Japan Fukushima nuclear thread

[hidetheelephants]

Rice grown in Fukushima prefecture has gone on sale in Singapore, reportedly because their food standards enforcement is very strict; initial sales are brisk.

[Impasse]

Boiled in the bag?

[slartibartfast]

Impasse said:

Boiled in the bag?

No, microwave in the bag

[Crusoe]

Looks like it might be hit by the super typhoon too

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141004/193667366/Fukushim...

[hidetheelephants]

Crusoe said:

Looks like it might be hit by the super typhoon too

http://en.ria.ru/world/20141004/193667366/Fukushim...

Speculative handwringing filled with might, could and possibly.

[V8 Fettler]

Have they not cleared this mess up yet? Someone from Sellafield needs to pitch a truly monstrous price to pick up the pieces after the Yanks (designers) and the Japanese have so demonstrably failed to reach the required level of expertise.

[Talksteer]

V8 Fettler said:

Have they not cleared this mess up yet? Someone from Sellafield needs to pitch a truly monstrous price to pick up the pieces after the Yanks (designers) and the Japanese have so demonstrably failed to reach the required level of expertise.

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

The UK input to Fukushima is adopt our regulatory structure, unfortunately the horse has somewhat bolted.

[Scuffers]

Kind of ironic when you consider who we sold our nuclear expertise to.

[V8 Fettler]

Talksteer said:

V8 Fettler said:

Have they not cleared this mess up yet? Someone from Sellafield needs to pitch a truly monstrous price to pick up the pieces after the Yanks (designers) and the Japanese have so demonstrably failed to reach the required level of expertise.

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

The UK input to Fukushima is adopt our regulatory structure, unfortunately the horse has somewhat bolted.

Unmatched ability to undertake R&D following construction. Not always a good thing in a controlled environment, but essential in an environment where reactive solutions are required.

The key is the monstrous price, but perhaps the risk element is too high.

[Scuffers]

V8 Fettler said:

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

that's a little unfair...

Windscale fire was very much in the early days of nuclear research and nothing to do with power generation.

as for why so long to clean it up, well, I would suggest that was mostly a political decision to keep kicking it down the road.

[V8 Fettler]

Scuffers said:

V8 Fettler said:

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

that's a little unfair...

Windscale fire was very much in the early days of nuclear research and nothing to do with power generation.

as for why so long to clean it up, well, I would suggest that was mostly a political decision to keep kicking it down the road.

Wrong quote

[kingofdbrits]

Talksteer said:

V8 Fettler said:

Have they not cleared this mess up yet? Someone from Sellafield needs to pitch a truly monstrous price to pick up the pieces after the Yanks (designers) and the Japanese have so demonstrably failed to reach the required level of expertise.

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

The UK input to Fukushima is adopt our regulatory structure, unfortunately the horse has somewhat bolted.

When i was building a nuclear waste store 2 people from Fukashima came over to see what we we're doing as the route we're going down is industry leading while also being (fairly) cost effective, easy to build & maintain and does provide a long term solution to transport & storage of the waste.
Even the Americans like what we're doing, so much so they just bought the company.

So the UK does have knowledge & expertise to help Japan.

[Scuffers]

V8 Fettler said:

Scuffers said:

V8 Fettler said:

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

that's a little unfair...

Windscale fire was very much in the early days of nuclear research and nothing to do with power generation.

as for why so long to clean it up, well, I would suggest that was mostly a political decision to keep kicking it down the road.

Wrong quote

Ohps!

sorry!

[hidetheelephants]

Scuffers said:

Talksteer said:

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

The UK input to Fukushima is adopt our regulatory structure, unfortunately the horse has somewhat bolted.

that's a little unfair...

Windscale fire was very much in the early days of nuclear research and nothing to do with power generation.

as for why so long to clean it up, well, I would suggest that was mostly a political decision to keep kicking it down the road.

Once upon a time the preferred method for dealing with with things like Windscale was to remove the HLW where possible, seal everything else up and leave it to decay for an indefinite period(20-40 years), presumably until whizzo new technology for dismantling is invented. Not a bad method even today if the structure can be kept weatherproof, which has been a critical problem with Chernobyl and will be solved by the big tin shed.

[eldar]

Talksteer said:

Given we have no BWR plants and our one experience of cleaning up a reactor with a core disruptive accident (Windscale 1957) is still going on plus on a per KW our nuclear dedecommissioning costs are probably the highest. I'm not entirely sure what UK nuclear is going to contribute.

The UK input to Fukushima is adopt our regulatory structure, unfortunately the horse has somewhat bolted.

I can see Pile 1 chimney - the one that caught fire - from my bedroom window. The cleanup aside from the reactor finished ages ago, just routine monitoring.

Nuclear is good for baseload. Part of the balance of generation.

See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/decc-el... for costs.

ie Nuclear £90/MWh, Onshore wind £100/MWH, Offhore £110/£120 / MWh.

[llewop]

hidetheelephants said:

.... the big tin shed.

...is progressing well, despite the difficulties at the other end of the country:



must confess I doubt a similar solution would work at Fukushima - one slight saving grace at Chernobyl was the accident was at the end of the row of reactors, which at least meant access to it was easier!

[Crusoe]

http://enenews.com/radiation-levels-surge-fukushim...

Some nice extras to dump into the sea.

Arnie Gundersen said:

Oct. 27, 2014 (4:00 in): These typhoons come along and dump 10″ of rain… in a very short time. In addition to the 300 tons [a day] that’s normally leaking, now there’s a lot more. All of the trenches that connect different parts of the plant are now overflowing and leaking into the ground… The plant is continuing to bleed directly into the Pacific, day in and day out. Whenever you get an excessive rainfall, essentially it pops an artery and flows even more 100s of tons into the Pacific. It’s not a problem that’s going to go away… Fukushima is so radioactive; no one has gotten near [the reactor cores] yet. We don’t even know where the nuclear reactor core is — let alone try and stop it leaking into the groundwater. It’s a real mess…. It’s not just cesium, cesium is bad enough… but because the nuclear cores melted down, what we’ve got now is strontium, which is a really bad chemical — it’s a bone seeker that causes all sorts of cancers — but also plutonium. The nuclear reactor has breached and we’re getting plutonium in the groundwater… essentially pieces of the nuclear fuel… the reactor has been breached and the reactor containment has been breached. Most of that breach is in the form of liquid radiation leaking out…

Edited by Crusoe on Thursday 30th October 12:40

[hidetheelephants]

Arnie Gundersen said:

Oct. 27, 2014 (4:00 in): These typhoons come along and dump 10? of rain… in a very short time. In addition to the 300 tons [a day] that’s normally leaking, now there’s a lot more. All of the trenches that connect different parts of the plant are now overflowing and leaking into the ground… The plant is continuing to bleed directly into the Pacific, day in and day out. Whenever you get an excessive rainfall, essentially it pops an artery and flows even more 100s of tons into the Pacific. It’s not a problem that’s going to go away… Fukushima is so radioactive; no one has gotten near [the reactor cores] yet. We don’t even know where the nuclear reactor core is — let alone try and stop it leaking into the groundwater. It’s a real mess…. It’s not just cesium, cesium is bad enough… but because the nuclear cores melted down, what we’ve got now is strontium, which is a really bad chemical — it’s a bone seeker that causes all sorts of cancers — but also plutonium. The nuclear reactor has breached and we’re getting plutonium in the groundwater… essentially pieces of the nuclear fuel… the reactor has been breached and the reactor containment has been breached. Most of that breach is in the form of liquid radiation leaking out…

Gundersen is a tinfoil hattist of the first water, why any sane person would pay attention to anything he utters is beyond me. There is little if any evidence that the cores are anywhere other than where TEPCO left them, which is inside the pressure vessels. They certainly melted to differing degrees, but that appears to be where it stopped.

[Sway]

Just found out my BiL, who lived within sight of the plant, has just been told he's got 6-12 months to live...

He moved to Vietnam pretty much as soon as he could after the tsunami, and had a pretty bad stroke a year later.

Has been back in the UK for 2 years, where the they've been very confused by his bloodwork etc., once my SiL let them know where he had been it apparently all fell into place.

Likely to experience more strokes and has big problems with his bone marrow.

I'm a proponent of nuclear power (well aware of the relative numbers of deaths etc. compared to other power sources) but it's brought something that had been very abstract very close to home...

[Gary C]

Sway said:

Just found out my BiL, who lived within sight of the plant, has just been told he's got 6-12 months to live...

He moved to Vietnam pretty much as soon as he could after the tsunami, and had a pretty bad stroke a year later.

Has been back in the UK for 2 years, where the they've been very confused by his bloodwork etc., once my SiL let them know where he had been it apparently all fell into place.

Likely to experience more strokes and has big problems with his bone marrow.

I'm a proponent of nuclear power (well aware of the relative numbers of deaths etc. compared to other power sources) but it's brought something that had been very abstract very close to home...

Don't want to sound insensitive, so apologies it's not meant to be. Working in a nuclear plant I am all to aware of the effects of radiation.

Brother in law married to your sister in law ? Just to be sure this is not scaremongering.

Sorry again as it probably genuine mistake and I don't want to upset anyone but please clarify.