Benefit in kind - fuel

Benefit in kind - fuel

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northandy

Original Poster:

3,495 posts

220 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
So any of the ph finance forum know how to deal with this?

We have an new employee who has been given a car allowance, £500 per month before tax, but they have also been given company provided fuel (for all miles, private and business)

Obviously the online p46 declaration is set up for people provided with a company car and fuel, there doesnt seem to be any way to inform of only fuel provided.

So i guess we could work the benefit out using the car co2 and declaring on the p11d.

Has anyone ever come accross this before?

bogie

16,342 posts

271 months

Wednesday 25th April 2012
quotequote all
yeah, Ive been in this situation for 10 years myself. The total fuel paid for goes in "other benefits" box, simple as that

the employee then claims back tax relief on .45p a mile for 10K miles and 25p thereafter via their tax return for business miles only, they put this is expenses section

so the onus is on the employee to keep a record of which miles are business and which are personal

actually works out quite well, certainly better than being taxed on CO2 of a company car...usually I get "free" fuel all year and end up with a grand or so coming back from the tax man which helps with car running costs

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
bogie said:
the employee then claims back tax relief on .45p a mile for 10K miles and 25p thereafter via their tax return for business miles only, they put this is expenses section
I am in this situation and didn't know I could do this. Most of the people at my company claim their fuel back at so many pence per mile but I get a fuel card. Everyone has been claiming tax back using a P87 form but I didn't know what I should put on it as all my fuel is covered. I do very few private miles and was thinking of going to the pence per mile option but if I can do this it makers more sense.

bogie

16,342 posts

271 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
jpringle819 said:
I am in this situation and didn't know I could do this. Most of the people at my company claim their fuel back at so many pence per mile but I get a fuel card. Everyone has been claiming tax back using a P87 form but I didn't know what I should put on it as all my fuel is covered. I do very few private miles and was thinking of going to the pence per mile option but if I can do this it makers more sense.
use a P87 form too then for business miles ...a fuel card is just paying petrol cost, the tax man says you can have .45p a mile (which allows for more than just petrol)

if you have proof of business miles you should be in for a nice tax refund

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
bogie said:
if you have proof of business miles you should be in for a nice tax refund
Is there a time limit on how many years I can go back? I have spreadsheets recording my mileage for the last four years.

bogie

16,342 posts

271 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
jpringle819 said:
Is there a time limit on how many years I can go back? I have spreadsheets recording my mileage for the last four years.
5 years I think ..just be sure to do the maths first as a practice run and supply all the evidence with your tax return/forms

northandy

Original Poster:

3,495 posts

220 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
Brilliant info guys, thanks all.

Looks like i need to get this sorted tomorrow.

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, I never did get around to claiming any tax back using the P87 form. To recap I get a car allowance and a fuel card, I am taxed on my car allowance through payroll and the fuel card via p11d. However, I have just had my p11d details through for this year and my employer has already taken into account my business mileage for last year so there is no extra for me to pay.

This got me thinking about the year 2012 to 2013 and that I should look at claiming the tax back. During that year I had a p11d benefit of £3355 for my fuel card. I also did 11039 business miles which if I was claiming fuel back at the full rate would have been £4759.75.

How do I fill out the P87 form? Do I put $4759.75 in box 6 and £3355 in box 7? Or is there a different way to claim when I have a fuel card?

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
I am not sure I am right in the post above, I have already paid 40% tax on the £3355 how do I account for that?

bogie

16,342 posts

271 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
I guess the fuel benefit value on p11d is noted "other benefits" ?

I do this via self assessment online - if you need advice on which forms then your local tax office can advise, im not sure what the latest forms are

you put the value of benefit received in benefits received section of self assessment

in "other business expenses" related to your employment you put down your business miles and the calculations

e.g. 10,000 miles at 45p, 5000 miles @ 25p in vehicle reg xxxx = £5750 expenses

so it works out like your employer paid you £3700 (for example) in petrol on fuel card - you pay tax on that

then you claim your business miles at .45/25p rates = £5750 you get tax back on that

effectively you get the tax back on the difference between the two figures

doing it online each year is real easy, as soon as I get my p11d I do mine, and usually get a tax refund in my bank 3 days later

HMRC usually then send you a coding notice to take the expenses into account on your tax code, I always ring them and knock the allowance down a bit. My business miles is variable. Id sooner pay a bit more tax and and have a few hundred quid "bonus" to wait for at year end, rather than not drive so much during the year and have a tax bill to look forward to

sumo69

2,164 posts

219 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
jpringle819 said:
Sorry to resurrect such an old thread, I never did get around to claiming any tax back using the P87 form. To recap I get a car allowance and a fuel card, I am taxed on my car allowance through payroll and the fuel card via p11d. However, I have just had my p11d details through for this year and my employer has already taken into account my business mileage for last year so there is no extra for me to pay.

This got me thinking about the year 2012 to 2013 and that I should look at claiming the tax back. During that year I had a p11d benefit of £3355 for my fuel card. I also did 11039 business miles which if I was claiming fuel back at the full rate would have been £4759.75.

How do I fill out the P87 form? Do I put $4759.75 in box 6 and £3355 in box 7? Or is there a different way to claim when I have a fuel card?
I don't have a form to check but the theory sounds right - you should get a rebate of 40% of £4759.45 if you are a higher rate taxpayer equating to £1903.78, or half that if a basic rate payer.

Are you sure the £3355 is the GROSS benefit ie total payments made for fuel without deduction for any business mileage?

You know you still could claim for years 10/11 and 11/12 as well?

David

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
sumo69 said:
Are you sure the £3355 is the GROSS benefit ie total payments made for fuel without deduction for any business mileage?

You know you still could claim for years 10/11 and 11/12 as well?
I am fairly sure that is the gross benefit as that equates to filling up once a week for a year, but I will check with the finance department at work. If they had already deducted the amount for business miles I guess I can't claim anything?

If I could find my p11d details for 10/11 and 11/12 I would have a go at claiming as I have all the mileage details recorded.

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
It looks like my P11D for that year was gross so I have filled in the form and completed all my supporting documentation. looks like I should get just over £500 if I have done it all right.

sumo69

2,164 posts

219 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
jpringle819 said:
It looks like my P11D for that year was gross so I have filled in the form and completed all my supporting documentation. looks like I should get just over £500 if I have done it all right.
Your figures in your earlier posts indicate the refund for 12/13 should be higher - how do you get to that number?

What about the 11/12 and 10/11 claims?

David

jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
If I understand it right I could have claimed £4759.75 for my business miles over the year. My total fuel card spend for the year was £3355 so I can claim the tax back on the difference of £1404.75 which for that year should be at 40%. If this isn't the case then I can't see how to fill in the P87 form as the boxes are assuming I get a pence per mile amount.

sumo69

2,164 posts

219 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
jpringle819 said:
If I understand it right I could have claimed £4759.75 for my business miles over the year. My total fuel card spend for the year was £3355 so I can claim the tax back on the difference of £1404.75 which for that year should be at 40%. If this isn't the case then I can't see how to fill in the P87 form as the boxes are assuming I get a pence per mile amount.
If your P11d had an entry of £3355 which is taxed then you are entitled to full tax relief for your business mileage - if this equates to £4760 (so 11,040 miles) you should get a rebate of 40% of that amount (£1904).

You shouldn't enter the £3355 on the P87 if it was shown as a benefit on the P11d.

Perhaps you should be getting some professional help on this...

David



jpringle819

719 posts

238 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
sumo69 said:
If your P11d had an entry of £3355 which is taxed then you are entitled to full tax relief for your business mileage - if this equates to £4760 (so 11,040 miles) you should get a rebate of 40% of that amount (£1904).

You shouldn't enter the £3355 on the P87 if it was shown as a benefit on the P11d.

Perhaps you should be getting some professional help on this...

David
Thanks for your help I have now amended the form, hopefully I have done it right and will soon receive a cheque for £1900ish. If I do receive something I will sort you out a crate of beer/a bottle of something or a donation to a charity of your choice.

blank

3,439 posts

187 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
You need to start doing self assessment online!

I dont think you have the refund calc quite right though.

Value of fuel £3000.
10,000 business miles at 45p per mile is £4500 tax deduction.

Therefore you have an overall tax deduction of £1500.
Of which you'll get £300 or £600 in your pocket (or somewhere in between if you're on the 40% border, or more if you pay 45%).

blank

3,439 posts

187 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
Actually, what is your tax code?

How do you normally pay the tax on the fuel?

sumo69

2,164 posts

219 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
blank said:
You need to start doing self assessment online!

I dont think you have the refund calc quite right though.

Value of fuel £3000.
10,000 business miles at 45p per mile is £4500 tax deduction.

Therefore you have an overall tax deduction of £1500.
Of which you'll get £300 or £600 in your pocket (or somewhere in between if you're on the 40% border, or more if you pay 45%).
Errr...no!

He has not been reimbursed 3k against his claim but assessed via a P11d on £3k for Fuel supplied, so he can claim his full mileage rate.

David