Japan Fukushima nuclear thread
Discussion
Crusoe said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-2377...
Quite impressive the time lapse water container construction. Obviously following the don't know what to do lets cover it in as much water as possible solution.
Quite impressive the time lapse water container construction. Obviously following the don't know what to do lets cover it in as much water as possible solution.
If there's another earthquake all that water in tanks could rush down the hill and sweep a lot (more) of stuff into the sea.
Our main protection appears to be the size of the Pacific.
Mojocvh said:
eldar said:
Why contempt for facts? The quake/tsunami killed at least 20,000 people and devastated communities.
The reactors failed catastrophically, just about as badly as can be realistically imagined. Major leaks of hazardous contaminants. Yet no one at the plant or the surrounding areas was killed or seriously injured. Which demonstrated the design of the plant - the ultimate backup - is intrinsically fail safe in terms of containing the fissile and highly dangerous materials and safeguarding the public.
Er, containment??The reactors failed catastrophically, just about as badly as can be realistically imagined. Major leaks of hazardous contaminants. Yet no one at the plant or the surrounding areas was killed or seriously injured. Which demonstrated the design of the plant - the ultimate backup - is intrinsically fail safe in terms of containing the fissile and highly dangerous materials and safeguarding the public.
As for the casualties - total bulls
t. People died due to this accident, anyone claiming otherwise is deluded. There is great political pressure for nuclear casualties to be under-reported, like at Chernobyl, that pressure doesn't however stop them dying.Lets face it, if you were the Japanese company Tepco, which direction would you be spinning?
Meanwhile the materials involved in the storage tanks of all kinds will be slowly eaten away by the radiation - nothing at the plant is going to get better, the leaks can only get worse and more frequent, keeping the fuel assemblies covered is the best we can hope for.
V8 Fettler said:
How many people have died as a direct result of exposure to increased levels of radiation resulting from the Fukushima incident?
How many people are forecast to die as a direct result of exposure to increased levels of radiation resulting from the Fukushima incident?
It's the indirect results that kill the most people.How many people are forecast to die as a direct result of exposure to increased levels of radiation resulting from the Fukushima incident?
V8 Fettler said:
Globs said:
It's the indirect results that kill the most people.
So not as a direct result of increased radioactivity then?I guess to you, all the difference in the world, to the victim: I'm not sure I see a difference. Do you?
V8 Fettler said:
Globs said:
Whats the difference between being killed on the night from acute radiation poisoning or from cancer caused by contamination several months later?
I guess to you, all the difference in the world, to the victim: I'm not sure I see a difference. Do you?
Just trying to get the facts straight. Why would that be a problem?I guess to you, all the difference in the world, to the victim: I'm not sure I see a difference. Do you?
Why would that be a problem?
But I'm sure you are right, and all the billions spent on nuclear safety and radiation detectors is unnecessary. 'Experts' eh! Tsk!
Personally I think they ought to start by re-introducing radium on watch and clock dials, it was so much better. Bloody health and safety.
Mojocvh said:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/09/1...
A magnitude-5.3 earthquake has hit the Japanese prefecture that is home to the nuclear power plant crippled in the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami.
[quote]Officials have acknowledged that radiation-contaminated groundwater has been seeping into the Pacific Ocean since soon after the meltdowns.A magnitude-5.3 earthquake has hit the Japanese prefecture that is home to the nuclear power plant crippled in the March 2011 earthquake and tsunami.
We should be thankful that the Pacific is so vast, but on the west coast of the US I'd be checking fish with a geiger counter now and again.
I suspect the EPA is already doing this, but I have not heard of any of the results.
Another leak:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2442331/Fu...
I'm not seeing a very big secondary barrier there, if an earthquake splits one of those tanks the contents are not going to stay in that area for very long.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2442331/Fu...
I'm not seeing a very big secondary barrier there, if an earthquake splits one of those tanks the contents are not going to stay in that area for very long.
supersingle said:
Looks like they could do with a few tins of Hammerite for those tanks unless they are only for really short term use.
The first glance at that and I thought 'Why are they using wood?', but now I'm wondering if wood might last longer!!I wonder where the rainwater drains to?
Good link! Doesn't look good, but it does sadly read as 'likely to be true':
http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/10/column-tepco-is...
Sounds about right to me. Tepco couldn't run the plant properly before the earthquake so why people think they suddenly became more competent afterwards is a mystery. Like I said before we are lucky the Pacific is do big, because that's where all this water is going to end up.
http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/10/column-tepco-is...
Iori_Mochizuki said:
The symbolic moment was when Tepco’s spokesman said
“I don’t know much either.”.
The press went mad and said “You are standing there not even understanding the situation, that’s why your explanation doesn’t make any sense.”.
Contaminated water is increasing every minute, every second, infinitely.
Japanese Prime Minister Abe told IOC that contaminated water is blocked, but that was obviously a lie.
Tepco and Japanese government are placing the multiple nuclide removing system “ALPS” as the last hope. They make every plan on the assumption that it works.
In reality, it hasn’t worked.
In the end of September, it stopped. and today, it stopped again.
The statement above was made in the press conference about latest failure of the last hope ALPS. The press asked the spokesman about the detailed situation of the problem and he answered that way.
Yesterday, they had another leakage of a tank and the contaminated water went to the sea straight away.
Tons of the problems are coming out day after day. Every time they have the new problem, they hold the press conference.
Each press conference lasts for 2 ~ 4 hours. It is very long but the answers from Tepco don’t make sense.
Fukushima decommissioning is something that must be done by military. Hopefully by multinational force. This is not something that a company can handle.
From watching their press conference and all the releases for 2 years and a half, I realized why their explanation doesn’t make sense. They are obviously avoiding a specific phrase.
It’s -
We can’t do it. / It’s impossible.
Tepco is trying to blackout this phrase from every sentence. That’s why their announcement is strangely long and completely meaningless.
I don’t know why they have to blackout this phrase. I don’t know what organization, what power is prohibiting them from saying they can’t do it.
I saw Nuclear Regulation Authority told Tepco, “Please tell us Give up if it’s impossible anymore.”. so at least it’s not NRA.
Recently every handout of Tepco has errors (in Plural). Tepco is seriously falling into pieces.
“I don’t know much either.”.
The press went mad and said “You are standing there not even understanding the situation, that’s why your explanation doesn’t make any sense.”.
Contaminated water is increasing every minute, every second, infinitely.
Japanese Prime Minister Abe told IOC that contaminated water is blocked, but that was obviously a lie.
Tepco and Japanese government are placing the multiple nuclide removing system “ALPS” as the last hope. They make every plan on the assumption that it works.
In reality, it hasn’t worked.
In the end of September, it stopped. and today, it stopped again.
The statement above was made in the press conference about latest failure of the last hope ALPS. The press asked the spokesman about the detailed situation of the problem and he answered that way.
Yesterday, they had another leakage of a tank and the contaminated water went to the sea straight away.
Tons of the problems are coming out day after day. Every time they have the new problem, they hold the press conference.
Each press conference lasts for 2 ~ 4 hours. It is very long but the answers from Tepco don’t make sense.
Fukushima decommissioning is something that must be done by military. Hopefully by multinational force. This is not something that a company can handle.
From watching their press conference and all the releases for 2 years and a half, I realized why their explanation doesn’t make sense. They are obviously avoiding a specific phrase.
It’s -
We can’t do it. / It’s impossible.
Tepco is trying to blackout this phrase from every sentence. That’s why their announcement is strangely long and completely meaningless.
I don’t know why they have to blackout this phrase. I don’t know what organization, what power is prohibiting them from saying they can’t do it.
I saw Nuclear Regulation Authority told Tepco, “Please tell us Give up if it’s impossible anymore.”. so at least it’s not NRA.
Recently every handout of Tepco has errors (in Plural). Tepco is seriously falling into pieces.
Sounds about right to me. Tepco couldn't run the plant properly before the earthquake so why people think they suddenly became more competent afterwards is a mystery. Like I said before we are lucky the Pacific is do big, because that's where all this water is going to end up.
Nearly half of 350 contaminated water tanks can’t even last for 5 years
http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/10/nearly-half-of-...
In the map below, red represents the tanks that can last for 5 years. Blue represents the tanks that can’t last for 5 years.
Sounds down to the usual Tepco standards so entirely believable.
ETA fixed key!
http://fukushima-diary.com/2013/10/nearly-half-of-...
In the map below, red represents the tanks that can last for 5 years. Blue represents the tanks that can’t last for 5 years.
Sounds down to the usual Tepco standards so entirely believable.
ETA fixed key!
Edited by Globs on Friday 11th October 14:46
dilbert said:
OK, so this is all really polite and stuff;
...But is there any possibility that it would be better to let the thing melt down into the core of the planet where it could join with all the other nuclear materials that the planet is made of?
I mean at the moment, we're dowsing it in water which ends up terribly contaminated. The containers aren't big enough. By various means, the water leaches into the sea, or otherwise remains at the surface where it contaminates all the biological stuff that also exists there. At least there's nothing biological deep in the earth's crust to contaminate.
If it were allowed to melt down, how quickly would it be gone?
If that's not fast enough, could it be accelerated?
Whoever suggested freezing the ground seems nuts.
Maybe they could use a nuclear reactor to move that much energy.
Did anyone ever explain that rationale? Perhaps it was another of those "Marbles" moments that happened when the gulf oil well failed? I'm just trying to remember what they said..... It was something like;
"I know, we'll use crisp packet wrappers. That'll work, surely!!!"
I'm afraid I have to do a double take at this point and just think "Is this getting worse, or better?"
I'm not sure they have _any_ control over the cores whatsoever TBH....But is there any possibility that it would be better to let the thing melt down into the core of the planet where it could join with all the other nuclear materials that the planet is made of?
I mean at the moment, we're dowsing it in water which ends up terribly contaminated. The containers aren't big enough. By various means, the water leaches into the sea, or otherwise remains at the surface where it contaminates all the biological stuff that also exists there. At least there's nothing biological deep in the earth's crust to contaminate.
If it were allowed to melt down, how quickly would it be gone?
If that's not fast enough, could it be accelerated?
Whoever suggested freezing the ground seems nuts.
Maybe they could use a nuclear reactor to move that much energy.
Did anyone ever explain that rationale? Perhaps it was another of those "Marbles" moments that happened when the gulf oil well failed? I'm just trying to remember what they said..... It was something like;
"I know, we'll use crisp packet wrappers. That'll work, surely!!!"
I'm afraid I have to do a double take at this point and just think "Is this getting worse, or better?"
I think they just pour water into the hole and collect stuff that comes out and stick in into containers until they leak into the sea.
While Tepco are in charge this problem will fester and fester. I makes you realise how the USSR took responsibility for chernobyl and made the area safe. At great sacrifice of course, but a chronic festering Fukushima will eventually kill more workers than those at Pripyat.
The disaster at Fukushima never went away, it just slowed down until the next typhoon/earthquake/f
kup.I'm thinking it's most likely that the water will mostly be surface runoff straight into the sea, I suspect the ground is already pretty saturated there.
When id rains or the tubs split it'll just stream down into the sea.
I doubt they have a clue where the melts are now but its reasonable to assume it's got through the concrete and is mixing with the ground underneath now.
When id rains or the tubs split it'll just stream down into the sea.
I doubt they have a clue where the melts are now but its reasonable to assume it's got through the concrete and is mixing with the ground underneath now.
hairykrishna said:
Globs said:
Where did that idea come from Hairy?
I certainly haven't seen it mentioned here!
Eh? The post before mine suggests it'll melt if not cooled, the one two posts earlier than that suggested it might catch fire!I certainly haven't seen it mentioned here!
If left uncooled it could of course melt and could start fires in contact with combustible material.
I recall a fire in Russia near a river caused by a waste dump drying out IIRC.
In this case though the main issue is washing all the surface radioactive elements into the pacific.
dilbert said:
My sole contention is that we should have an independent body with understanding, resilient facilities and rapid ability to deploy, in the event of a possible future disaster.
It would be very useful yes, but there is no political support.Simi Valley has never been cleaned up either, so don't hold your breath for a decent cleanup at Fukushima.
About 2 years ago I was saying that I thought the melt had left the building and Tepco was saying they were nearly at 'cold shutdown'.
I really wish they'd been right and I'd be wrong.
10 sieverts/h is death in 30 minutes so that's quite a strong leak.
And all they seem to do is piss about on the surface spreading the contamination over the land and sea.
I really wish they'd been right and I'd be wrong.
10 sieverts/h is death in 30 minutes so that's quite a strong leak.
And all they seem to do is piss about on the surface spreading the contamination over the land and sea.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff