Meanwhile, In Syria

[Stickyfinger]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stickyfinger said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Let's see the NATO drone footage, but I suspect that will never be released voluntarily, cannot have our newest and best "Allies" to be shown for the absolute maniacs they are.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Sunday 9th October 09:12

And how do you get on demanding to see Russian military drone footage ?

There was footage already released, Damn Russians, daring to release their drone footage, do they not know we have "Islamic fundamentalist allies" to protect.

Well that is an EXPECTED reply.

Is the weather good in Moscow today ?

Rule of thumb.....believe nothing from either side.

[scherzkeks]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

hidetheelephants said:

I'm not entirely convinced but the argument presented ties together the picture evidence coherently. As for the 'cui bono?' issue, never assign to malice that which can be reasonably attributed to incompetence.

Bellingcat is not the most objective news site

You can call them bloggers, it is ok.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Stickyfinger said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stickyfinger said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Let's see the NATO drone footage, but I suspect that will never be released voluntarily, cannot have our newest and best "Allies" to be shown for the absolute maniacs they are.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Sunday 9th October 09:12

And how do you get on demanding to see Russian military drone footage ?

There was footage already released, Damn Russians, daring to release their drone footage, do they not know we have "Islamic fundamentalist allies" to protect.

Well that is an EXPECTED reply.

Is the weather good in Moscow today ?

Rule of thumb.....believe nothing from either side.

Agree on the cynicism, but does not change the fact that one side has released footage while the other has not.

Not understanding your foes make for poor strategic or political decisions, ask yourself, why is he there and why do the Russians support him so strongly?

Once you answer that, things get a different perspective.

[Cobnapint]

frankenstein12 said:

Cobnapint said:

Scoobman said:

Whatever you think of the protagonists, In my book the US and Russia are both as ruthless as each other, I think this clip sums up why Russia has outmaneuvered the States.

John Simpson tries to be all elder BBC statesman like and tries to put Putin on the ropes. Putin very calmly verbally kicks him around the room, then head buts him and then puts on in the nape of his neck.

Although undoubtedly the US have highly intelligent people working for them. You get the impression that Putin is in a higher intellectual league than many of his high end American counter parts.

watch the clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwWMaJJ_MSg

Well, Putin thinks he's put him down by spewing his 'it's not my fault gov' and 'we haven't invaded anybody' paranoia routine.

Edited by Cobnapint on Sunday 9th October 18:39

I really hope you are joking?

Its very easy to verify his statements. Really it is.

Verify them as what?

He said he'd not attacked anybody politically or invaded anybody. And then went on to avoid the Ukraine question completely.

He blamed NATO for creeping Eastwards. Wrong way round chap. Former USSR countries have moved westward. They want nothing to do with Russia, and who can blame them. They want even less to do with Russia now he's in charge.

He said he only had two foreign military bases and the US has lots, and what are they doing in Europe. Well, that'll be called NATO, and defending other allies against people like you 'don't invade anybody', China and NK.

He says that nobody listens to them or has dialogue. Well maybe if you didn't tell so many lies, perhaps they'd bother.

Military budget. Well perhaps if he and his sidekicks hadn't had their fingers in the jar for so long, he'd be able to buy a few more BUKs to lend out wouldn't he.

Yes the US did pull out of the missile treaty, but if they are now pointed at you, it's because of what you did in Crimea and what you are doing in E Ukraine - which you won't talk about.

And the WTO sanctions against Russia being illegal? His take-over of Crimea being totally 'legal' of course. Have you no common sense? Lol.

[Stickyfinger]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Agree on the cynicism, but does not change the fact that one side has released footage while the other has not.

Not understanding your foes make for poor strategic or political decisions, ask yourself, why is he there and why do the Russians support him so strongly?

Once you answer that, things get a different perspective.

Keep voting for Putin in the next election, you are allowed being a citizen.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Stickyfinger said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Agree on the cynicism, but does not change the fact that one side has released footage while the other has not.

Not understanding your foes make for poor strategic or political decisions, ask yourself, why is he there and why do the Russians support him so strongly?

Once you answer that, things get a different perspective.

And how sid those elections in out great ally Saudi go?

How did those elections

Keep voting for Putin in the next election, you are allowed being a citizen.

Who cares? The West certainly does not, considering our allies in Syria! At least the non Putin voters get to keep their heads attached to their shoulders. I am looking at you Saudi, Qatar, Bharain, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra and ISIS.

Putin came into power in the most dubious of circumstances, including reports of security services planting bombs in residential buildings.

He is a bd, but is a Russian bd and they quite like the way he works.

He is also currently a bd with a huge nuclear arsenal, geopolitical influence and substantial conventional military might, and holds the gas taps to western Europe. Work with is a much better idea, considering the common enemy, we both have, ask the residents of Paris, Nice and Brussels.

But then that rational and pragmatic view, does not fit well with cold war v2.0 narrative being spun.

So I am Russian now, sure and the tooth fairy will be around shortly.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 10th October 20:22

[Stickyfinger]

but a fked economy.....what happened to the last lot in power with a fked economy ?

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Stickyfinger said:

but a fked economy.....what happened to the last lot in power with a fked economy ?

And that is why Putin exists! The wreckage of post USSR economic experiments ( Chicago school) shock treatment, along with state capture that happened under Yeltsin, gave rise to Putin.

And why is the economy now wrecked? And that has forced Russia into the arms of China and Iran. Yea, brilliant strategic thinking there.

It has only made Putin more popular inside of Russia, but hey, please renew your subscription to "a new American century" Rumsfeld, Rove, Bush and Cheney must be your favourite authors.

[Stickyfinger]

BUT....Putin, by his actions has caused it....Putin (Russia) is choosing its path, Russians need to wake up to reality (or are they still all peasants to be controlled still ?)

and please, do not assume because you are very wrong

Edited by Stickyfinger on Monday 10th October 20:36

[Scoobman]

Cobnapint said:

frankenstein12 said:

Cobnapint said:

Scoobman said:

Whatever you think of the protagonists, In my book the US and Russia are both as ruthless as each other, I think this clip sums up why Russia has outmaneuvered the States.

John Simpson tries to be all elder BBC statesman like and tries to put Putin on the ropes. Putin very calmly verbally kicks him around the room, then head buts him and then puts on in the nape of his neck.

Although undoubtedly the US have highly intelligent people working for them. You get the impression that Putin is in a higher intellectual league than many of his high end American counter parts.

watch the clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwWMaJJ_MSg

Well, Putin thinks he's put him down by spewing his 'it's not my fault gov' and 'we haven't invaded anybody' paranoia routine.

Edited by Cobnapint on Sunday 9th October 18:39

I really hope you are joking?

Its very easy to verify his statements. Really it is.

Verify them as what?

He said he'd not attacked anybody politically or invaded anybody. And then went on to avoid the Ukraine question completely.

He blamed NATO for creeping Eastwards. Wrong way round chap. Former USSR countries have moved westward. They want nothing to do with Russia, and who can blame them. They want even less to do with Russia now he's in charge.

He said he only had two foreign military bases and the US has lots, and what are they doing in Europe. Well, that'll be called NATO, and defending other allies against people like you 'don't invade anybody', China and NK.

He says that nobody listens to them or has dialogue. Well maybe if you didn't tell so many lies, perhaps they'd bother.

Military budget. Well perhaps if he and his sidekicks hadn't had their fingers in the jar for so long, he'd be able to buy a few more BUKs to lend out wouldn't he.

Yes the US did pull out of the missile treaty, but if they are now pointed at you, it's because of what you did in Crimea and what you are doing in E Ukraine - which you won't talk about.

And the WTO sanctions against Russia being illegal? His take-over of Crimea being totally 'legal' of course. Have you no common sense? Lol.

That is a post from someone that just takes things at face value they see on the news. It is the basic on the surface facts showing absolutely no understanding of actual underlying causes...or European history for that matter.

A statement such as this, so ignorant on so many levels.

´´He blamed NATO for creeping Eastwards. Wrong way round chap. Former USSR countries have moved westward. They want nothing to do with Russia, and who can blame them. They want even less to do with Russia now he's in charge.´´

Cobnapint you need to start digging a LOT deeper. I shall dip out of this thread now.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Stickyfinger said:

BUT....Putin, by his actions has caused it....Putin (Russia) is choosing its path, Russians need to wake up to reality (or are they still all peasants to be controlled still ?)

and please, do not assume because you are very wrong

Edited by Stickyfinger on Monday 10th October 20:36

Assume what?

I am not sure what point you are making here. The west needs to wake up to the new world, which means new threats. China is now both an economic and military power, that is starting to spread its wings. You only have to look at Africa to see this clearly. I'm currently sitting in Uganda, and the Chinese influence in West, East and Southern Africa is huge.

Iran is back in play in the middle east, thanks to the Iraq war legacy. Another country which can be a useful ally, and also needs close watching. The only thing the Saudis hate more than Israel, is Iran.

Russia, still holds several cards, energy and geopolitical influence, as well as a credible military threat.

The West has more chance to deal with Russia than the other two. Instead of isolating Russia by trying to mess around on its borders, with covert or overt regime change such as Ukraine and Georgia, perhaps look to the long term threats, radical Islam, the emergence of China and the middle East.

The USA and closely dragged along, NATO, have forgotten how to play in a multi polar world, the last 20 years. They have been able to do pretty much as they liked, being the sole superpower and alliance.

This has changed, and they seem to be scratching their heads and reacting to situations, with Ill thought out interventions, the post Iraq invasion or the post high explosive democratisation of Libya, being glaring examples.

The USA reminds me of the British empire circa 1910, bruised after the boer war ( a war of resource acquisition, like Iraq and libyan war) but still the major power, militarily and economically, being threatened by the emerging and hungry power of Germany, China now.

The USA was still a few decades away from taking that superpower crown.. Warfare had changed and like now, new types of warfare have emerged, cyber being a good example, the county most vulnerable to it, is the USA. The ultimate asymmetrical threat,along with biological.

The chess pieces seem to be in a similar position now, as then.

A rambling answer, I apologise, but keen to see others view.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 10th October 21:24

[Cobnapint]

Putin has become more popular inside Russia for the simple reason that the population doesn't get any other opinion than the tripe put out by state controlled media.

Putin has also issued a decree which censors the internet. This censorship is abused on a regular basis to block any criticism of the Kremlin.

It's like a bigger version of NK, but with McDonald's (when they're not being closed for spurious allegations of sanitary violations in response to UN sanctions, that is).

[scherzkeks]

Cobnapint said:

Putin has become more popular inside Russia for the simple reason that the population doesn't get any other opinion than the tripe put out by state controlled media.

Putin has also issued a decree which censors the internet. This censorship is abused on a regular basis to block any criticism of the Kremlin.

It's like a bigger version of NK, but with McDonald's (when they're not being closed for spurious allegations of sanitary violations in response to UN sanctions, that is).

Life in Russia folks. Cobna knows all about it. He reads the news, you know.

[Scoobman]

For all you guys on here, interested in this stuff. This is a an excellent book.
Written by two leading US defense experts. In stead of writing an academic text book, which most would not read, they put the possible scenarios (using existing tech) of the next major conflict into a novel.

Worth a read, if you haven't all ready

http://www.ghostfleetbook.com/the-book/


I have just spent a fascinating day in Germany with a bunch of Vietnam combat helicopter pilots, interesting to see their view of the war and how they dealt with it. Anyway off to bed.......bushed!

[Stickyfinger]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Stickyfinger said:

BUT....Putin, by his actions has caused it....Putin (Russia) is choosing its path, Russians need to wake up to reality (or are they still all peasants to be controlled still ?)

and please, do not assume because you are very wrong

Edited by Stickyfinger on Monday 10th October 20:36

Assume what?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 10th October 21:24

QuantumTokoloshi said:

but hey, please renew your subscription to "a new American century" Rumsfeld, Rove, Bush and Cheney must be your favourite authors.

[Insanity Magnet]

Apologies if this has already been posted but...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37613273

I think there's some epic geopolitical trolling going on at the moment.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Insanity Magnet said:

Apologies if this has already been posted but...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37613273

I think there's some epic geopolitical trolling going on at the moment.

And now we know the price for the buffer zone in Southern Turkey. I wonder if this is also tied to the attempted coup, with the rumours of US involvement.

Erdogan plays both sides, and proves Putin can be worked with, another route bypassing Ukraine for gas.

Qatar with be seething. I am not sure on the stability of that pipeline, will make a great target for the YPG and a few kgs of PETN.

[AreOut]

Cobnapint said:

Putin has become more popular inside Russia for the simple reason that the population doesn't get any other opinion than the tripe put out by state controlled media.

Putin has also issued a decree which censors the internet. This censorship is abused on a regular basis to block any criticism of the Kremlin.

It's like a bigger version of NK, but with McDonald's (when they're not being closed for spurious allegations of sanitary violations in response to UN sanctions, that is).

how many Russians you know?!

[Cobnapint]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

And now we know the price for the buffer zone in Southern Turkey. I wonder if this is also tied to the attempted coup, with the rumours of US involvement.

Erdogan plays both sides, and proves Putin can be worked with.....

The costs of getting found out on that one would have been too great to bear for the US, whether they like Erdogan or not. One NATO member plotting a coup in another NATO members country? Don't think so - that's a conspiracy theory way too far.

As for 'working' with Putin - you think he's doing this to be nice? I smell a rat.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

I

Cobnapint said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

And now we know the price for the buffer zone in Southern Turkey. I wonder if this is also tied to the attempted coup, with the rumours of US involvement.

Erdogan plays both sides, and proves Putin can be worked with.....

The costs of getting found out on that one would have been too great to bear for the US, whether they like Erdogan or not. One NATO member plotting a coup in another NATO members country? Don't think so - that's a conspiracy theory way too far.

As for 'working' with Putin - you think he's doing this to be nice? I smell a rat.

You might want to read about the De Gaulle assassination in France. Real life is often stranger than fiction.

http://whowhatwhy.org/2015/10/20/jfk-assassination...

You are seeing the costs played out in front of you.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 11th October 12:54