My Trading journey.

[anonymous-user]

Ford 2 said:

Well I must say that was interesting. From page 1 all the way to page 15 I was firm with th OP ( Could very well be the truth still ) but now after some actual traders had a look see I'm not so sure. I find it all extreamly interesting. I never once though trading/betting etc was a overnight success story etc, But I didnt see how much goes on in the backround. I'd love to be able to work with the likes of Hoofy, Dubai and R11ysf. Ye seem to lead a very interesting career, A very well done to ye all

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 22 May 19:50

Nothing special about myself, I just put the hard yards in and try my best to beat the market.

On good days there really isn't a job in the world I'd rather be doing but on bad streaks, it's extremely tough to keep emotionally in control.

I've always battled with emotional discipline and firmly believe the psychology and discipline side of trading takes up more than 50-60% of trading.

[DoubleSix]

Dubai said:

Nothing special about myself, I just put the hard yards in and try my best to beat the market.

On good days there really isn't a job in the world I'd rather be doing but on bad streaks, it's extremely tough to keep emotionally in control.

I've always battled with emotional discipline and firmly believe the psychology and discipline side of trading takes up more than 50-60% of trading.

Hear, hear.

As a portfolio manager it's as much about managing the emotions of one's clients as well as one's self - not easy in current times.

I'd recommend Technical Analysis of the Financial Markets by John J Murphy for anyone who wants a solid overview.

[vetrof]

Well this thread has really disappointed.

I initally took Mr Fox at face value, but when he said that he was risking 10% of his account per trade doubts started to creep in. Ten wrong trades and you are wiped out is madness.

Also his reluctance to discuss what indicators he was using was a bit strange. It's not hard to say that you are using moving averages, support/resistance, fibonacci or whatever without actually giving away specifics.

I think the pros are to be commended for their voicing of their concerns. It would have been so easy to give enough evidence to convince he was genuine.

I too hope nobody has been tempted to part with cash for his 'knowledge'.

Any of the pros here willing to share their strategies with us amateurs?

[Shadow62]

DonkeyApple said:

The question to ask is why would a bookmaker pay a client £5k a day?

The next question to ask is how can a bookmaker lay off instantly and not invite slippage or comm themselves?

Economies of scale. The spread betting firm could well be laying off the risk with cash products via banks.

I would say that everything is algo driven.

Eg spread bet price in EUR/GBP Fx could be 1.27000 / 1.27008 and via the interbank market it may well be 1.27003/1.27004. Ie spread better / punter pays the 1.27008 offer and the spread betting firm with the offsetting risk can hedge by paying 1.27004 and locking in 4pips with little risk. The firm still has the basis risk of cash vs spread bet though, although the correlation is very high.

I don't know wether they do but it wouldn't surprise if the spread betting firms use algorithms against each account (or a handful of top accounts) too to decide wether to hedge straight away or wait.

[Hoofy]

DonkeyApple said:

Hoofy said:

Oh, right. Tried to find his site to link to it!

This one might still be active: http://www.wealthtrainingcompany.co.uk

I can't recall the one I actually saw advertised.

Mark Harniman is back with something called the commodity trend runner.

And Greg is still going strong although getting divorced again.

The worst one I saw recently was the return of one of the biggest fx shysters of the 80s is back with a brokerage vehicle linked to one of the main chappies behind PacCon.

I wonder how many PM were sent and how much money is about to be extracted.

It's like a soap opera!

[DonkeyApple]

First of all avoid FX

The problem with FX for the retail punter is that since the 80s almost every shark, conman and liar has loved this market due to its characteristics.

First of all, spot fx was unregulated for decades meaning there were no restrictions to the lies and manipulations of spank shops. There were no punishments either. So this is a market that to this day is the largest for rip off merchants.

Secondly, with no central exchange there is no clarity. Spot brokers have been able to quote whatever price they like and change it to suit their book.

For the retail trader it is a market fraught with enormous risks before you even get position exposure. Almost all retail brokers run their fx exposure on a B Book basis. The sole aim is to shift the client deposit to the balance sheet as smoothly as possible with as little wastage.

Third party platforms are designed to solely to facilitate b book activity. Many brokers are run offshore and owned by 'interesting characters' or have fronts hiding the real owners.

The simple fact is that FX has grown rapidly in the last decade for retail traders as it is an easy sell combined with an easier spank so it has been promoted more heavily than any other instrument.

It's a perfect product for a broker. It looks cheap to the client but you can rape on slippage so charge more.

You can run clever systems which change prices to favour you.

If a client isn't losing enough you can adjust their trading settings. Why does one client complain of bad fills and another race about great fills?

Flow is more two way than for any other market so brokers get less swings to over weight exposure so they have to hedge less.

Firms claim they run via an ECN but dont reveal they are on the other side as one of the providers.

No, sadly while retail fx serves a purpose and there are a small number of firms genuinely trying to be legitimate it is so rife with thieves, liars, delusional fools and parasites that if someone is making stable returns they will need to find an alternate mechanism for accessing the market.

Trading direct with real bank clearers through a legitimate ECN an paying commission is the cleanest solution.

This will never be promoted by spankers as they cannot obtain any book losses, the comms are too tight for any rebates and you won't have a broker feeding you data that helps you win when teaching other traders.

[DonkeyApple]

Shadow62 said:

Economies of scale. The spread betting firm could well be laying off the risk with cash products via banks.

I would say that everything is algo driven.

Eg spread bet price in EUR/GBP Fx could be 1.27000 / 1.27008 and via the interbank market it may well be 1.27003/1.27004. Ie spread better / punter pays the 1.27008 offer and the spread betting firm with the offsetting risk can hedge by paying 1.27004 and locking in 4pips with little risk. The firm still has the basis risk of cash vs spread bet though, although the correlation is very high.

I don't know wether they do but it wouldn't surprise if the spread betting firms use algorithms against each account (or a handful of top accounts) too to decide wether to hedge straight away or wait.

No.

It's simple A and B book management.

Take on all B Book exposure and hedge excessive exposure.

At the same time monitor client accounts for abnormal activity and when found determine if they are cheating or just good. If the latter you switch to A Book if they are big enough to generate any kind of comm worth having or you start with the 'slip and slow' and then if they are still winning you boot them out if their flow is no use for you.

When it comes to hedging excess exposure it's just a bloke executing via an ECN.

Very few spread bet firms operate any differently from the futures or fx firms of the 80s.

[zac510]

vetrof said:

Also his reluctance to discuss what indicators he was using was a bit strange. It's not hard to say that you are using moving averages, support/resistance, fibonacci or whatever without actually giving away specifics.

He did say what indicators he is using. Did they not sound complicated enough to be plausible?

vetrof said:

I too hope nobody has been tempted to part with cash for his 'knowledge'.

Any of the pros here willing to share their strategies with us amateurs?

I dunno what's worse; a punter paying for it or you trying to coax it for free!

At least reward a man for his thousands of hours of hard graft and learning!

[vetrof]

zac510 said:

I dunno what's worse; a punter paying for it or you trying to coax it for free!

Really? What were they? I saw he mentioned 'horizontal line', but I don't think that means much to anybody.

zac510 said:

At least reward a man for his thousands of hours of hard graft and learning!

[anonymous-user]

vetrof said:

Well this thread has really disappointed.

I initally took Mr Fox at face value, but when he said that he was risking 10% of his account per trade doubts started to creep in. Ten wrong trades and you are wiped out is madness.

Also his reluctance to discuss what indicators he was using was a bit strange. It's not hard to say that you are using moving averages, support/resistance, fibonacci or whatever without actually giving away specifics.

I think the pros are to be commended for their voicing of their concerns. It would have been so easy to give enough evidence to convince he was genuine.

I too hope nobody has been tempted to part with cash for his 'knowledge'.

Any of the pros here willing to share their strategies with us amateurs?

My best piece of advice would to be to follow the trend. It really is amazing seeing the retail traders stack themselves against the trend.

Right now, roughly 65-70% of retail traders are LONG EURUSD meaning the likelihood of further setbacks are high.

[DoubleSix]

The trend is indeed your friend.

I'm in equities and can't offer specific advice (for obvious reasons), but I think the current environment lends itself well to value trades.

Identify companies with solid underlying balance sheets that are out of favour for one reason or another, or just hammered in sympathy to their sector. A bit of Buffetism if you will...

Companies with a diverse geography of income stream can also ride the storm well.

The more adventurous may want to consider some of the special sits that are being thrown up by current turmoil, I think there is opportunity in certain stocks ahead of Egypt's elections for example.

Some of the best 'home traders' actually go out and get their securities & regs exams and anyone thinking of taking it beyond a hobby would do well to consider that...

[vetrof]

Thanks Dubai, what sort of timeframes do you think are reasonable to use?

Because when trading trends, it's quite easy to get caught out and stopped out while going with the trend if there is a smallish/short-lived reverse.

[zac510]

vetrof said:

Really? What were they? I saw he mentioned 'horizontal line', but I don't think that means much to anybody.

Myself don't think system success positively correlates with system complexity. If a horizontal line is all this man needs to be successful then it's beautiful in its simplicity. But then there are so many ways to skin this cat, who am I to say?

[vetrof]

zac510 said:

Myself don't think system success positively correlates with system complexity. If a horizontal line is all this man needs to be successful then it's beautiful in its simplicity. But then there are so many ways to skin this cat, who am I to say?

That's very true. There are many indicators(and associated variables) and it is impossibe to combine more than a few at a time.

But seriously? A horizontal line? That's genius

[anonymous-user]

vetrof said:

Thanks Dubai, what sort of timeframes do you think are reasonable to use?

Because when trading trends, it's quite easy to get caught out and stopped out while going with the trend if there is a smallish/short-lived reverse.

Depends entirely on your outlook on trading. As I trade intraday I can take note of a 4hr trend and trade off that. If you're taking longer term views obviously you'd want to view bigger timeframes to get the picture.

[DS3R]

birdcage said:

For some reason I am thinking of someone sitting in their underpants in a two up two down with a limited grip on reality. As Soovy would say prove me wrong and I will send you a bottle of Cristal via the site

Screen grabs with no personal info at all attached.

Calling Mr Fox

I SO hope you come back here & can claim a bottle,

I know of at least half a dozen people who have spunked tens of thousands on trading courses, a group of three of whom sold a business for millions and thought they could just use wifi to trade from a yacht, and make more money with less effort. The one who bought the yacht still has it, none of them continue to trade despite very positive starts, so I don't think it's that implausible at all.

[R11ysf]

As I wrote in my first post on this thread the advice I can give to anyone wanting to start in trading DO NOT give thousands of pounds to any company or person who wants to "teach" you to trade. (The Society of Technical Analysis might be a good start to get a minor qualification and to ignite interst and give a bse foundation). Trading is something that comes naturally to very very few. To most it comes through constantly looking at markets/charts and reading a shed load. Initially I was doing ok working 7-4.30 and thinking I knew it all. Then you realise that you know nothing. 3 or 4 years or 7am to 9pm and I actually started to understand stuff and how things move. Now I still do 7am to 7pm 5 days a week and read a bit at weekends. If you want a better work/life balance or don't want to work that long then that's cool, just don't think you can do this on a part time basis. (Hence my comments to Mr Fox about being up £5k when you've only been trading for a short while and then finishing at midday - it's not a a long term strategy).

There are several firms in London that offer grad schemes and take on traders with the intention of them trading and making money. The firm make money from your desk fees, round turn costs and split of profits. However, the DO NOT charge you for training and it is in their best interests for you to be successful. Look up Schneider's Trading, Marex Trading, Elite etc etc

Successful traders do so through the experience of having seen many, many markets/charts/economic releases before and therefore having the confidence to trade knowing of the last 10/100/1000 times the market behaved like this then 95% of the time X was the outcome.

For people who have just started trading then psychology is important and reading as much around the topic to keep control of yourself is very worthwhile. Books like Blink etc are useful and there are numerous tests you can take and analyse the results of. It is also worth remembering that different markets require different types of approaches, some markets suit some people's personalities better than others.

Some people only trade well being up and don't like being negative. Outright trading things like gold where you can be massively offside quickly may not suit you. I like giving positions a long time to mature so I trade a lot of spreads. I also like scalping things which have real comparative values i.e. bonds. I can only reiterate what I wrote before, in the hundreds of traders I've known and me I have never met a single one who makes money in outright FX CONSISTENTLY.

Do lots of research on different products and how they are traded and you will learn loads.

The only 2 things I can say with certainty are that it is one of the best jobs in the world as every day work is a competition and if it's going well it's like being Federer playing tennis. It's just easy and you wonder why everyone makes it look so hard!

And secondly, rather like Federer, it may look east on the surface but underneath there has been an absolute stload of hard work. An absolute stload.

[anonymous-user]

I think this is the one big myth about trading, I am sure some people do fluke a few spreadbets or trades but the majority (AFAIK) work damn hard

I made a choice years ago that a good work/life balance was key and so (not that I may have ended up trading anyway) chose a skill and industry that would allow me to earn well enough to keep me comfortable but my earnings are never going to set the world alite

I have lots of friends in banking and yes when a couple of them are driving very very nice cars at 2-3 years younger than me I do get a bit envious, however also when I was getting the tube home one night having finished at 5 and been on the piss for a few hours, bumped into a mate who was getting the train home from work at 10pm for the 3rd day that week looking haggard and a bit broken at 30 years old the envy disappears

But Joe Public seem to think its just a jolly where people get paid shedloads for doing fk all

Horses for Courses

[Mr fox]

DS3R said:

birdcage said:

For some reason I am thinking of someone sitting in their underpants in a two up two down with a limited grip on reality. As Soovy would say prove me wrong and I will send you a bottle of Cristal via the site

Screen grabs with no personal info at all attached.

Calling Mr Fox

I SO hope you come back here & can claim a bottle,

I know of at least half a dozen people who have spunked tens of thousands on trading courses, a group of three of whom sold a business for millions and thought they could just use wifi to trade from a yacht, and make more money with less effort. The one who bought the yacht still has it, none of them continue to trade despite very positive starts, so I don't think it's that implausible at all.

Wow.
I really think I have heard it all. I come on here to share my experience in the life of an amateur trader, and all I got was insults, and abuse. First it pissed me of, but on reflection is quite amusing, but what has really made me LOL is some of the responses I got.

I'm told i must be a scammer as this is my first post ever. I guess everybody has to start somewhere, and i thought why not here. Then I'm questioned over my spread. Now if "Dubai's" assessment in his trades is as good as his investigation into my spread, then he sure is going to struggle as a trader, as the fool didnt even bother to google Fxcm to see if they do spread-betting(google is your friend), but that is irrelevant as "I DON'T" spread-bet, but he failed to understand when I told him that I have a substantial account with FXCM, and that's why they give me very good spread's, which he thought was'nt true. It's the same as if you have large account's anywhere(the bank manager takes you out for meal's etc), or you bank with "Coutts" you get a concierge service etc.

Then you've got someone mentioning it's like a "proffessional sport", lol. Yes it is for me, as I'm actually making money, where as you may be sitting on the side-lines.

I'm told I must be lying if my stop-loss was around 40pips, but I got out for 29(ish), well if my learned collegue who posted that "actually read", what I put in someones response....I did say.."I am going to tighten my spread".

i'm sure there are soem people on here who do work in the industry, but how many of them actually are bona fide FSA registered traders, rather than just jumped up patsy's in their cheap suits, and hermes belts working in a spread-betting company ringing clients to get them to trade.

I have asked certain people to answer my question's, but then all i get is silence, yet they find it "a right" to question me. If you can't answer a simple question as what line of work are you in, are you a FSA registered trader, then why the hell should i post any information about my trades.

Yes I work from a Laptop, and yes it is not ideal, and i have ordered a bespoke desk-top with 4 screens, and until it arrives...laptop it is.

Then some clown comes on with his words of wisdom along the lines of "Avoid Forex".. ha haaa. Is this guy for real(your a programmer at best NOT A TRADER). It's like a footballer told not to KICK the ball.... It is a platform to make money(trillions traded per day), as people see fit. The same guys talking about slippage etc..."I MADE A FEW PIPS ON A 40+ PIP MOVE ON BOTH", Ah I see the slippage now "ITS IN THIS GUYS GRASP OF NUMERACY". LOL.

How bout this one "he must be lying, as he's going in 10% risk, and if 10 trades go wrong he's wiped out"...DUH. Now this poster must win the "NO st SHERLOCK" award. Spoken like a true detective. LOL. Did you ever think that if one 10% trade goes wrong i may not doing it again(and I said upto 10%).

Then we have the amatuer psychologist's who come on here with their infantile reverse psychology tactic's of..."If we call him out, then he'll reveal all his techniques"...why dont you guy's "grow some balls", and actually ask me what I'm doing, and I would've told you.. IT'S NOT A SECRET, BUT VERY SIMPLE.

How much more info did you guys need if i am giving you a LIVE TRADE to look at with stop loss.. OH WAIT. I must be lying as one poster put, as I didnt give an exit. How can you possible determine an exit if the trade is going to do what it wants to(all you can have is expectations)

Then one poster stick's his tongue in the ass of the other trader's(amatuer) along the lines of "oo this sound's fun I wanna spend time with you guys". Why would you want to spend time with trader's who DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO POST LIVE TRADES TO BE SCRUTINISED", and if you asked me that question I'd say NO THANKS.

Let's just say we believe the doubter's, and I am a liar, and "FLUKED" 5 out 6 trades right...
WHY DONT YOU GUYS POST TRADES UP, AND I'LL SCRUTINISE THEM... P.S. please put in target, and stop loss so I can have a laugh if your wrong.

If anything Ive written is wrong please do put me straight.

Anyhoo I've had a good morning trading(in my underpants), and sat having coffee with a Hedge Fund manager in Mayfair, but the question is...What have you been doing.

P.S. I thank some of you who actually DO BELIEVE ME or did send me mail asking me to start posting again, and if theres any person who can say I mailed them with course detail's, wanting money to invest, or any other scheming "I WILL DONATE £10,000 TO THE NSPCC".

Regards
Mr Fox.

[z4chris99]

Mr fox said:

DONT HAVE THE BALLS TO POST LIVE TRADES TO BE SCRUTINISED", and if you asked me that question I'd say NO THANKS.

Let's just say we believe the doubter's, and I am a liar, and "FLUKED" 5 out 6 trades right...
WHY DONT YOU GUYS POST TRADES UP, AND I'LL SCRUTINISE THEM... P.S. please put in target, and stop loss so I can have a laugh if your wrong.

here is my trade from earlier when i was on the bog, i thankfully got out for a profit of 7p. But as you can see my IG "when having a st" account is down 70p at the moment. i must be doing something wrong maybe i need lessons.

my ultra secret strategy is that when i start my st i either go long or short on whatever i fancy, then i close it when i finish wiping. it adds a bit of excitement to an otherwise smelly task.

Mr fox said:

Anyhoo I've had a good morning trading(in my underpants), and sat having coffee with a Hedge Fund manager in Mayfair, but the question is...What have you been doing.

Ive been sat in my office in Mayfair

Edited by z4chris99 on Wednesday 23 May 18:26