when you have the mix of dictators,corruption,religious nutters,peasants,foreign intervention,multi national corps. all stirring it up.....it ain't gonna end well.
Did Gaddafi not try to destabilise the peace process in NI. Did not get him very far did it? Why is it so easy to convince a third world country to overthrow and destroy itself and they just agree and fall for it?
Vietnam did not fold over and comply, neither did China so why do all the other just disintegrate into chaos?
recycled said:
avinalarf said:
There is a smidgen of truth in what you say but unfortunately things ain't that simple.
The global powers,USA,Russia,China have spheres of influence and are competing In many countries Worldwide for various reasons....an energy resource....trade....minerals...etc,etc.
They try when possible to have a pliable,sympathetic leader and government of those countries in place.
Or when not successful they try to destabilise that leader or government.
Many of these countries the leaders and government is corrupt and take huge bribes fromand give contracts to Global Corporations,whilst the majority of the country is st poor.
You can see what happened recently in Turkey,a country far more advanced than most others in that area.
So when you have the mix of dictators,corruption,religious nutters,peasants,foreign intervention,multi national corps. all stirring it up.....it ain't gonna end well.
I understand what you are saying, but why is it so easily done in the other states?The global powers,USA,Russia,China have spheres of influence and are competing In many countries Worldwide for various reasons....an energy resource....trade....minerals...etc,etc.
They try when possible to have a pliable,sympathetic leader and government of those countries in place.
Or when not successful they try to destabilise that leader or government.
Many of these countries the leaders and government is corrupt and take huge bribes fromand give contracts to Global Corporations,whilst the majority of the country is s
t poor.You can see what happened recently in Turkey,a country far more advanced than most others in that area.
So when you have the mix of dictators,corruption,religious nutters,peasants,foreign intervention,multi national corps. all stirring it up.....it ain't gonna end well.
Did Gaddafi not try to destabilise the peace process in NI. Did not get him very far did it? Why is it so easy to convince a third world country to overthrow and destroy itself and they just agree and fall for it?
Vietnam did not fold over and comply, neither did China so why do all the other just disintegrate into chaos?
Every now and again one of these dictators,for the most part puppets of a Global Power gets ahead of himself,delusions of grandeur,if he gets to troublesome they get rid if him s.a.p.
Another big player are the various Mafias around the World,extremely wealthy,powerful and violent.
Think....Italy,Albania,Mexico,Russia etc.
Thing is.....the large majority of the population are very poor.....living in non or pseudo democracies if not dictatorships...what can they do.
We in the West have a relatively hard time getting our voices heard,so what chance have they got.
If you were a peasant farmer in Afghanistan barely scratching a living and you could make 10 times more growing Opium....what would you do.
Vietnam was a different scenario.
Throughout the 3rd World you have insurgent,usually Communist styled organisations,religious fundamentalists,right wing facists,backed either by Russia,China or some Mafia type fraternity.
They portray themselves as Robin Hood types,although in truth they are often a mixture of the good ,the bad and the ugly.
Vietnam like Cuba was one of the few places where a popular people's backed movement ,bankrolled by Russia,was able to oppose the USA.
avinalarf said:
Gaddafi was a bit player,a chancer that was trying his luck.
Every now and again one of these dictators,for the most part puppets of a Global Power gets ahead of himself,delusions of grandeur,if he gets to troublesome they get rid if him s.a.p.
Another big player are the various Mafias around the World,extremely wealthy,powerful and violent.
Think....Italy,Albania,Mexico,Russia etc.
Thing is.....the large majority of the population are very poor.....living in non or pseudo democracies if not dictatorships...what can they do.
We in the West have a relatively hard time getting our voices heard,so what chance have they got.
If you were a peasant farmer in Afghanistan barely scratching a living and you could make 10 times more growing Opium....what would you do.
Vietnam was a different scenario.
Throughout the 3rd World you have insurgent,usually Communist styled organisations,religious fundamentalists,right wing facists,backed either by Russia,China or some Mafia type fraternity.
They portray themselves as Robin Hood types,although in truth they are often a mixture of the good ,the bad and the ugly.
Vietnam like Cuba was one of the few places where a popular people's backed movement ,bankrolled by Russia,was able to oppose the USA.
At his rate the whole world is just imploding. I hope i would not be around when it starts.Every now and again one of these dictators,for the most part puppets of a Global Power gets ahead of himself,delusions of grandeur,if he gets to troublesome they get rid if him s.a.p.
Another big player are the various Mafias around the World,extremely wealthy,powerful and violent.
Think....Italy,Albania,Mexico,Russia etc.
Thing is.....the large majority of the population are very poor.....living in non or pseudo democracies if not dictatorships...what can they do.
We in the West have a relatively hard time getting our voices heard,so what chance have they got.
If you were a peasant farmer in Afghanistan barely scratching a living and you could make 10 times more growing Opium....what would you do.
Vietnam was a different scenario.
Throughout the 3rd World you have insurgent,usually Communist styled organisations,religious fundamentalists,right wing facists,backed either by Russia,China or some Mafia type fraternity.
They portray themselves as Robin Hood types,although in truth they are often a mixture of the good ,the bad and the ugly.
Vietnam like Cuba was one of the few places where a popular people's backed movement ,bankrolled by Russia,was able to oppose the USA.
Aleppo update, amazing how many well armed "moderate" groups there are in Syria.
http://thesaker.is/syrian-war-report-august-1-2016...
http://thesaker.is/syrian-war-report-august-1-2016...
Morning all. BBC reporting:
Big breaking news story with regards the good news coming from Manbij:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...
Much smaller and tucked away in a corner of the website is a story dealing with the small matter of the siege on E Aleppo being as good as lifted and replaced with a siege on W Aleppo. Heavy emphasis on Damascus denying it and rebel casualties:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...
Methinks the pro-Assad content editors are not in a good mood this morning....
Big breaking news story with regards the good news coming from Manbij:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...
Much smaller and tucked away in a corner of the website is a story dealing with the small matter of the siege on E Aleppo being as good as lifted and replaced with a siege on W Aleppo. Heavy emphasis on Damascus denying it and rebel casualties:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/worl...
Methinks the pro-Assad content editors are not in a good mood this morning....
Idlib 2015 was a turning point for #Syria in several ways. #Aleppo will be too. Last week regime/Iran/Russia were winning. Already history.
Shame the main front to break the Aleppo siege was made up of mainly Nusra fighters but at least aid can now get it instead of being hindered by Assad bureaucracy or blown up by their or Russian aircraft.
The Assad regime did themselves assist AQ in killing US (and UK and many more for that matter) personnel by assisting and encouraging them into Iraq. They were never friends with AQ central but they did help in the genesis of both ISIS and Nusra. More recently plenty of the decisions that the Assad regime has taken have encouraged, sometimes deliberately, the terror threat around the world.
Phil
Shame the main front to break the Aleppo siege was made up of mainly Nusra fighters but at least aid can now get it instead of being hindered by Assad bureaucracy or blown up by their or Russian aircraft.
The Assad regime did themselves assist AQ in killing US (and UK and many more for that matter) personnel by assisting and encouraging them into Iraq. They were never friends with AQ central but they did help in the genesis of both ISIS and Nusra. More recently plenty of the decisions that the Assad regime has taken have encouraged, sometimes deliberately, the terror threat around the world.
Phil
Edited by Transmitter Man on Sunday 7th August 09:05
The Russians really have turned this war on its head as Assad's forces continue to take back more rebel held territory.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/t...
If someone had said a few years ago that Assad would still be in his job long after Cameron, Obama, Hollande etc had left office you'd think this was mad but it looks like we're headed for such a situation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/t...
If someone had said a few years ago that Assad would still be in his job long after Cameron, Obama, Hollande etc had left office you'd think this was mad but it looks like we're headed for such a situation.
Meanwhile.....
"Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.
U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013. Investigators also blamed the Islamic State terrorist group in an incident involving mustard gas."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/syria-assad-...
I wonder how a POTUS Clinton will handle this - I imagine she will be a bit more proactive than the current President. Whether that's the correct road to go down is another matter.
"Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.
U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013. Investigators also blamed the Islamic State terrorist group in an incident involving mustard gas."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/syria-assad-...
I wonder how a POTUS Clinton will handle this - I imagine she will be a bit more proactive than the current President. Whether that's the correct road to go down is another matter.
BlackLabel said:
Meanwhile.....
"Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.
U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013. Investigators also blamed the Islamic State terrorist group in an incident involving mustard gas."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/syria-assad-...
I wonder how a POTUS Clinton will handle this - I imagine she will be a bit more proactive than the current President. Whether that's the correct road to go down is another matter.
One small issue there, specifically around the " us officials confirmed" bit."Even after he supposedly turned over his entire stockpile of chemical weapons three years ago, Bashar Assad is still crossing Barack Obama's "red line," a U.N. investigation has found.
U.S. officials confirmed Wednesday that the probe had determined that the Syrian president and his regime were responsible for at least two cases of the deadly use of chlorine in the Arab country's civil war since 2013. Investigators also blamed the Islamic State terrorist group in an incident involving mustard gas."
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/syria-assad-...
I wonder how a POTUS Clinton will handle this - I imagine she will be a bit more proactive than the current President. Whether that's the correct road to go down is another matter.
Were these the same officials that confirmed the existence of Iraqi WMDs? Let us hope not.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff