Meanwhile, In Syria

[coetzeeh]

FredClogs said:

Thanks, a clusterfk, what I thought. Who is actually commanding ISIS activities on the ground and administering the territories they have? I believe they have started making passports, driver licenses (men only obvs) etc... so there is a bureaucracy in play - who's the figure head?

I don't know who leads ISIS, but I suspect they quickly losing their enthusiasm for this war - the Russians were doing leaflet drops from a/c telling locals to get the hell out of there as the bombing is being stepped up.

[AreOut]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The escalation has already started. This entire situation has the potential to spiral out of control rapidly.

you think so?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-aircraft-makes...

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

This is the one you want;

https://youtu.be/JaO9HKtnptk

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Tuesday 6th October 17:16

ISIS immigration. Strict checks for weapons. If you don't have one, They give you one.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

AreOut said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

The escalation has already started. This entire situation has the potential to spiral out of control rapidly.

you think so?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russian-aircraft-makes...

A quote from the article, please forgive the apostrophes, they seem to offend sensitive souls.

""We're up a lot more often than [the Russians] are so when we do have to move around [them] for safe operation, it's for a small period of time compared to the hours and hours that we're airborne over Iraq and Syria," said Brown."

If they are up so much more, you might wonder about their effectiveness in the light of the last few days.

How are the Russians having incursions into Turkish airspace an escalation when the US and Turkish aircraft are flying and bombing in Syrian airspace?

I smell something, and it is not perfume.

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 6th October 21:08

[hidetheelephants]

FredClogs said:

Thanks, a clusterfk, what I thought. Who is actually commanding ISIS activities on the ground and administering the territories they have? I believe they have started making passports, driver licenses (men only obvs) etc... so there is a bureaucracy in play - who's the figure head?

Allah surely?

coetzeeh said:

I don't know who leads ISIS, but I suspect they quickly losing their enthusiasm for this war - the Russians were doing leaflet drops from a/c telling locals to get the hell out of there as the bombing is being stepped up.

Ah, a leaf out of the RAF in iraq playbook, circa 1922;
Trenchard would be proud.

[rich85uk]

coetzeeh said:

That probably sums it up.

Or you could put it another way:
The Saudi (Sunni) are backing the free Syrian rebels (Sunni) and ISIS as they want to get rid of Assad (Shi-ite).
Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon (Shi-ite) are supporting Assad. Iraq (Shi-ite) are sympathetic to Iran/Syria and allow Iran to use their territory to fight Free Syrian rebels. Iran also help Iraq fight Isis in Iraq.
The West are supporting Saudi/Free Syrian Army to get rid of Assad and instate a puppet/Sunni regime so Saudi can build a gas/oil pipeline to the Western Europe and cripple Russia financially.

Putin is having none of it (and returning the favour after Saudi financed the forces that fought Russia in Afghanistan in the 80's).
Iran is returning the favour after Saudi supported Saddam (Sunni) during the Iran/Iraq war in the 80's.

If you listen to the western media the war is all about getting rid of evil Assad.

That is exactly how I see it, I also have a horrible feeling the west have been indirectly allowing ISIS to gain advanced weapons and training. Funny how the Russian air strikes that have been going on for a week have been having a bigger effect than the US led air strikes that have been going on for several years

[cirian75]

Stop the world!

I want to get off.

[TLandCruiser]

rich85uk said:

That is exactly how I see it, I also have a horrible feeling the west have been indirectly allowing ISIS to gain advanced weapons and training. Funny how the Russian air strikes that have been going on for a week have been having a bigger effect than the US led air strikes that have been going on for several years

It's probably not as effective as the Russian propaganda machine is making out. However, russia would bomb Isis in Iraq if they request Russian air support.

https://www.rt.com/politics/317764-russia-ready-to...

Edited by TLandCruiser on Wednesday 7th October 00:48

[Transmitter Man]

rich85uk said:

That is exactly how I see it, I also have a horrible feeling the west have been indirectly allowing ISIS to gain advanced weapons and training. Funny how the Russian air strikes that have been going on for a week have been having a bigger effect than the US led air strikes that have been going on for several years

Shame it's on the wrong players.

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Transmitter Man said:

rich85uk said:

That is exactly how I see it, I also have a horrible feeling the west have been indirectly allowing ISIS to gain advanced weapons and training. Funny how the Russian air strikes that have been going on for a week have been having a bigger effect than the US led air strikes that have been going on for several years

Shame it's on the wrong players.

Phil

The Russians should use moderate ammunition on the moderate Islamists and hard core ammunition on the hard core Islamists. That sounds like a reasonable solution.

Turkey has claimed a 5 kilometer area inside of Syria since 2012 as a buffer zone. The Russian aircraft may not have been in Turkish airspace but only Turkish claimed airspace, a subtle bur important difference.

The Greeks might have some experience of this behavior by Turkey.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 7th October 07:55

[Budflicker]

Are Turkish and American jets not entering Syrian airspace without authorisation whereby Russian jets are invited by the Syrian government?

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Budflicker said:

Are Turkish and American jets not entering Syrian airspace without authorisation whereby Russian jets are invited by the Syrian government?

Yes, but they are supporting moderately Islamist terrorists, sorry freedom groups, not at all connected to ISIS in anyway or indistinguishable from them, that are trying to overthrow the secular Syrian Government and implement a harsh interpretation of Sharia law. Our planes will help bring about a peaceful, free and democratic country by dropping bombs on hospitals, just like the successful interventions in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Unlike the warlike, expansionist, evil, vodka drinking and generally bad smelling Russians who dare to respect a treaty obligation with Syria. Syria which is ruled by a nasty, evil ophthalmic surgeon dictator (they are the worst), who is completely different to our friendly dictators in Saudi, Qatar and Bahrain, who would never dream of shooting and imprisoning pro-democracy protesters, being the very birthplace and home of radical Islamist fundamentalism or invade countries like Yemen and kill 1000s there.

Am I doing the propaganda thing correctly?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 7th October 08:22

[Budflicker]

Terrible journalism but the message is there.

Why do CNN and Sky News and all the others rely and quote data from such a dodgy source?

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Syrian_Observatory_...

[scherzkeks]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Am I doing the propaganda thing correctly?

[skyrover]

scherzkeks said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Am I doing the propaganda thing correctly?

As well as any self respecting RT journalist yes

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Yes, but they are supporting moderately Islamist terrorists, sorry freedom groups, not at all connected to ISIS in anyway or indistinguishable from them, that are trying to overthrow the secular Syrian Government and implement a harsh interpretation of Sharia law. Our planes will help bring about a peaceful, free and democratic country by dropping bombs on hospitals, just like the successful interventions in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Unlike the warlike, expansionist, evil, vodka drinking and generally bad smelling Russians who dare to respect a treaty obligation with Syria. Syria which is ruled by a nasty, evil ophthalmic surgeon dictator (they are the worst), who is completely different to our friendly dictators in Saudi, Qatar and Bahrain, who would never dream of shooting and imprisoning pro-democracy protesters, being the very birthplace and home of radical Islamist fundamentalism or invade countries like Yemen and kill 1000s there.

Am I doing the propaganda thing correctly?

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 7th October 08:22

How dare you say Russians smell.

My wife will hit you with a frying pan then go for you with a kitchen knife.

Phil

[QuantumTokoloshi]

skyrover said:

scherzkeks said:

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Am I doing the propaganda thing correctly?

As well as any self respecting RT journalist yes

Agreed, change the names and it is reusable either way.

The problem is you recognise it for what it is, not many do.

[scherzkeks]

Budflicker said:

Terrible journalism but the message is there.

Why do CNN and Sky News and all the others rely and quote data from such a dodgy source?

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Syrian_Observatory_...

Because most mainstream sources are untrustworthy. The industry has compressed and many outlets are owned by the same parent company, who often act as mere stenographers in order to ensure future access. Those leaked Hillary Clinton e-mails that were uncovered recently provide some prime insight there; you can see how the administration was coordinating with MM outlets to get the coverage they wanted on Wikileaks, for example.

[The Don of Croy]

I heard our Defence Sec on R4 this morning, bemoaning the Russian interference in Syrian affairs.

He thinks Iraq may be an example for how Syria could develop - apparently it now has a settled democratic leadership that respects all religions.

I'm not sure I believe the man, tbh.

If we topple Assad, would that stop terrorism in Syria? Halt ISIS? Stem the flow of refugees? If it did then I'd probably be in favour, but I cannot see how they'd guarantee those outcomes. Keep Assad - strengthen him even - and there's a chance he might stabilise his country, surely?

[scherzkeks]

The Don of Croy said:

I heard our Defence Sec on R4 this morning, bemoaning the Russian interference in Syrian affairs.

He bemoans it because this turn of events increases the liklihood that control over proposed gas pipelines will not be in Western hands.

The Don of Croy said:

He thinks Iraq may be an example for how Syria could develop - apparently it now has a settled democratic leadership that respects all religions.

And an ongoing civil war.