Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Liokault said:
All of your straw men don’t equate to the repeated, wilful targeting of hospitals and carpet bombing of civilian areas.
Straw men? Did the assault on Fallujah not happen in your world ? Was it not a free fire zone, including civilians, for artillery and aircraft ?Is the CIA drone program not active in the border region of Pakistan in your world ?
Just three days ago. Those straw men are pretty deadly. I bet the dead are so happy it is not official policy, Phew !
http://www.commondreams.org/news/2016/09/30/un-con...
You seem to misunderstand the difference between fact and straw men.
Here is another Pro Russian / Syrian propagandist at work, oh wait, he is a US Republican Senator, seems to have a whole load of "straw men" arguments too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfyDgDTu0Go&fe...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 12:37
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Liokault said:
All of your straw men don’t equate to the repeated, wilful targeting of hospitals and carpet bombing of civilian areas.
Straw men? Did the assault on Fallujah not happen in your world ? Was it not a free fire zone, including civilians, for artillery and aircraft ?Is the CIA drone program not active in the border region of Pakistan in your world ?
You seem to misunderstand the difference between fact and Straw men.
Here is another Pro Russian / Syrian propagandist at work, oh wait, he is US Republican Senator, seems to have a whole load of "straw men" arguments too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfyDgDTu0Go&fe...
Also, I'm not really following your basic argument. You seem be making the case that because something bad happened in the past, a free pass is given to do other unconnected bad stuff today? Am I miss-understanding this?
QuantumTokoloshi said:
and yet the belief in the western media unbiased truth persists.
It always dismays and amazes me that most people are too dumb or too asleep to understand this.As ever QT you expose what is happening with irrefutable clarity.
Let the mantra continue, West squeaky clean, all the Rest savages.
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Liokault said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Liokault said:
All of your straw men don’t equate to the repeated, wilful targeting of hospitals and carpet bombing of civilian areas.
Straw men? Did the assault on Fallujah not happen in your world ? Was it not a free fire zone, including civilians, for artillery and aircraft ?Is the CIA drone program not active in the border region of Pakistan in your world ?
You seem to misunderstand the difference between fact and Straw men.
Here is another Pro Russian / Syrian propagandist at work, oh wait, he is US Republican Senator, seems to have a whole load of "straw men" arguments too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfyDgDTu0Go&fe...
Also, I'm not really following your basic argument. You seem be making the case that because something bad happened in the past, a free pass is given to do other unconnected bad stuff today? Am I miss-understanding this?
Perhaps you should ask yourself, why does Al Nusra / AL Qaeda have a Brigade size number of tanks to assault Alepo? Where did they come from, how are they fuelled and armed, who is supporting and training them ? The disturbing answer is us and our Salafist "allies".
You might want to actually watch the "Russian / Syrian propagandist" US republican senator Richard Black. You might get a different perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfyDgDTu0Go&fe...
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Fallujah was very populated when US assault started with much worse ammunition.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
There is a huge difference in the way foreign policy is implemented between the West and Russia, even if the end results are increasingly looking similar.
In one of the links QT quoted above, there was the statistic floating around that around 4000 Germans were killed on D-Day, with a further 6000 civilians killed by the Allies in the same area. By your logic, this makes the Allies as bad as the Germans. I wouldn't counter that argument particularly, there is certainly the argument there that anyone involved in conflict is as good/bad as each other. But you at least need to take ownership of that viewpoint.
Guerilla tactics have long been to counter the rules of the Geneva convention. That includes setting up strategic posts in hospitals, or leaking the intelligence that you have.
In one of the links QT quoted above, there was the statistic floating around that around 4000 Germans were killed on D-Day, with a further 6000 civilians killed by the Allies in the same area. By your logic, this makes the Allies as bad as the Germans. I wouldn't counter that argument particularly, there is certainly the argument there that anyone involved in conflict is as good/bad as each other. But you at least need to take ownership of that viewpoint.
Guerilla tactics have long been to counter the rules of the Geneva convention. That includes setting up strategic posts in hospitals, or leaking the intelligence that you have.
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Ah yes, the highly accurate bombing and shelling of Fallujah, the poisoning of the city with depleted uranium munitions. The highly accurate bombing of Syrian military units, the highly accurate bombing of Afghan hospitals, the highly accurate bombing of Iraqi civilians, The highly accurate canon fire on journalists in Iraq (which we would not even know about but for Manning) Shall I go on? There is years worth of highly accurate civilians casualties. They are so lucky all those checks and balances are there.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Funny how those highly accurate bombs could not hit ISIS controlled stationary oil storage tanks, or ISIS oil wells and kilometre long ISIS oil tanker columns running to Turkey? How very odd.
Nerve gas ? Would that be the home made variety used in the attack in Ghouta perhaps ? The precursors of which are known to have been supplied by Turkey to "moderate" Islamist groups. Mmmm yea, okay.
Those nasty children must have been Jihadists. Lucky all those checks and balances were in place.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/29/us-d...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 13:17
AreOut said:
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Fallujah was very populated when US assault started with much worse ammunition.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Liokault said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
A free pass was given in Fallujah,
So, your saying its ok to continue bombing hospitals?Perhaps we should not be bombing hospitals at all.
Simple enough for you?
Sylvaforever said:
AreOut said:
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Fallujah was very populated when US assault started with much worse ammunition.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Sylvaforever said:
AreOut said:
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Fallujah was very populated when US assault started with much worse ammunition.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Sylvaforever said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Sylvaforever said:
AreOut said:
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Fallujah was very populated when US assault started with much worse ammunition.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
You could not make it up.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 13:24
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Sylvaforever said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Sylvaforever said:
AreOut said:
Cobnapint said:
Assad and Putin are using unguided cluster, incendiary, free fall and nerve gas munitions DELIBERATELY in densely populated civilian areas.
The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
Fallujah was very populated when US assault started with much worse ammunition.The US drone attacks are being used against known terrorist targets (bar the occasional admitted mistake) highly accurate and will only happen once a series of checks and balances have been adhered to. The same goes for British drone strikes.
Can you not see the difference?
You could not make it up.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 13:24
AreOut said:
Liokault said:
So, your saying its ok to continue bombing hospitals?
they aren't intentionally bombing hospitals but areas around and yes when you use very old free fall bombs sometimes you are going to hit wrong target too but they don't have the other choiceLiokault said:
AreOut said:
Liokault said:
So, your saying its ok to continue bombing hospitals?
they aren't intentionally bombing hospitals but areas around and yes when you use very old free fall bombs sometimes you are going to hit wrong target too but they don't have the other choiceUS just suspended diplomatic ties with Russia. This whole mess is getting glow in the dark serious. We have nuclear armed opponents, fighting in a small area, with dubious allies, without clear objectives and not talking. Sounds like a script for a big oops.
Where is this going to end? Is the US going to allow it's Salafist "allies" to drag it into a hot war with Russia?
I hope not, but wars have started for stranger reasons. We have China, Russia Iran and Syria on one side, with US, UK, Turkey, Israel, Saudi and Qatar on the other.
Is the UK or USA prepared to go to war in support of ISIS or Al Nusra? I guess we will find out.
It is odd, that there seems to be inflection points just when the Syrian government gets the upper hand. The homemade chemical weapon attack and now this. Strange how that timing works out.
Where is this going to end? Is the US going to allow it's Salafist "allies" to drag it into a hot war with Russia?
I hope not, but wars have started for stranger reasons. We have China, Russia Iran and Syria on one side, with US, UK, Turkey, Israel, Saudi and Qatar on the other.
Is the UK or USA prepared to go to war in support of ISIS or Al Nusra? I guess we will find out.
It is odd, that there seems to be inflection points just when the Syrian government gets the upper hand. The homemade chemical weapon attack and now this. Strange how that timing works out.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 19:33
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