Japan Fukushima nuclear thread

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Discussion

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Nope, brother of my partner, divorced from his Japanese missus, now living with my OH's sister in the UK.

No scaremongering, as said in my post I'm a supporter of nuclear power.

grumbledoak

31,500 posts

232 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Awful news for your BiL.

Presumably there are gong to be thousands similarly affected, then? That will probably kill nuclear power for my lifetime.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Have no idea. He moved to Vietnam pretty sharpish after the tsunami, as he didn't trust the local authorities statements when comparing to worldwide news reports/etc. All along the stated that there was zero risk, even very close to the plant. He says that the locals take everything they're told at face value, and so it was considered odd that he'd move... As I understand it there was no assessment/monitoring/treatment (aren't iodine tablets recommended soon after any exposure?). Just told everything is fine and carry on as usual.

Had a massive stroke a couple of months later whilst in 'nam, hence living with SiL after medevac to the UK. Because of the disconnect it's taken a long while for the connection to radiation exposure, and a proper diagnosis. Understandably so, I can't imagine it'd be the first question you'd ask as a medic in Luton.

llewop

3,585 posts

210 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Sway said:
(aren't iodine tablets recommended soon after any exposure?).
Soon after a release or suspected release or occasionally even before a potential release. But only from an operating reactor - radioactive iodines are mostly short lived fission products, so only produced whilst at power and decay fairly quickly once there is no significant level of fission going on. The iodine tablets are intended to flood the thyroid with stable iodine and therefore block the radioactive iodines, which means they'll then be excreted and therefore there will be less dose.

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Sway said:
Have no idea. He moved to Vietnam pretty sharpish after the tsunami, as he didn't trust the local authorities statements when comparing to worldwide news reports/etc. All along the stated that there was zero risk, even very close to the plant. He says that the locals take everything they're told at face value, and so it was considered odd that he'd move... As I understand it there was no assessment/monitoring/treatment (aren't iodine tablets recommended soon after any exposure?). Just told everything is fine and carry on as usual.

Had a massive stroke a couple of months later whilst in 'nam, hence living with SiL after medevac to the UK. Because of the disconnect it's taken a long while for the connection to radiation exposure, and a proper diagnosis. Understandably so, I can't imagine it'd be the first question you'd ask as a medic in Luton.
Are the media aware of this?

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Sway said:
Nope, brother of my partner, divorced from his Japanese missus, now living with my OH's sister in the UK.

No scaremongering, as said in my post I'm a supporter of nuclear power.
Sorry, just seemed odd. I would like to wish him well, but I understandhow hollow that must sound.

My apologies.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
V8 - No. Firstly, not the sort of thing we'd typically consider. The damage is done, regardless. Also, after the stroke his speech/movement is heavily impacted (although his ability to understand is unaffected). There's plenty of people posting stuff online about the Japanese approach, no need to add to that.

Gary, no worries, I realise that my first post reads odd!

He's decided that he's going to go through with the treatment (you'll have to forgive me if you want much detail - my knowledge comes via BiL, SiL and OH, and I'm not going to go direct to someone I don't know too well to be able to give detailed info to the Internet!).

From what I understand, regular blood taking is being done (iirc he has far too much white blood cells which need to be removed to more 'normal' levels). Chemo isn't being done I don't think, but there is some form of more direct treatment being considered, what that is I'm not sure.

They've told him that it's going to be pretty nasty either way, with the treatment likely to give him another six months - which gives him one more opportunity to see his Japanese daughter. Hence he's going through it.

Incidentally, his daughter is part of a (I'm told massive) girl pop group in Japan. She was over here visiting her dad a couple of months ago, and brought her single (which was top ten at the time). Pictures of half a dozen 'Japanese schoolgirls' all over the CD. She told me that kids don't really buy her songs, it's mainly middle aged men!

hairykrishna

13,159 posts

202 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Not being funny but has a medical professional told your BiL that his health problems are likely to be a result of him recieving a large radiation dose? Or is this a conclusion he's reached on his own?

I ask because, as far as I'm aware, nobody recieved a dose high enough to show acute effects. Not even people who were working in the plant.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Yes. They've been taking blood for a while now, and not understanding the results.

It's only since the docs have found out that he lived so close to the plant that they've diagnosed him and figured out how to provide treatment.

Prior to that, it was just more and more testing and monitoring as they couldn't understand why his body wasn't responding to things that would normally improve his blood work.

I've just asked the better half - he has polycythaemia rubra vera (apologies, excess of red blood cells they're looking to remove). The docs are calling it 'blood cancer', and are stating the trigger was radiation exposure. Along with the removal of 'excess blood' they're giving him drugs to suppress his bone marrow. He's been told this is the cause of his initial massive stroke, and the subsequent minor ones he's had since coming back to the UK.

I understand the scepticism - there's plenty of whack jobs out there attributing anything and everything to 'radiation'.

This really isn't the case here...

As to the source of the radiation, I don't know. Where he was there was no bottled water/sanitation/anything for a couple of weeks. They were drinking water from roof gutters/puddles, eating anything they could find, and so on. From what he's told me it was hell, and there was very little aid support for the people of the town he lived in. My understanding is that he was within a mile or two of the plant. I've only spoken with him since his return to the UK, where his speech has been heavily limited - most of my understanding is through either yes/no questions, or him having the patience to struggle to form the words to explain things more clearly.

I'd love to be told that it's completely unrelated to Fukushima. After all, his daughter still lives close to the plant. I'd also welcome the removal of yet another 'cause' that people who'd rather we lived in caves can latch onto...

hidetheelephants

23,772 posts

192 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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If he did drink rainwater collected from roofs etc then it's feasible he took enough of a dose to give chronic problems, perhaps exacerbated by other latent health conditions or age-related infirmity. Strontium and caesium are calcium analogues, so if they are ingested will make a beeline for the bones and stay there merrily irradiating your bone marrow.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Monday 24th November 11:53

hairykrishna

13,159 posts

202 months

Monday 24th November 2014
quotequote all
I thought that everyone within a few miles was evacuated more or less straight away.

If he has recieved a dose that's given him aucte poisoning symptoms then it should be being widely publised right now as there are likely to be many thousands of other people with unexplained symptoms who need urgent treatment. I am somewhat surprised that the doctors involved have not made it front page news for precisely that reason.

Sway

26,070 posts

193 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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No evacuation happened where he was. Certainly within ten miles - he could see the plant from his bedroom window...

Bottled water ran out after two days. There was a couple of week period where they were drinking anything they could.

As for the doctors - would a British doctor worry about publicising it? It's 'only' because he moved as quickly as he could to Vietnam and then the UK that it's taken this long to be identified. Would they not assume (as I do) that those that stayed behind are being looked at completely differently to how a Brit going into a UK hospital presenting these symptoms?

Happy to suggest to my BiL that he contacts the press - as long as there's a valid reason to do so. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to inform a supranational monitoring body, if such a thing exists?

rovermorris999

5,195 posts

188 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Sorry to hear about this but polycythaemia rubra vera occurs in about 2 in 100,000 people according to Wikipedia and other medical websites and a propensity to developing it can be inherited. To say definitively that it has been caused by his exposure to radiation in Japan would I have thought be difficult as there are many causes.
Best wishes and fingers crossed that treatment and good luck may prove the prognosis wrong.

Gary C

12,313 posts

178 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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rovermorris999 said:
Sorry to hear about this but polycythaemia rubra vera occurs in about 2 in 100,000 people according to Wikipedia and other medical websites and a propensity to developing it can be inherited. To say definitively that it has been caused by his exposure to radiation in Japan would I have thought be difficult as there are many causes.
Best wishes and fingers crossed that treatment and good luck may prove the prognosis wrong.
This is the problem with radiation exposure. When doses are low enough to avoid the obvious early effects, then it's a game of chance. Some people can receive largish doses and suffer no medium term effects while others can receive smaller doses and have serious health effects , but even then you can't 'definitely' say it's down to the exposure only that is more or less likely dependant on the received dose.

Fukushima never needed to be as bad as it was, if the infrastructure had not been so damaged that there was no organised response before it was too late.

rovermorris999

5,195 posts

188 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Indeed and there is also a confusion that arises in the general public's mind regarding radiation and that's the 'dose' that is received. A dose of ionising radiation received externally is one thing, ingesting small particulates of an ionising substance is another. Unless the external exposure is large then the internal scenario is far more concerning.

The Don of Croy

5,976 posts

158 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Sway said:
Happy to suggest to my BiL that he contacts the press - as long as there's a valid reason to do so. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to inform a supranational monitoring body, if such a thing exists?
Given that our local news is generally stuffed with almost totally inconsequential garbage I'd think any UK news source would give their right arm for nuke based cancer story.

My apologies for the flippancy - but you probably get my gist.

Who knows which agency might pick up on the story from there? Having said that, a trawl of the Grauniad website revealed no current Fukushima cancer epidemic report. Does your BiL know any of his former neighbours and how they have fared?

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

131 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Sway said:
V8 - No. Firstly, not the sort of thing we'd typically consider.
I suggest that you have a duty to all exposed to radiation at Fukushima to contact the media about this, the facts need to be out in the open.

hairykrishna

13,159 posts

202 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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I’ve been struggling (and possibly failing) to think of a way of posting without seeming like an insensitive ahole.

This story seems really odd. Specifically the presentation of the story that some clinician went “Oh? Fukushima? We should test for polycythaemia rubra”. If things are really unfolding like this then it really should be global news. Nobody is expecting any detectable effects in people who were healthy adults, not at the plant, at the time of the accident. Certainly nothing dramatic is expected in people who were living far enough away to not be within the 20km zone that was evacuated within a few days. Beyond some beta burns to clean up workers there have been no acute poisoning cases reported and if your BiL is presenting advanced symptoms now then he’s basically an acute case.

The idea that a doctor would diagnose this, then shrug and carry on about his day as if this is something that should be expected is just bizarre to me. It absolutely should be reported as there are likely to be thousands of other people who need treatment and aren’t yet presenting symptoms. They need to be aware that they're at risk because, at the moment, they don't know.

The first place to ask if anything is being done about it is probably the hospital he’s being treated at.


Edited by hairykrishna on Tuesday 25th November 11:12

PZR

627 posts

184 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Sway said:
As to the source of the radiation, I don't know. Where he was there was no bottled water/sanitation/anything for a couple of weeks. They were drinking water from roof gutters/puddles, eating anything they could find, and so on. From what he's told me it was hell, and there was very little aid support for the people of the town he lived in. My understanding is that he was within a mile or two of the plant. I've only spoken with him since his return to the UK, where his speech has been heavily limited - most of my understanding is through either yes/no questions, or him having the patience to struggle to form the words to explain things more clearly.
Like others, I don't want to sound insensitive or unsympathetic but some of what I'm reading isn't really adding up.

If he was living so close to the plant (you say within a mile or two) he should have been one of the first to be evacuated/advised to leave. On the same day as the earthquake (11th March) the area 20km around the Fukushima Daiichi plant was designated a full evacuation zone. If he stayed within that zone for any length of time afterwards it's not surprising that he experienced very little in the way of aid.

Our (Japanese) nephew was living and working in Tomioka at the time, and he and his colleagues were out of there within hours.



NerveAgent

3,293 posts

219 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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So who is going to be the first to say what were are all thinking? wink