Meanwhile, In Syria

[QuantumTokoloshi]

gooner1 said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Cobnapint said:

Budflicker said:

By that then I take it they knew full well they were bombing Syrian army troops the other week then and meant to do it?

I don't think for one minute that was a deliberate attack on Syrian troops.

They knew full well they'd done it 'afterwards' yes, That's when the admission came.

Of course it was not a deliberate attack, just like The gulf of Tonkin incident was all about North Vietnamese aggression, likewise the bay of pigs invasion, was all due to evil Cuban aggression, that evil dictator Saddam Hussein with his Weapons of Mass Destruction and close links to Al Qaeda, those dangerous people in Grenada deserved to be invaded, they were clearly a threat with their Caribbean island cocktails and finally Operation Just cause, the USA invaded Panama because of terrible Panamanian drug dealing (A strange parallel to another conflict in Ukraine, but hey that is the evil Russians)

In other news, the Tooth fairy and Easter Bunny have been spotted in Hyde park...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 4th October 15:23

Have the Russians admitted to any, erm, mistakes in the current bloodletting?

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

[AreOut]

Liokault said:

Or there hitting the same hospital over and over again. I know which scenario I think is more likely.

or maybe it's just pilots firing back on "doctors" like this one

http://www.mycity-military.com/imgs4/300849_590224...

[gooner1]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

gooner1 said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

Agree completely, however, 3 points.

1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.

2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.

3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.

Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.

[frankenstein12]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

gooner1 said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

Agree completely, however, 3 points.

1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.

2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.

3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.

Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.

The thing that really got me with this was all the false flags with made up incidents near the beginning of it all.

"Rebels" posting footage with captured military aircraft and photos thereof but close examination showed they were actually display aircraft in a military museum. Footage of an innocent member of public shot by an SAA sniper. It then transpires there is video from another angle showing the rebels forcing the person to run out into the open with hands tied and being shot by the rebels.

But by far the best false flag imo was the first major incident with a large group of woman and children slaughtered in a compound by SAA troops with throats slit. Only two problems. 1st the compound was deep inside rebel held territory and two the woman and children had their throats slit which is the favourite method of the rebels not the SAA.

[scherzkeks]

gooner1 said:

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

The problem is, they aren't "equally to blame." The Assad government is sovereign. The US is in violation of international law for even being there.

Furthermore, to make war on and destabilze Syria, the US has provided material support to Islamic fundamentalists; and in the ultimate ironic twist, they are the same fundamentalists who supposedly attacked us on 911 (Al-Quaida) and against whom we have fought our Orwellian War on Terror since 2001.

On a moral level, there is no comparison.

[skyrover]

scherzkeks said:

gooner1 said:

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

The problem is, they aren't "equally to blame." The Assad government is sovereign. The US is in violation of international law for even being there.

Furthermore, to make war on and destabilze Syria, the US has provided material support to Islamic fundamentalists; and in the ultimate ironic twist, they are the same fundamentalists who supposedly attacked us on 911 (Al-Quaida) and against whom we have fought our Orwellian War on Terror since 2001.

On a moral level, there is no comparison.

By that logic, Russia is in complete violation in Ukraine... yet your having none of it.

Hypocrite

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

scherzkeks said:

gooner1 said:

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

The problem is, they aren't "equally to blame." The Assad government is sovereign. The US is in violation of international law for even being there.

Furthermore, to make war on and destabilze Syria, the US has provided material support to Islamic fundamentalists; and in the ultimate ironic twist, they are the same fundamentalists who supposedly attacked us on 911 (Al-Quaida) and against whom we have fought our Orwellian War on Terror since 2001.

On a moral level, there is no comparison.

By that logic, Russia is in complete violation in Ukraine... yet your having none of it.

Hypocrite

It is an excellent point, in both cases, who are the protagonists involved?

Notice how in both cases, we have "regime change" being attempted. Democracy, but not as we know it.

In the Ukraine, we have NATO supporting neo nazis, in Syria they are supporting Islamist fundamentalists.

Yea hypocrites, one and all.

[anonymous-user]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

skyrover said:

scherzkeks said:

gooner1 said:

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

The problem is, they aren't "equally to blame." The Assad government is sovereign. The US is in violation of international law for even being there.

Furthermore, to make war on and destabilze Syria, the US has provided material support to Islamic fundamentalists; and in the ultimate ironic twist, they are the same fundamentalists who supposedly attacked us on 911 (Al-Quaida) and against whom we have fought our Orwellian War on Terror since 2001.

On a moral level, there is no comparison.

By that logic, Russia is in complete violation in Ukraine... yet your having none of it.

Hypocrite

It is an excellent point, in both cases, who are the protagonists involved?

Notice how in both cases, we have "regime change" being attempted. Democracy, but not as we know it.

In the Ukraine, we have NATO supporting neo nazis, in Syria they are supporting Islamist fundamentalists.

Yea hypocrites, one and all.

It is now simply the case that 'we' want something, 'they' want something too, and we're all doing what's necessary to get that. fk the people who get caught up in the middle, screw the fact that we're siding with nutcases and formenting future issues. Dress it all up as being necessary for our security or their wellbeing. It's evil, isn't it?

[The Don of Croy]

On R4 this am about 08:45, interview with (I think) a former British Ambassador to Russia; says the conflict is not what the msm says (!) but instead we should understand what Russia is doing - and that is waging war against islamic fundamentalists (who previously attacked Mother Russia through Chechnya).

He also said Russia is a bd but an understandable bd - they want to be seen as strong and respected (aka feared) and will do whatever that takes, short of all out war with World players (which it will not do apparently).

Credit to the beeb for giving him airtime. Pity he is hidden away at the end of the programme.

[pim]

I doubt if the Russians care about fundamentalist.

Puting is making a stand against the west be it right or wrong.Being cynical casualties are a result of war and do we really care.

If you listen the way people talk about immigration or refugees not our problem.Journalist showing fake emotions and going back to their cushy lives.

[hidetheelephants]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Budflicker said:

Cobnapint said:

That's a different kettle of fish for obvious reasons, and Putin is throwing his weight around exactly for those reasons - he knows we won't do it.

That's not to say there isn't enough evidence to construct a fair minded global coalition against him.

Don't forget, the US will have tracked every single flight from take-off to landing in that particular theatre. They know exactly what type of planes, who's planes, what time those planes conducted attacks and where.

They know far more than they let on, and that will have contributed to the decision made today.

By that then I take it they knew full well they were bombing Syrian army troops the other week then and meant to do it?

No, that was a perfectly excusable mistake, that it was coordinated with an ISIS offensive was merely coincidence, against the only Syrian government outpost in the east of Syria. US-ISIS-AF at work. Let ask the same question about the UN convoy attack. A NATO drone was overhead before and during the attack, with evidence to suggest it was a Hellfire missile that struck the convoy. How convenient to have a UN convoy attack, just when the Syrian Army is gaining ground, next the hospital attacks, it almost seems like they do not want the Syrian government to take control of its own country again. that cannot be, surely!

I can't claim to be familiar with exactly how many missiles or bombs the average drone can carry, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot less than 18.

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

What rot; the russians have just as capable laser guided weaponry as we do; they just don't give a ste about collateral damage war crimes.

[frankenstein12]

hidetheelephants said:

What rot; the russians have just as capable laser guided weaponry as we do; they just don't give a ste about collateral damage war crimes.

War crimes...

Hmm I agree mitigating damage, injury, death and suffering is necessary however on the flip side when fighting in this sort of war which is close combat in confined space with innocent civilians being used as human shields the rules of war have to be changed and acceptance needs to be had of the fact that there will be civilian casualties.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

hidetheelephants said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Budflicker said:

Cobnapint said:

That's a different kettle of fish for obvious reasons, and Putin is throwing his weight around exactly for those reasons - he knows we won't do it.

That's not to say there isn't enough evidence to construct a fair minded global coalition against him.

Don't forget, the US will have tracked every single flight from take-off to landing in that particular theatre. They know exactly what type of planes, who's planes, what time those planes conducted attacks and where.

They know far more than they let on, and that will have contributed to the decision made today.

By that then I take it they knew full well they were bombing Syrian army troops the other week then and meant to do it?

No, that was a perfectly excusable mistake, that it was coordinated with an ISIS offensive was merely coincidence, against the only Syrian government outpost in the east of Syria. US-ISIS-AF at work. Let ask the same question about the UN convoy attack. A NATO drone was overhead before and during the attack, with evidence to suggest it was a Hellfire missile that struck the convoy. How convenient to have a UN convoy attack, just when the Syrian Army is gaining ground, next the hospital attacks, it almost seems like they do not want the Syrian government to take control of its own country again. that cannot be, surely!

I can't claim to be familiar with exactly how many missiles or bombs the average drone can carry, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot less than 18.

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

What rot; the russians have just as capable laser guided weaponry as we do; they just don't give a ste about collateral damage war crimes.

Not sure where this 18 number comes from?

In the same vein, is the the USA guilty of war crimes, making a large urban conurbation such as Fallujah, a free firezone? Including concentrated artillery strikes, free fall aerial bombing from B52s and White phosphorous strikes. That is an acceptable strategy for assaulting an urban area, but god forbid the Russians do it! War Crime , War Crime.

The Russians are using precision guided weapons, Kaliber cruise missile strikes are a good example, but then again Russian operational doctrine, is focused towards area weapons, rather than a NATO focus on PGMs.

The civilians have the option to leave, The SAA has made this clear, but our "moderate" Islamist allies need hostages, no propaganda or human shields without civilian hostages. I do not see much call for War crimes in their case. I wonder why?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 6th October 08:48

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

US just suspended diplomatic ties with Russia. This whole mess is getting glow in the dark serious. We have nuclear armed opponents, fighting in a small area, with dubious allies, without clear objectives and not talking. Sounds like a script for a big oops.

Where is this going to end? Is the US going to allow it's Salafist "allies" to drag it into a hot war with Russia?

I hope not, but wars have started for stranger reasons. We have China, Russia Iran and Syria on one side, with US, UK, Turkey, Israel, Saudi and Qatar on the other.

Is the UK or USA prepared to go to war in support of ISIS or Al Nusra? I guess we will find out.

It is odd, that there seems to be inflection points just when the Syrian government gets the upper hand. The homemade chemical weapon attack and now this. Strange how that timing works out.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 19:33

Quantum,

How exactly is Israel involved?

Please be specific.

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

AreOut said:

Liokault said:

You really think that's true? The Russians couldn't hit more hospitals if they tried.

well according to MSM they have hit so many hospitals that it seems there is a hospital in every street of Aleppo...see the map of Aleppo do the count and check for yourself

There are hospitals, medical centres, clinics and also makeshift clinics. Please get your facts strait and do not generalise to try and make your point.
It just makes your opinion weaker.

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

US just suspended diplomatic ties with Russia. This whole mess is getting glow in the dark serious. We have nuclear armed opponents, fighting in a small area, with dubious allies, without clear objectives and not talking. Sounds like a script for a big oops.

Where is this going to end? Is the US going to allow it's Salafist "allies" to drag it into a hot war with Russia?

I hope not, but wars have started for stranger reasons. We have China, Russia Iran and Syria on one side, with US, UK, Turkey, Israel, Saudi and Qatar on the other.

Is the UK or USA prepared to go to war in support of ISIS or Al Nusra? I guess we will find out.

It is odd, that there seems to be inflection points just when the Syrian government gets the upper hand. The homemade chemical weapon attack and now this. Strange how that timing works out.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 19:33

Quantum,

How exactly is Israel involved?

Please be specific.

Phil

It is in Israel's interest for the war to continue, not end. Weakening Assad & Syria, weakening Hezbollah, weakening Iran and Iranian support for Hezbollah. It take Hezbollah's focus away from Israel, The entire Golan heights issue is a moot point now too. It makes sense for them to play both sides, no winner, is a winner for Israel, not so much for the Syrian people.

A no fly zone wold be an ideal situation for them, preventing Assad from using the advantage of his Air force, but not weakening enough to lose outright, perpetual war in Syria. Think Iraq in the 1990's, the ideal situation for Israel.

http://europe.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-admi...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 6th October 09:29

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

gooner1 said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

Agree completely, however, 3 points.

1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.

2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.

3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.
U
Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.

Did Kiev- request assistance from Moscow?

I don't think so.

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

gooner1 said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

Agree completely, however, 3 points.

1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.

2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.

3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.
U
Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.

Did Kiev- request assistance from Moscow?

I don't think so.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Thursday 6th October 09:36

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

gooner1 said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.

But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.

Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.

Agree completely, however, 3 points.

1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.

2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.

3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.
U
Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.

Did Kiev- request assistance from Moscow?

I don't think so.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Thursday 6th October 09:36