London Protests (riot) this weekend....

[rover 623gsi]

I suspect this won't illicit much sympathy on here, but hey ho...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-prot...

Activists say they were given repeated assurances by a chief inspector from the Metropolitan police that they would be shown to safety after the protest, which she described as non-violent and sensible. However, when protesters left the luxury Piccadilly store on police instruction, they were kettled, handcuffed and taken into custody.

Their claims are backed up by footage, obtained by the Guardian, showing that, rather than being asked to leave, the protesters inside the luxury food retailer were told they were being kept inside for their own safety.

[paddyhasneeds]

rover 623gsi said:

I suspect this won't illicit much sympathy on here, but hey ho...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-prot...

Activists say they were given repeated assurances by a chief inspector from the Metropolitan police that they would be shown to safety after the protest, which she described as non-violent and sensible. However, when protesters left the luxury Piccadilly store on police instruction, they were kettled, handcuffed and taken into custody.

Their claims are backed up by footage, obtained by the Guardian, showing that, rather than being asked to leave, the protesters inside the luxury food retailer were told they were being kept inside for their own safety.

You're right.

Honestly, Fortnum & Masons, if you can explain to me what occupying there has to do with "tory cuts" then fine, I might not agree but at least I might understand the thought process behind it, but I suspect even the most ardent lefty would struggle beyond "Erm, well it's a bit posh isn't it", which is pretty ironic as they all seem toe have typical working class names like Amelia, Jack or Thom.

[tinman0]

rover 623gsi said:

Activists say they were given repeated assurances by a chief inspector from the Metropolitan police that they would be shown to safety after the protest, which she described as non-violent and sensible. However, when protesters left the luxury Piccadilly store on police instruction, they were kettled, handcuffed and taken into custody.

Their claims are backed up by footage, obtained by the Guardian, showing that, rather than being asked to leave, the protesters inside the luxury food retailer were told they were being kept inside for their own safety.

I'm failing to see where the Police told a lie. Being escorted into custody can be described as "shown to safety". And keeping them inside (whilst sorting out an arresting line) is keeping them safe.

[Zod]

rover 623gsi said:

I suspect this won't illicit much sympathy on here, but hey ho...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-prot...

Activists say they were given repeated assurances by a chief inspector from the Metropolitan police that they would be shown to safety after the protest, which she described as non-violent and sensible. However, when protesters left the luxury Piccadilly store on police instruction, they were kettled, handcuffed and taken into custody.

Their claims are backed up by footage, obtained by the Guardian, showing that, rather than being asked to leave, the protesters inside the luxury food retailer were told they were being kept inside for their own safety.

And the graffiti all over the front of the shop? That wasn't criminal damage?

[rover 623gsi]

well I wasn't in London at the weekend as I have better things to do with my time, so I'm not sure what damage was and wasn't done.

However, watching the vid it appears that this particular group of protestors entered and left the building peacefully and seemed to have be having a good-natured conversation with a very helpful and calm female police officer. I suspect that if there is a next time these protestors won't believe a word they are told.

[DJC]

AndrewW-G said:

Continuing on in a slightly less interesting direction, what is the opinion of the "proper" engineers of the use of the Engineer title by other none traditional bodies, for example, I'm a fully paid up member of the British Computer Society, so get to use BSc/BEng & CEng as well as the half dozen other qualifications. . . . . . . . Does this make me an engineer, or simply another geek with too many letters after his name (even though I spend a large percentage of my time doing engineering type stuff!)

Edited by AndrewW-G on Tuesday 29th March 19:03

It makes you a bloody fool for tolerating the existence of such an incompetent bunch of half witted arseholic fools as the BCS. The sooner they are shunned into disbanding and the representation of the computing sciences can be taken over by folks who are even vaguely half useful the better for all concerned.

[DonkeyApple]

rover 623gsi said:

I suspect this won't illicit much sympathy on here, but hey ho...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-prot...

Activists say they were given repeated assurances by a chief inspector from the Metropolitan police that they would be shown to safety after the protest, which she described as non-violent and sensible. However, when protesters left the luxury Piccadilly store on police instruction, they were kettled, handcuffed and taken into custody.

Their claims are backed up by footage, obtained by the Guardian, showing that, rather than being asked to leave, the protesters inside the luxury food retailer were told they were being kept inside for their own safety.

I'd read that. Would appear to be a breakdown between two groups of police?

That's public servants for you

[munky]

bosscerbera said:

munky said:

bosscerbera said:

Winston's/Maggie's one-liners are both correct. Hurrah. But the problem with capitalism or, to be precise, the peculiar strain of free market capitalism in major English-speaking economies, is that it does not actually provide the "poor sod at the bottom" with anything to do. Which gives a crude insight into the perception of Tories making money and Socialists giving it away.

Today's problems are that so much money - not even "our money" anymore - has been given away, and so many people have nothing to do, that the wheels have well and truly come off the wagon.

As I see it, it's more that too often the poor sod at the bottom can't be arsed (sorry, couldn't resist) to do anything, even when there is plenty to do. Too often native Brits of the uneducated variety would rather be on the dole than take a job cleaning or serving hot drinks at a coffee emporium. Therefore, your cleaner or barista is likely to be of eastern european extraction, because there are plenty of them with a good work ethic. They wouldn't have travelled all this way and been followed by their friends if those vacancies did not exist, but they do exist because too many of our countrymen would rather watch Trisha and play x-box at our expense, and our elected representatives have been too willing to allow them.

I think you read The Mail.

Incorrect. I wouldn't wipe my arse with that filthy rag.

[brickwall]

rover 623gsi said:

I suspect this won't illicit much sympathy on here, but hey ho...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/28/cuts-prot...

Activists say they were given repeated assurances by a chief inspector from the Metropolitan police that they would be shown to safety after the protest, which she described as non-violent and sensible. However, when protesters left the luxury Piccadilly store on police instruction, they were kettled, handcuffed and taken into custody.

Their claims are backed up by footage, obtained by the Guardian, showing that, rather than being asked to leave, the protesters inside the luxury food retailer were told they were being kept inside for their own safety.

I've seen that. I don't have much sympathy for the occupiers, and nor do I think the police did anything 'wrong'. I do think however that this does no favours for the image of the police. Whilst Zod says they didn't lie (and I agree) - they clearly tried and intended to mislead.

[Zod]

Did I say that? I couldn't actually care less. If the Police did lie, what does that entitle the morons to do - wreck the place?

[elster]

brickwall said:

I've seen that. I don't have much sympathy for the occupiers, and nor do I think the police did anything 'wrong'. I do think however that this does no favours for the image of the police. Whilst Zod says they didn't lie (and I agree) - they clearly tried and intended to mislead.

It worked though, they cleared the building.

[brickwall]

Zod said:

Did I say that?

Oh sorry I've misread, it was the poster above you that said something akin to that. My mistake.

[davidspooner]

Derek Smith said:

DonkeyApple said:

We have an absolutely enormous number of bright kids going into software and tech and design etc. These are the kids who would have been inspired by ship building, cars, planes in our era (maybe byplanes in Dereks) but now what inspires them in their youth is modern tech.

A bit harsh I felt
[...]

Because of my maths qualifications, and my ability with mental maths, adding up 6-figure columns, I was put into navigation.
[...]
And quite rightly. Media studies: get the BBC to foot the bill.

I did politics and economics at university, and now work in the ecommerce industry. Even though my current role is on the marketing side of things, my two maths A-levels and the stats from the economics course are invaluable to performing my role well. I'm surprised when I meet people who will openly state they have little mathematical ability, but it seems to be quite acceptable.

[DonkeyApple]

Derek Smith said:

There was a bit on Radio 4 around lunch-time today where engineering students and graduates put their views. most said their career choices were looked down upon by their peers at uni.

That's just being gay though. Everyone looks down on everyone elses choices, its the cheapest and easiest way to justify your own descisions. It's not something any sensible person would whinge publicly about.

Derek Smith said:

My brother built his own radios, was/is brilliant with electronics, and I remember going into Maplins when his eldest lad was still a toddler, perhaps two and a half, and there was a billboard with the theoretical circuit of a transistor outside. His lad pointed to it and said: transistor. It was funny but not that unusual.

Right now, this evening, how many bright kids in crap schools are sitting at home creating electronic music or designing applications etc on computers? I would hazard that it is exactly as many who would have been playing with circuitry, mechano and other things from our era.

Derek Smith said:

It seemed that technology was exciting then and all my mates wanted in. I remember the awe in which we listened to the beep from Sputnik. everyone in my class wanted to be an astronaught. It's probably a lawyer nowadays.

The kids who are wanting to be lawyers today are the same as the kids who wanted to be lawyers decades ago. Sputnik is a pile of backward crap that does nothing and is immensely boring to almost anyone growing up in today's world. Some may, when older, recognise it for what it was but in essence it's a pointless, clumsy product. Kids in the past may have been listening to Sputnik but the same type of kids are not just listening to today's tech they are taking part in and creating it.

Derek Smith said:

I'm all for cutting the subsidies to university students. But we should leave them in place for the ones that stand some chance of being useful.

I went to art college and found it exciting and really fascinating. But my company paid for that.

And quite rightly. Media studies: get the BBC to foot the bill.

But again, we do need media studies graduates. Understanding and being at the forefront of modern media is essential. In its most basic form understanding how to market the products we need to be selling is essential.

What is required is a throttling back of the use of certain degrees as an excuse to hide from work for 3 years on a state/parent sponsored jolly.


I think many people of the older persuasion are moaning about the decline in engineering etc but failing to understand that the world has moved forward and kids of 11 are sitting at home breezing through things that we could barely get our heads around at 21.

Bright kids are like well behaved kids, you never see them. You only ever notice the dumb and bad.

The world that modern kids are growing up in is a million miles away from the world that the Baby Boomers grew up in and just because it is different, it doesn't mean it's bad, it just means that old people have done exactly what they ranted at their parents and grandparents for doing: Not kept up with the ever evolving world.

[davepoth]

DonkeyApple said:

But again, we do need media studies graduates. Understanding and being at the forefront of modern media is essential. In its most basic form understanding how to market the products we need to be selling is essential.

What is required is a throttling back of the use of certain degrees as an excuse to hide from work for 3 years on a state/parent sponsored jolly.


I think many people of the older persuasion are moaning about the decline in engineering etc but failing to understand that the world has moved forward and kids of 11 are sitting at home breezing through things that we could barely get our heads around at 21.

Bright kids are like well behaved kids, you never see them. You only ever notice the dumb and bad.

The world that modern kids are growing up in is a million miles away from the world that the Baby Boomers grew up in and just because it is different, it doesn't mean it's bad, it just means that old people have done exactly what they ranted at their parents and grandparents for doing: Not kept up with the ever evolving world.

Media studies would be great if it actually taught anybody something useful, like how to work a digital editing suite, build a website, manage a recording artist in the modern world, run a blog, or any of those useful skills. It doesn't in the main; it's really "media sociology" and, like sociology itself, only really prepares graduates for lecturing in media studies.

With any "non-vocational" degree, the focus should be on developing critical thinking skills (such as those provided by the Philosophy, Politics and Economics courses taught at Oxbridge) and unfortunately the huge numbers of students on these courses, and the resultant low contact hours, prevent this from occurring.

[DJC]

davepoth said:

Media studies would be great if it actually taught anybody something useful, like how to work a digital editing suite, build a website, manage a recording artist in the modern world, run a blog, or any of those useful skills. It doesn't in the main; it's really "media sociology" and, like sociology itself, only really prepares graduates for lecturing in media studies.

With any "non-vocational" degree, the focus should be on developing critical thinking skills (such as those provided by the Philosophy, Politics and Economics courses taught at Oxbridge) and unfortunately the huge numbers of students on these courses, and the resultant low contact hours, prevent this from occurring.

Ah, a lack of understanding how such things work there Im afraid.

There should be relatively little contact needed with tutors. A cpl of seminars a week, cpl of lectures, job done. The rest of the time the student should be doing their work. One is afterall supposed to "read" for their degree, not be taught it, i.e. the student does the majority of work, research and effort, with minimal contact with a tutor.

I used to see my personal tutor twice a semester. University should not be about handholding but learning how to wing it on your own.

[davepoth]

DJC said:

Ah, a lack of understanding how such things work there Im afraid.

There should be relatively little contact needed with tutors. A cpl of seminars a week, cpl of lectures, job done. The rest of the time the student should be doing their work. One is afterall supposed to "read" for their degree, not be taught it, i.e. the student does the majority of work, research and effort, with minimal contact with a tutor.

I used to see my personal tutor twice a semester. University should not be about handholding but learning how to wing it on your own.

Been there, done that, got the degree, realised that an awful lot of doing an undergraduate degree is not about reading around the subject at all. Lecturers often supply references with the lecture notes, there are usually course books suggested, and as a result it's quite possible to leave university with a not bad degree after only reading what you were told to read, and that generally means regurgitating what the lecturer said in the book they wrote. And there were other assignments, such as map digitisation, which were very much like being at school.

So I didn't really engage in that too much. I enjoyed writing my dissertation, but what I really enjoyed doing was spending most of my days in the Library reading books from someone else's course because it allowed me to plough my own furrow in terms of what I wanted to read about. So as a result I can't remember much about ocean floor sediment flow, but I do remember quite a lot of Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass.