Japan Fukushima nuclear thread
Discussion
supersingle said:
They've certainly got form.
It's all very well saying that British nuclear is safe but what about India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and dare I say it... The USA?
What about it? Regardless of whether you or I like it the Indians and the Chinese are intent on building reactors by the dozen. The best we can hope for is the IAEA offering safety/design tips and having them accepted.It's all very well saying that British nuclear is safe but what about India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and dare I say it... The USA?
hidetheelephants said:
supersingle said:
They've certainly got form.
It's all very well saying that British nuclear is safe but what about India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and dare I say it... The USA?
What about it? Regardless of whether you or I like it the Indians and the Chinese are intent on building reactors by the dozen. The best we can hope for is the IAEA offering safety/design tips and having them accepted.It's all very well saying that British nuclear is safe but what about India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and dare I say it... The USA?
http://www.american-reporter.com/4,352/161.html
This is a story about a plant in the US, same design as the melted Fukushima plants, which used to be run extremely well but the new owners are making the residents extremely nervous (and slightly radioactive)..
http://enenews.com/nhk-breaking-news-fire-breaks-j...
A fire at reactor 1, with video - doesn't seem to be well publicised though.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/fukushima-re...
Also news at reactor 4, not sure if it's falling down or being dismantled.
I suspect the spent fuel pools are more dangerous that the melts, because they are un-contained and of a far greater mass.
A fire at reactor 1, with video - doesn't seem to be well publicised though.
http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/forum/218/fukushima-re...
Also news at reactor 4, not sure if it's falling down or being dismantled.
I suspect the spent fuel pools are more dangerous that the melts, because they are un-contained and of a far greater mass.
Edited by Globs on Thursday 15th December 20:54
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16212057
The important bit.."Tepco has also defined it as bringing the release of radioactive materials under control and reducing public radiation exposure to a level that does not exceed 1mSv/year at the site boundary."
NOTE that TEPCO has met the imposed timescale for declaration of cold shutdown buy using their own definition of such.
From above BBC link
"Retired teachers Yuji and Tetsuko Takahashi are among the tens of thousands of people forced to abandon their homes around the Fukushima plant. They were planning to watch the prime minister's announcement on the television. The set was donated to them by wellwishers like everything else in their government-provided Tokyo apartment - even the clothes on their backs.
"Even when we are told it has been shut down I can't believe it," says Tetsuko. "From the start the government officials have lied to us. One of the top officials said on TV that there was no meltdown, but it happened. The actual situation is much, much worse than we were told from the beginning."
The important bit.."Tepco has also defined it as bringing the release of radioactive materials under control and reducing public radiation exposure to a level that does not exceed 1mSv/year at the site boundary."
NOTE that TEPCO has met the imposed timescale for declaration of cold shutdown buy using their own definition of such.
From above BBC link
"Retired teachers Yuji and Tetsuko Takahashi are among the tens of thousands of people forced to abandon their homes around the Fukushima plant. They were planning to watch the prime minister's announcement on the television. The set was donated to them by wellwishers like everything else in their government-provided Tokyo apartment - even the clothes on their backs.
"Even when we are told it has been shut down I can't believe it," says Tetsuko. "From the start the government officials have lied to us. One of the top officials said on TV that there was no meltdown, but it happened. The actual situation is much, much worse than we were told from the beginning."
in parallel, latest IAEA summary, which would appear to have been prepared before the 'cold shut-down' criteria was met.
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/fukushima/sta...
Inevitably the media coverage is somewhat superficial. The annual dose criteria at the site boundary from additonal release to 1 mSv/y - which not quite the same as saying that all releases have stopped. The 'what's next' is going to be the interesting thing - although talk of 40 years of clean up and remediation was mentioned by the BBC, I'm not sure they yet have a plan in place and are probably just making generalised statements.
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/focus/fukushima/sta...
Inevitably the media coverage is somewhat superficial. The annual dose criteria at the site boundary from additonal release to 1 mSv/y - which not quite the same as saying that all releases have stopped. The 'what's next' is going to be the interesting thing - although talk of 40 years of clean up and remediation was mentioned by the BBC, I'm not sure they yet have a plan in place and are probably just making generalised statements.
More about the cleanup at the plant:
Absolutely no progress being made' at Fukushima nuke plant, undercover reporter says - The Mainichi Daily News
Sad to say it but it appears the Russians did a far better job with their disaster and grasped the nettle, the Japanese seem to be locked into a cycle of secrecy, penny pinching and incompetence that beggars belief.
The west coast US is also in line for the continuing fallout..
Absolutely no progress being made' at Fukushima nuke plant, undercover reporter says - The Mainichi Daily News
Sad to say it but it appears the Russians did a far better job with their disaster and grasped the nettle, the Japanese seem to be locked into a cycle of secrecy, penny pinching and incompetence that beggars belief.
The west coast US is also in line for the continuing fallout..
I just got this email
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a $30 million private security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief funds! The Japanese PM is already under enormous pressure for failing to help victims of the tsunami - a global outcry can shame him into using relief money to save people, not kill whales -- sign the petition, and forward to everyone:
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a 30 million dollar security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief fund!
Anti-whaling champions were successfully blocking the Japanese whale hunt -- which is exactly why the Japanese government decided to swipe money from relief efforts to stop the activists from bothering the boats while they engage in their brutal slaughter.
If we can stop the whaling security and get the relief money back for desperate Japanese citizens still languishing in radioactive hotspots, we could help end the whale hunt for good. Japanese PM Noda is already under enormous pressure after scandalous failures to compensate victims of the nuclear disaster. A massive global outcry can spark outrage inside and outside Japan and force Noda to use precious relief funds to save people, not kill whales - sign the petition and forward to everyone:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
Whale hunting is astronomically expensive, and it's made possible by ludicrous government subsidies amounting to $35,000 per whale! If these subsidies are cut back, the whaling industry could collapse. Now the Prime Minister will squander $30 million to provide private security for whale slaughterers to make sure they’re not bothered by environmental activists in the ocean. With the added muscle, Japan plans to kill 1,000 Minke whales for commercial meat sales this year.
Officials claim that whaling subsidies will support coastal communities hit by the tsunami -- even though Japan has had to stockpile whale meat because so few people wish to consume it. All the while, the government has turned a blind eye to victims trapped in radiation hot-spots, with the few who are entitled to compensation pocketing a pitiful $1,000.
Let's urge Prime Minister Noda to stop caving to the whaling lobby and spend relief money on the people who need it most: the victims -- sign the urgent petition now, and forward widely:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
ast year, our community came together in record numbers, and we won the fight to keep a global ban on whaling. And last month, 130,000 Japanese Avaaz members joined together, pressing the government to use tsunami relief funds to protect radiation-exposed children by funding their evacuation from unsafe areas. Time and again we see how powerful lobby groups like the Japanese whaling lobby put profits before people and planet. And time and again, we stop them. Let's do it again.
With hope and determination,
Stephanie, Jamie, Emma, Ricken, Morgan, Laura, Wissam, Wen-Hua and the rest of the Avaaz team
More Information:
BBC: "Japanese tsunami fund used for whaling programme"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16064002
Guardian: "Japan whaling fleet accused of using tsunami disaster funds"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/japan-...
Letter: "Greenpeace Japan and 15 other NGOs letter to Japanese government"
http://www.greenpeace.org/japan/Global/japan/pdf/2...
WSJ: "Use of Government Recovery Funds Stokes Japan Whaling Row"
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/12/08/use-...
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a $30 million private security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief funds! The Japanese PM is already under enormous pressure for failing to help victims of the tsunami - a global outcry can shame him into using relief money to save people, not kill whales -- sign the petition, and forward to everyone:
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a 30 million dollar security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief fund!
Anti-whaling champions were successfully blocking the Japanese whale hunt -- which is exactly why the Japanese government decided to swipe money from relief efforts to stop the activists from bothering the boats while they engage in their brutal slaughter.
If we can stop the whaling security and get the relief money back for desperate Japanese citizens still languishing in radioactive hotspots, we could help end the whale hunt for good. Japanese PM Noda is already under enormous pressure after scandalous failures to compensate victims of the nuclear disaster. A massive global outcry can spark outrage inside and outside Japan and force Noda to use precious relief funds to save people, not kill whales - sign the petition and forward to everyone:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
Whale hunting is astronomically expensive, and it's made possible by ludicrous government subsidies amounting to $35,000 per whale! If these subsidies are cut back, the whaling industry could collapse. Now the Prime Minister will squander $30 million to provide private security for whale slaughterers to make sure they’re not bothered by environmental activists in the ocean. With the added muscle, Japan plans to kill 1,000 Minke whales for commercial meat sales this year.
Officials claim that whaling subsidies will support coastal communities hit by the tsunami -- even though Japan has had to stockpile whale meat because so few people wish to consume it. All the while, the government has turned a blind eye to victims trapped in radiation hot-spots, with the few who are entitled to compensation pocketing a pitiful $1,000.
Let's urge Prime Minister Noda to stop caving to the whaling lobby and spend relief money on the people who need it most: the victims -- sign the urgent petition now, and forward widely:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
ast year, our community came together in record numbers, and we won the fight to keep a global ban on whaling. And last month, 130,000 Japanese Avaaz members joined together, pressing the government to use tsunami relief funds to protect radiation-exposed children by funding their evacuation from unsafe areas. Time and again we see how powerful lobby groups like the Japanese whaling lobby put profits before people and planet. And time and again, we stop them. Let's do it again.
With hope and determination,
Stephanie, Jamie, Emma, Ricken, Morgan, Laura, Wissam, Wen-Hua and the rest of the Avaaz team
More Information:
BBC: "Japanese tsunami fund used for whaling programme"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16064002
Guardian: "Japan whaling fleet accused of using tsunami disaster funds"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/japan-...
Letter: "Greenpeace Japan and 15 other NGOs letter to Japanese government"
http://www.greenpeace.org/japan/Global/japan/pdf/2...
WSJ: "Use of Government Recovery Funds Stokes Japan Whaling Row"
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/12/08/use-...
Apache said:
I just got this email
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a $30 million private security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief funds! The Japanese PM is already under enormous pressure for failing to help victims of the tsunami - a global outcry can shame him into using relief money to save people, not kill whales -- sign the petition, and forward to everyone:
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a 30 million dollar security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief fund!
Anti-whaling champions were successfully blocking the Japanese whale hunt -- which is exactly why the Japanese government decided to swipe money from relief efforts to stop the activists from bothering the boats while they engage in their brutal slaughter.
If we can stop the whaling security and get the relief money back for desperate Japanese citizens still languishing in radioactive hotspots, we could help end the whale hunt for good. Japanese PM Noda is already under enormous pressure after scandalous failures to compensate victims of the nuclear disaster. A massive global outcry can spark outrage inside and outside Japan and force Noda to use precious relief funds to save people, not kill whales - sign the petition and forward to everyone:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
Whale hunting is astronomically expensive, and it's made possible by ludicrous government subsidies amounting to $35,000 per whale! If these subsidies are cut back, the whaling industry could collapse. Now the Prime Minister will squander $30 million to provide private security for whale slaughterers to make sure they’re not bothered by environmental activists in the ocean. With the added muscle, Japan plans to kill 1,000 Minke whales for commercial meat sales this year.
Officials claim that whaling subsidies will support coastal communities hit by the tsunami -- even though Japan has had to stockpile whale meat because so few people wish to consume it. All the while, the government has turned a blind eye to victims trapped in radiation hot-spots, with the few who are entitled to compensation pocketing a pitiful $1,000.
Let's urge Prime Minister Noda to stop caving to the whaling lobby and spend relief money on the people who need it most: the victims -- sign the urgent petition now, and forward widely:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
ast year, our community came together in record numbers, and we won the fight to keep a global ban on whaling. And last month, 130,000 Japanese Avaaz members joined together, pressing the government to use tsunami relief funds to protect radiation-exposed children by funding their evacuation from unsafe areas. Time and again we see how powerful lobby groups like the Japanese whaling lobby put profits before people and planet. And time and again, we stop them. Let's do it again.
With hope and determination,
Stephanie, Jamie, Emma, Ricken, Morgan, Laura, Wissam, Wen-Hua and the rest of the Avaaz team
More Information:
BBC: "Japanese tsunami fund used for whaling programme"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16064002
Guardian: "Japan whaling fleet accused of using tsunami disaster funds"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/japan-...
Letter: "Greenpeace Japan and 15 other NGOs letter to Japanese government"
http://www.greenpeace.org/japan/Global/japan/pdf/2...
WSJ: "Use of Government Recovery Funds Stokes Japan Whaling Row"
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/12/08/use-...
You know, you can say what you like about these "exposee" people and internet sites but sometimes, JUST SOMETIMES, THEY DIG UP SOME GOOD [BAD] sRight now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a $30 million private security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief funds! The Japanese PM is already under enormous pressure for failing to help victims of the tsunami - a global outcry can shame him into using relief money to save people, not kill whales -- sign the petition, and forward to everyone:
Right now, the Japanese whaling fleet is barrelling south to hunt thousands of majestic whales, escorted by a 30 million dollar security force paid for out of the tsunami disaster relief fund!
Anti-whaling champions were successfully blocking the Japanese whale hunt -- which is exactly why the Japanese government decided to swipe money from relief efforts to stop the activists from bothering the boats while they engage in their brutal slaughter.
If we can stop the whaling security and get the relief money back for desperate Japanese citizens still languishing in radioactive hotspots, we could help end the whale hunt for good. Japanese PM Noda is already under enormous pressure after scandalous failures to compensate victims of the nuclear disaster. A massive global outcry can spark outrage inside and outside Japan and force Noda to use precious relief funds to save people, not kill whales - sign the petition and forward to everyone:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
Whale hunting is astronomically expensive, and it's made possible by ludicrous government subsidies amounting to $35,000 per whale! If these subsidies are cut back, the whaling industry could collapse. Now the Prime Minister will squander $30 million to provide private security for whale slaughterers to make sure they’re not bothered by environmental activists in the ocean. With the added muscle, Japan plans to kill 1,000 Minke whales for commercial meat sales this year.
Officials claim that whaling subsidies will support coastal communities hit by the tsunami -- even though Japan has had to stockpile whale meat because so few people wish to consume it. All the while, the government has turned a blind eye to victims trapped in radiation hot-spots, with the few who are entitled to compensation pocketing a pitiful $1,000.
Let's urge Prime Minister Noda to stop caving to the whaling lobby and spend relief money on the people who need it most: the victims -- sign the urgent petition now, and forward widely:
http://www.avaaz.org/en/japan_disaster_funds_whali...
ast year, our community came together in record numbers, and we won the fight to keep a global ban on whaling. And last month, 130,000 Japanese Avaaz members joined together, pressing the government to use tsunami relief funds to protect radiation-exposed children by funding their evacuation from unsafe areas. Time and again we see how powerful lobby groups like the Japanese whaling lobby put profits before people and planet. And time and again, we stop them. Let's do it again.
With hope and determination,
Stephanie, Jamie, Emma, Ricken, Morgan, Laura, Wissam, Wen-Hua and the rest of the Avaaz team
More Information:
BBC: "Japanese tsunami fund used for whaling programme"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16064002
Guardian: "Japan whaling fleet accused of using tsunami disaster funds"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/07/japan-...
Letter: "Greenpeace Japan and 15 other NGOs letter to Japanese government"
http://www.greenpeace.org/japan/Global/japan/pdf/2...
WSJ: "Use of Government Recovery Funds Stokes Japan Whaling Row"
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/12/08/use-...
t!Globs said:
More about the cleanup at the plant:
Absolutely no progress being made' at Fukushima nuke plant, undercover reporter says - The Mainichi Daily News
Sad to say it but it appears the Russians did a far better job with their disaster and grasped the nettle, the Japanese seem to be locked into a cycle of secrecy, penny pinching and incompetence that beggars belief.
The west coast US is also in line for the continuing fallout..
what i cant understand is why the international nuclear regulatary bodys havnt stepped in and taken control of the cleanup.Absolutely no progress being made' at Fukushima nuke plant, undercover reporter says - The Mainichi Daily News
Sad to say it but it appears the Russians did a far better job with their disaster and grasped the nettle, the Japanese seem to be locked into a cycle of secrecy, penny pinching and incompetence that beggars belief.
The west coast US is also in line for the continuing fallout..
if the japs arnt going to do the job properly they should let someone who can. (and also prosecute those responsable for trying to hide issues)
i know the japanese culture is all about saving face but at what point will they forget about image, cut the bullsh@t and do what needs doing properly and openly.
it comes to something when they are acting more secretly than the former ussr!!!!!
Edited by dudleybloke on Monday 19th December 18:11
dudleybloke said:
what i cant understand is why the international nuclear regulatary bodys havnt stepped in and taken control of the cleanup.
if the japs arnt going to do the job properly they should let someone who can. (and also prosecute those responsable for trying to hide issues)
Maybe they're happy that they are doing the job properly? if the japs arnt going to do the job properly they should let someone who can. (and also prosecute those responsable for trying to hide issues)
hairykrishna said:
dudleybloke said:
what i cant understand is why the international nuclear regulatary bodys havnt stepped in and taken control of the cleanup.
if the japs arnt going to do the job properly they should let someone who can. (and also prosecute those responsable for trying to hide issues)
Maybe they're happy that they are doing the job properly? if the japs arnt going to do the job properly they should let someone who can. (and also prosecute those responsable for trying to hide issues)
Anyway, a journalist working as a general labourer for just a month for a contractor isn't going to have access to the information he would need to write a useful report.
At least he confirms that cold shut down has been achieved - a major success !
Busa_Rush said:
At least he confirms that cold shut down has been achieved - a major success !
Without a) any instrumentation and b) without knowing where the cores are I find that rather unlikely!Particularly as at least one of the cores appeared to be fissioning and having criticality episodes, not the usual way to cool decaying by-products down..
Globs said:
Without a) any instrumentation and b) without knowing where the cores are I find that rather unlikely!
Particularly as at least one of the cores appeared to be fissioning and having criticality episodes, not the usual way to cool decaying by-products down..
Cold shutdown just means that the coolant's at lower than boiling temperature at atmospheric pressure. It's not hard to believe. Even if there have been limited criticality excursions because the fuel melted the amount of 'fresh' fission byproducts is probably low.Particularly as at least one of the cores appeared to be fissioning and having criticality episodes, not the usual way to cool decaying by-products down..
hairykrishna said:
Globs said:
Without a) any instrumentation and b) without knowing where the cores are I find that rather unlikely!
Particularly as at least one of the cores appeared to be fissioning and having criticality episodes, not the usual way to cool decaying by-products down..
Cold shutdown just means that the coolant's at lower than boiling temperature at atmospheric pressure. It's not hard to believe. Even if there have been limited criticality excursions because the fuel melted the amount of 'fresh' fission byproducts is probably low.Particularly as at least one of the cores appeared to be fissioning and having criticality episodes, not the usual way to cool decaying by-products down..
Plus it's not coolant unless it's actually cooling something - a fact they are rather unsure about..
hidetheelephants said:
hairykrishna said:
I dunno. Not caught up with the IAEA report to know the current state of the cooling systems yet. I was just commenting that I don't see any reason to disbelieve it.
How dare you bring common sense into this hysteria!Going to double-check the papers...
Talking about cold shutdown is a nonsense. It only applies to an intact reactor vessel with a functioning cooling system removing the decay heat.
What seems to have been "achieved" is that the fuel has cooled due to the fact that decay has slowed down. So the situation is more stable, which is good. Whether the actions taken by TEPCO have had any effect on this is anyone's guess.
What seems to have been "achieved" is that the fuel has cooled due to the fact that decay has slowed down. So the situation is more stable, which is good. Whether the actions taken by TEPCO have had any effect on this is anyone's guess.
Another day, another leak: http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/20111219_02.ht...
Still, trivial to whats happening in the reactors I guess.
One also has to wonder what caused reactor 4 to look like this, if it's just full of a tepid pool of water and some spent fuel rods..
Interesting vid from back in August: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baya8-agPs4
Bear in mind it's probably 'hysterical and biased', perhaps a balance to the 'cold shutdown' propaganda.
Any corroboration of the claim (in the video) that the NRC found fuel fragments from a reactor core (not the pool) over 1.5 miles from the plant?
Still, trivial to whats happening in the reactors I guess.
One also has to wonder what caused reactor 4 to look like this, if it's just full of a tepid pool of water and some spent fuel rods..
Interesting vid from back in August: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baya8-agPs4
Bear in mind it's probably 'hysterical and biased', perhaps a balance to the 'cold shutdown' propaganda.
Any corroboration of the claim (in the video) that the NRC found fuel fragments from a reactor core (not the pool) over 1.5 miles from the plant?
Edited by Globs on Tuesday 20th December 23:44
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