Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
QuantumTokoloshi said:
gooner1 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.
But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.
But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.
Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.
1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.
2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.
3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.
U
Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.
I don't think so.
Phil
QuantumTokoloshi said:
It is in Israel's interest for the war to continue, not end. Weakening Assad & Syria, weakening Hezbollah, weakening Iran and Iranian support for Hezbollah. It take Hezbollah's focus away from Israel, The entire Golan heights issue is a moot point now too. It makes sense for them to play both sides, no winner, is a winner for Israel, not so much for the Syrian people.
A no fly zone wold be an ideal situation for them, preventing Assad from using the advantage of his Air force, but not weakening enough to lose outright, perpetual war in Syria. Think Iraq in the 1990's, the ideal situation for Israel.
http://europe.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-admi...
"The advantage of his airforce" ✌A no fly zone wold be an ideal situation for them, preventing Assad from using the advantage of his Air force, but not weakening enough to lose outright, perpetual war in Syria. Think Iraq in the 1990's, the ideal situation for Israel.
http://europe.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-admi...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 6th October 09:29
The one that cannot fly at night you mean.
Phil
AreOut said:
Liokault said:
You really think that's true? The Russians couldn't hit more hospitals if they tried.
well according to MSM they have hit so many hospitals that it seems there is a hospital in every street of Aleppo...see the map of Aleppo do the count and check for yourselfIt just makes your opinion weaker.
Phil
QuantumTokoloshi said:
US just suspended diplomatic ties with Russia. This whole mess is getting glow in the dark serious. We have nuclear armed opponents, fighting in a small area, with dubious allies, without clear objectives and not talking. Sounds like a script for a big oops.
Where is this going to end? Is the US going to allow it's Salafist "allies" to drag it into a hot war with Russia?
I hope not, but wars have started for stranger reasons. We have China, Russia Iran and Syria on one side, with US, UK, Turkey, Israel, Saudi and Qatar on the other.
Is the UK or USA prepared to go to war in support of ISIS or Al Nusra? I guess we will find out.
It is odd, that there seems to be inflection points just when the Syrian government gets the upper hand. The homemade chemical weapon attack and now this. Strange how that timing works out.
Quantum,Where is this going to end? Is the US going to allow it's Salafist "allies" to drag it into a hot war with Russia?
I hope not, but wars have started for stranger reasons. We have China, Russia Iran and Syria on one side, with US, UK, Turkey, Israel, Saudi and Qatar on the other.
Is the UK or USA prepared to go to war in support of ISIS or Al Nusra? I guess we will find out.
It is odd, that there seems to be inflection points just when the Syrian government gets the upper hand. The homemade chemical weapon attack and now this. Strange how that timing works out.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Monday 3rd October 19:33
How exactly is Israel involved?
Please be specific.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
gooner1 said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Over flights of Turkey and Israel, airstrike/s which have killed Hezbolah soldiers and / or SAA soldiers. Google is your friend.
But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.
But then again, they do not have the "highly accurate" democratic weaponry we hear so much about.
Then surely, the use of less accurate democratic weaponry would lead to more mistakes, and thus more admissions.
Don't get me wrong, to me both America and Russia are in it for their own interests and are both equally to blame, along with others. But as per usual the innocents suffer and die.
1. Russian is supporting an ally, with a mutual defence treaty, that asked for assistance, they are also defending Russian military bases within that country. No different to the USA supporting Britain in the second world war.
2. NATO nations and various Salafist countries, are training, supplying and supporting the radical Islamist enemies of the Syrian government, including supplying precursors of chemical weapons to these groups. While professing to be fighting them, the ineffectual nature of that intervention, over a long period, puts that in doubt. Among these supported Islamists, are the same group who parked planes in the work trade center.
3. Fulminate against the non democratic nature of the secular Syrian government, but support theocratic, autocratic, repressive nations. Including supplying weapons used to kill civilians in Yemen.
U
Countries have interests not friends and currently, the Syrian government interests coincide with Russian interests.
I don't think so.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
It is in Israel's interest for the war to continue, not end. Weakening Assad & Syria, weakening Hezbollah, weakening Iran and Iranian support for Hezbollah. It take Hezbollah's focus away from Israel, The entire Golan heights issue is a moot point now too. It makes sense for them to play both sides, no winner, is a winner for Israel, not so much for the Syrian people.
A no fly zone wold be an ideal situation for them, preventing Assad from using the advantage of his Air force, but not weakening enough to lose outright, perpetual war in Syria. Think Iraq in the 1990's, the ideal situation for Israel.
http://europe.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-admi...
"The advantage of his airforce" ?A no fly zone wold be an ideal situation for them, preventing Assad from using the advantage of his Air force, but not weakening enough to lose outright, perpetual war in Syria. Think Iraq in the 1990's, the ideal situation for Israel.
http://europe.newsweek.com/benjamin-netanyahu-admi...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Thursday 6th October 09:29
The one that cannot fly at night you mean.
Phil
You are making my point for me, weaken the government forces, but not fatally so, perpetual war.
The US wants Russia investigated for war crimes.
Another hospital was hit last night, 20 dead.
As Kerry says, this has gone way beyond 'mistakes'.
Oh, and Russia and Syria have ratified an agreement that allows Russian forces (that Putin withdrew in March) to stay on Syrian soil indefinitely.
Another hospital was hit last night, 20 dead.
As Kerry says, this has gone way beyond 'mistakes'.
Oh, and Russia and Syria have ratified an agreement that allows Russian forces (that Putin withdrew in March) to stay on Syrian soil indefinitely.
John Kerry:
"How can people go sit at a table with a regime that bombs hospitals again and again and again".
Well Kerry seems to manage this just fine when it comes to his mates in Riyadh.
Calling for a war crime investigation into the recent civilian bombings in Syria is the right thing to do however will America be calling for a similar investigation into hospital and school bombings in Yemen?
"How can people go sit at a table with a regime that bombs hospitals again and again and again".
Well Kerry seems to manage this just fine when it comes to his mates in Riyadh.
Calling for a war crime investigation into the recent civilian bombings in Syria is the right thing to do however will America be calling for a similar investigation into hospital and school bombings in Yemen?
Driller said:
An alleged chemical weapons attack.
If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
I'm still waiting for this shocking and awful war crime to be commented on by the US seeing as how they're so concerned with humanitarian issues. They've obviously been a bit busy of late but I expext they'll investigate it soon.If Transmitter man and others are correct about the USA's reasons for stepping in to Syria to "protect the people" then I expect an immediate and noisy outcry from congress and in the media followed by lobbying at the UN and military intervention.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37497025
Cobnapint said:
The US wants Russia investigated for war crimes.
Another hospital was hit last night, 20 dead.
As Kerry says, this has gone way beyond 'mistakes'.
Oh, and Russia and Syria have ratified an agreement that allows Russian forces (that Putin withdrew in March) to stay on Syrian soil indefinitely.
"At mid-day on Wednesday, November 3, Democrat John Kerry conceded the election in a phone call to the White House. By Saturday, November 6, the assault on Falluja began. U.S. rockets took out their first target: the Hai Nazal Hospital, a new facility that was just about ready to open its doors. A spokesman for the First Marines Expeditionary Force said, “A hospital was not on the target list.” But there it is, reduced to a pile of rubble. Then on Sunday night the Special Forces stormed the Falluja General Hospital. They rounded up all the doctors, pushed them face down on the floor and handcuffed them with plastic straps behind their backs. With the hospital occupied, those wounded by the U.S. aerial bombings headed to the Falluja Central Health Clinic. And so at 5:30 a.m. on Tuesday, November 9, U.S. warplanes bombed that clinic as well, killing 35 patients, 15 medics, 4 nurses, 5 support staff and 4 doctors, according to a doctor who survived (The Nation, 13 December). U.S. fire also targeted an ambulance, killing five patients and the driver."Another hospital was hit last night, 20 dead.
As Kerry says, this has gone way beyond 'mistakes'.
Oh, and Russia and Syria have ratified an agreement that allows Russian forces (that Putin withdrew in March) to stay on Syrian soil indefinitely.
Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Saturday 8th October 10:26
QuantumTokoloshi said:
"At mid-day on Wednesday, November 3, Democrat John Kerry conceded the election in a phone call to the White House. By Saturday, November 6, the assault on Falluja began. U.S. rockets took out their first target: the Hai Nazal Hospital, a new facility that was just about ready to open its doors. A spokesman for the First Marines Expeditionary Force said, “A hospital was not on the target list.” But there it is, reduced to a pile of rubble. Then on Sunday night the Special Forces stormed the Falluja General Hospital. They rounded up all the doctors, pushed them face down on the floor and handcuffed them with plastic straps behind their backs. With the hospital occupied, those wounded by the U.S. aerial bombings headed to the Falluja Central Health Clinic. And so at 5:30 a.m. on Tuesday, November 9, U.S. warplanes bombed that clinic as well, killing 35 patients, 15 medics, 4 nurses, 5 support staff and 4 doctors, according to a doctor who survived (The Nation, 13 December). U.S. fire also targeted an ambulance, killing five patients and the driver."
Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
The biggest problem is people ignorant to the reality seem to think those who "support" the russian and syrian activities likewise support Russia and think they are saintly.Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Saturday 8th October 10:26
The reality is those like myself who think Russia and Syria are in the right in this situation think the Russians are bats
t crazy and untrustworthy BUT we can also see that they are trying to achieve the right result in Syria regardless of benefit to Russia in doing so because it is what the SYRIAN people want not what the American administration and Saudis want.The USA have been responsible directly and indirectly for the loss of millions of lives and the displacement of millions globally in their interference and determination to bring about their vision of world peace and regime change.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
"At mid-day on Wednesday, November 3, Democrat John Kerry conceded the election in a phone call to the White House. By Saturday, November 6, the assault on Falluja began. U.S. rockets took out their first target: the Hai Nazal Hospital, a new facility that was just about ready to open its doors. A spokesman for the First Marines Expeditionary Force said, “A hospital was not on the target list.” But there it is, reduced to a pile of rubble. Then on Sunday night the Special Forces stormed the Falluja General Hospital. They rounded up all the doctors, pushed them face down on the floor and handcuffed them with plastic straps behind their backs. With the hospital occupied, those wounded by the U.S. aerial bombings headed to the Falluja Central Health Clinic. And so at 5:30 a.m. on Tuesday, November 9, U.S. warplanes bombed that clinic as well, killing 35 patients, 15 medics, 4 nurses, 5 support staff and 4 doctors, according to a doctor who survived (The Nation, 13 December). U.S. fire also targeted an ambulance, killing five patients and the driver."
Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
Didn't know about that, but I'll confront it head on - it's bad, it's wrong and should never have happened.Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
But it doesn't make what the Syrians and Russians are doing 'right' either does it?
Cobnapint said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
"At mid-day on Wednesday, November 3, Democrat John Kerry conceded the election in a phone call to the White House. By Saturday, November 6, the assault on Falluja began. U.S. rockets took out their first target: the Hai Nazal Hospital, a new facility that was just about ready to open its doors. A spokesman for the First Marines Expeditionary Force said, “A hospital was not on the target list.” But there it is, reduced to a pile of rubble. Then on Sunday night the Special Forces stormed the Falluja General Hospital. They rounded up all the doctors, pushed them face down on the floor and handcuffed them with plastic straps behind their backs. With the hospital occupied, those wounded by the U.S. aerial bombings headed to the Falluja Central Health Clinic. And so at 5:30 a.m. on Tuesday, November 9, U.S. warplanes bombed that clinic as well, killing 35 patients, 15 medics, 4 nurses, 5 support staff and 4 doctors, according to a doctor who survived (The Nation, 13 December). U.S. fire also targeted an ambulance, killing five patients and the driver."
Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
Didn't know about that, but I'll confront it head on - it's bad, it's wrong and should never have happened.Is this Aleppo today? No it is Fallujah in 2004.
2 hospitals in 2 days, even the Russians have not hit that milestone. War crimes.. only for the nasty Russians. By your reasoning that must have been deliberate, WAR CRIME !!!! Nope, only for the Russians.
Oh look, another hospital hit.. those Highly accurate NATO PGMs seems to have an affinity for hospitals, don't they?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/348287.stm
Seems when the USA and NATO hit hospitals it is by accident, when Russia does it is deliberate. It might be nice if nobody bombed hospitals, don't you think?
It is not pleasant having to confront what has been done in your name.
But it doesn't make what the Syrians and Russians are doing 'right' either does it?
I am not excusing the Russians, these are people, like you and me who are being killed and maimed. hospitals should not be bombed, civilians should not be killed but the key question is who is our real enemy? Who is bombing Brussels, who is attacking Paris and Nice? They are our enemy, a clear and present enemy, and the source is not Syria or Russia, the source is Saudi and Co. Thy are as dangerous to Russia as us.
The armed fighters in Aleppo are our enemies, the West and NATO should not be arming them, supporting, training them, the blow back is already happening, ask the Parisians and people of Brussels. Ill considered interventions, under the guise of democracy and freedom, provides the fuel for the fire. Are the natural resources gained worth the current and future cost to us?
The UK and USA were fighting the same ideology in Fallujah as Assad and Putin are fighting in Allepo, yet are threatening war with a potential ally. Monty python does foreign policy.
Russia as a military ally, Russia as a energy supplier, Russia as security council permanent member makes more sense with us, considering they are facing the same enemy, makes more sense than an antagonistic relationship. They managed to get Assad to hand over his chemical weapons, without dropping a single bomb!
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Saturday 8th October 15:54
Oh look, the Saudis just bombed civilians at a funeral. No doubt the west will be outraged.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37598413
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37598413
Driller said:
Oh look, the Saudis just bombed civilians at a funeral. No doubt the west will be outraged.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37598413
A Houthi rebel family gathering.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-37598413
And how do you know it was the Saudis? Could have been one of eight other countries.
discusdave said:
so here we have S300 on the ground in Syria
and here we have USAF F16/18 including carrier based (the folding wings) in Russian colors ..
The F18 is used as part of 'aggressor' squadrons. and here we have USAF F16/18 including carrier based (the folding wings) in Russian colors ..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressor_squadron
or have I missed the point?
Maybe we are all going to hell in a hand cart, makes you think though ?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/717446/russia-...
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/717446/russia-...
Well is refreshing to see someone who has a grasp of the real situation. So respect to you QuantumTokoloshi.
It seems so many people, including some people on here, buy into the one sided carefully selected facts the British Bullst Corporation and the like pump out and just take it at face value.
I am not sure if I have posted this. But this is good overview of the situation.
https://medium.com/deepconnections/prevailing-gray...
It seems so many people, including some people on here, buy into the one sided carefully selected facts the British Bulls
t Corporation and the like pump out and just take it at face value.I am not sure if I have posted this. But this is good overview of the situation.
https://medium.com/deepconnections/prevailing-gray...
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