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Du1point8

16,695 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
This is an interesting thread... will be taking note of this one.

AdamTheTrader

156 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Very interesting read, certainly right up my street. I trade EUR/USD and GBP/USD daily (37 pips on the Euro overnight, hurrah!)

I've always considered day trading to be somewhat instinctive. You're either capable of the dealing with the mental pressures and making informed snap-decisions or you're not. For this reason I never bothered with lessons 5 years ago and I'm entirely self taught- I can assure you and all the other guys here that you easily end up losing £40k when you're just starting out with no guidance hehe

Interested to see how your trades compare to mine.

Good luck beer

Du1point8

16,695 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
AdamTheTrader said:
Very interesting read, certainly right up my street. I trade EUR/USD and GBP/USD daily (37 pips on the Euro overnight, hurrah!)

I've always considered day trading to be somewhat instinctive. You're either capable of the dealing with the mental pressures and making informed snap-decisions or you're not. For this reason I never bothered with lessons 5 years ago and I'm entirely self taught- I can assure you and all the other guys here that you easily end up losing £40k when you're just starting out with no guidance hehe

Interested to see how your trades compare to mine.

Good luck beer
Got a couple of friends that are self taught... it costs them on average £20k-30k in mistakes before they start understanding it.

For those not in the know...

Any good books/websites to learn the basics? Like how to backtest efficiently, how to understand the strategies and which to utilise, etc?

That was to both you and the OP.

JPJPJP

2,664 posts

55 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Adventures of a Currency Trader is as good a place to start as any

Mr Fox. I wish you well on your journey

Are you calling tomorrows trades in advance? Much easier to gain more credibility by doing that rather than posting after the event (one poster has already said they can read the results pretty well and have a bowl of pips to hand...)

I am also curious why £10/pp am and £30/pp pm...

R11ysf

1,529 posts

69 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Du1point8 said:
Got a couple of friends that are self taught... it costs them on average £20k-30k in mistakes before they start understanding it.
And so it should. There is a saying "You pay to learn" and with every loss you learn more. No doubt after you think you've "got it" you scale up and then lose more than you ever have before and wipe out weeks/months of profits. That's just how it goes.

Think how much it costs to be a doctor? £50k? £100k? And then you get your £70-£150k job at the end of it. £20-30k to learn how to do something that can make you £20-30k in minutes doesn't seem to bad to me.

However there are no short cuts and a lot of the understanding comes through time and experience. Read a lot of technical analysis book, read the news (both financial and normal) every day and have an understanding of what news events will affect your products. Then they key is to know HOW they will affect your products.

Also looking at charts. Lots of them. The law of 10,000 hours applies to everything. If you look at charts for 8 hours a day then after a month you will notice something. " months something new. 6 months, 12 months etc etc. And then the market will change and all the stuff you've learnt won't apply!! biggrin

There's no substitute for plain old hard work. (Which is why I find heading off to walk the dogs on a day when your model and the market are working well I find a little strange - maximise your winning days, you never know when you'll be begging for any up day!)
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deadmau5

3,148 posts

67 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Why would someone take £5k to teach you for 5 days, when he can make £26k in 3 hours trading?

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
JPJPJP said:
Adventures of a Currency Trader is as good a place to start as any

Mr Fox. I wish you well on your journey

Are you calling tomorrows trades in advance? Much easier to gain more credibility by doing that rather than posting after the event (one poster has already said they can read the results pretty well and have a bowl of pips to hand...)

I am also curious why £10/pp am and £30/pp pm...
All trades were on time live apart from the last 2 which gave u an hour or two's notice.
;-)

AdamTheTrader

156 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Du1point8 said:
Any good books/websites to learn the basics? Like how to backtest efficiently, how to understand the strategies and which to utilise, etc?

That was to both you and the OP.
fxbootcamp.com isn't a bad one for educational purposes only; 'Forexnerd' on youtube also has hundreds of half decent lectures

Though with anything speculative you're better off take everything with a massive pinch of salt. Honestly you're a lot better off taking away as little as you can from those websites and using your own perception. Once you do that you can put your ideas to work, learn from mistakes, and become more informed in the future.

JPJPJP said:
I am also curious why £10/pp am and £30/pp pm...
I do this because I leave trades running overnight with higher stop loss and take profit brackets.

wormburner

8,090 posts

140 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
hidetheelephants said:
raptor600 said:
Mr fox said:
I wasnt born with a silver spoon in my mouth, but was taught that hard work, and persistance pays off.
Alright, Alan Sugar.
That's Siralan to you. hehe




Although I note that the drones on 'the Apprentice' are calling the scruffy oik Lord Sugar these days.
Or when they get themselves in a flap, "Sir Lord", or as that Irish guy did, simply "Sugar".

mrmr96

13,736 posts

91 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
I didn't know what candles were when I opened this thread, but I found a link with some information for noobs:
http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_sc...

Strawman

5,548 posts

94 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
>puts all money into Drachma<

walm

4,880 posts

89 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Firstly very best of luck to you Mr Fox.

And I apologise in advance for being negative BUT...

My job is to analyse companies and determine good ones from bad ones.
Good ones very often simply come down to the barriers to entry for what they do, which give them a competitive advantage.
Examples:
- Rightmove: 95% of estate agents are now signed up. A new website couldn't get the volume of properties necessary to compete.
- Virgin Media: no one can build a new fibre/cable network to the home; it's uneconomical. BT is their only threat and they have not much cash to invest in improving fibre.
- Vodafone: mobile networks are expensive and you need a licence - unfortunately too much competition.
- Apple: army of iOS app developers creating an almost unassailable barrier. Just ask Nokia.

Bad business examples:
- Airlines: surprisingly it is very easy to get the cash to start an airline. The airline industry has lost money over its history.
- Solar panel manufacturing: very labour intensive but anyone can rent some space in China and pay workers to build the things.

So what's the point?
Well, what are the barriers to entry for day trading? Zero. (Other than a small deposit.) Anyone can open account.

So, what are the chances of making money in such an industry over the long term? Well, zero.
If you think you have a successful strategy any minor advantage will be squeezed out as the thousands of others trying to do the same thing crush the benefit.

Now teaching a "successful" trading strategy IS a reasonable business because not everyone has the credibility to be able to charge £5-20k a pop. Here there are barriers to entry. That's why the question of "why, if you have a successful strategy are you TEACHING not TRADING!!??" is so important.

If making money day trading were a viable long term business then the banks would be full of math PhDs crunching numbers with super computers.
Oh wait - they are.

That's your competition. They are going to win. They have a competitive advantage: it takes many people, tens of years of study and something made by CRAY Industries.

You have a roulette wheel and a small deposit.

TL;DR
- The number of successful day traders < The number of unsuccessful day traders, which is why Mr Fox needs LUCK.

(Nevertheless he clearly made >£5k more than me today so who am I to judge.)

vetrof

818 posts

60 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Some good points Walm, but I would suggest that the below reason is exactly why it is possible to make money. Beacuse the majority don't have the discipline and psychology to learn and stick to whatever strategy they choose.
walm said:
- The number of successful day traders < The number of unsuccessful day traders, which is why Mr Fox needs LUCK.

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
walm said:
Firstly very best of luck to you Mr Fox.

And I apologise in advance for being negative BUT...

My job is to analyse companies and determine good ones from bad ones.
Good ones very often simply come down to the barriers to entry for what they do, which give them a competitive advantage.
Examples:
- Rightmove: 95% of estate agents are now signed up. A new website couldn't get the volume of properties necessary to compete.
- Virgin Media: no one can build a new fibre/cable network to the home; it's uneconomical. BT is their only threat and they have not much cash to invest in improving fibre.
- Vodafone: mobile networks are expensive and you need a licence - unfortunately too much competition.
- Apple: army of iOS app developers creating an almost unassailable barrier. Just ask Nokia.

Bad business examples:
- Airlines: surprisingly it is very easy to get the cash to start an airline. The airline industry has lost money over its history.
- Solar panel manufacturing: very labour intensive but anyone can rent some space in China and pay workers to build the things.

So what's the point?
Well, what are the barriers to entry for day trading? Zero. (Other than a small deposit.) Anyone can open account.

So, what are the chances of making money in such an industry over the long term? Well, zero.
If you think you have a successful strategy any minor advantage will be squeezed out as the thousands of others trying to do the same thing crush the benefit.

Now teaching a "successful" trading strategy IS a reasonable business because not everyone has the credibility to be able to charge £5-20k a pop. Here there are barriers to entry. That's why the question of "why, if you have a successful strategy are you TEACHING not TRADING!!??" is so important.

If making money day trading were a viable long term business then the banks would be full of math PhDs crunching numbers with super computers.
Oh wait - they are.

That's your competition. They are going to win. They have a competitive advantage: it takes many people, tens of years of study and something made by CRAY Industries.

You have a roulette wheel and a small deposit.

TL;DR
- The number of successful day traders < The number of unsuccessful day traders, which is why Mr Fox needs LUCK.

(Nevertheless he clearly made >£5k more than me today so who am I to judge.)
Thank you for your feedback, and there's no need to appologise, as I take all views as constructive, rather than negative.

It's a journey that I have started on and I've burnt all the boats, thus leaving me no option, but to attack the island. I have been taught how to trade using clear understanding of psychology, and how to be like a remora fish hanging on to the shark(banks/large hedge funds etc). I have no fear of failure, as I have accepted the reality, that if I loose every penny in my account so be it. Every trade I take now as soon as I place the trade I have written the money off, and I am comfortable with this fact, and after if it comes my way, great.
Regards
Mr Fox.


Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
AdamTheTrader said:
Very interesting read, certainly right up my street. I trade EUR/USD and GBP/USD daily (37 pips on the Euro overnight, hurrah!)

I've always considered day trading to be somewhat instinctive. You're either capable of the dealing with the mental pressures and making informed snap-decisions or you're not. For this reason I never bothered with lessons 5 years ago and I'm entirely self taught- I can assure you and all the other guys here that you easily end up losing £40k when you're just starting out with no guidance hehe

Interested to see how your trades compare to mine.

Good luck beer
Thank You.

I would disagree with you that day trading is instinctive, as "most" of my trades are planned the night before, where all the analysis, and due diligance is done. So theres no need to make snap-decisions.
Sure it does consist of instict, and that's what I do when I feel like scalping a few pips. But I do feel that as you say you need to have a very disciplined approach, and rock steady psychology.
Regards
Mr Fox

Hoofy

56,356 posts

169 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Indeed. The toughest bit is when you've taken a couple of losses in a row. Many people will be phased by this and go degen. Like anything, that's the real test of how one's psychology stands up to things.

AdamTheTrader

156 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
walm said:
If you think you have a successful strategy any minor advantage will be squeezed out as the thousands of others trying to do the same thing crush the benefit.
The first thing you learn with trading is 'find out where everyone else is going- and run in the other direction'. If you follow the crowd with over-complicated Ichimoku curves and Heikin-Ashi charts then sure, you're gonna hit a brick wall somewhere down the line.

Look at the shares of Apple- I can almost guarantee that with the forthcoming IPO from Facebook, Apple shares will hit the floor as people buy Facebook shares instead. Not because Apple have done anything wrong- but because Apple have been stupendously over-bought by investors who need somewhere safe to invest their cash in these current market conditions. It's a case of capitalising on other peoples' naivety and stupidity a lot of the time.

Mr fox said:
Thank You.

I would disagree with you that day trading is instinctive, as "most" of my trades are planned the night before, where all the analysis, and due diligance is done. So theres no need to make snap-decisions.
Sure it does consist of instict, and that's what I do when I feel like scalping a few pips. But I do feel that as you say you need to have a very disciplined approach, and rock steady psychology.
Regards
Mr Fox
Yeah it was the discipline side of things I was trying to get at. Sometimes things don't go to plan and you've got to reconsider your position before things really do start to hit the fan biggrin

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
AdamTheTrader said:
walm said:
If you think you have a successful strategy any minor advantage will be squeezed out as the thousands of others trying to do the same thing crush the benefit.
The first thing you learn with trading is 'find out where everyone else is going- and run in the other direction'. If you follow the crowd with over-complicated Ichimoku curves and Heikin-Ashi charts then sure, you're gonna hit a brick wall somewhere down the line.

Look at the shares of Apple- I can almost guarantee that with the forthcoming IPO from Facebook, Apple shares will hit the floor as people buy Facebook shares instead. Not because Apple have done anything wrong- but because Apple have been stupendously over-bought by investors who need somewhere safe to invest their cash in these current market conditions. It's a case of capitalising on other peoples' naivety and stupidity a lot of the time.

Mr fox said:
Thank You.

I would disagree with you that day trading is instinctive, as "most" of my trades are planned the night before, where all the analysis, and due diligance is done. So theres no need to make snap-decisions.
Sure it does consist of instict, and that's what I do when I feel like scalping a few pips. But I do feel that as you say you need to have a very disciplined approach, and rock steady psychology.
Regards
Mr Fox
Yeah it was the discipline side of things I was trying to get at. Sometimes things don't go to plan and you've got to reconsider your position before things really do start to hit the fan biggrin
Ah I see.
Have I taken some "big" hits. Ofcourse I have, but naturally I just see that as par for the course. I am comfortable in taking upto a maximum of 10% risk per trade... Yes. Do I do this often... No. Am I more than comfortable taking this risk... Yes.
Just be strong in your convictions, and have belief in the system you use. Afterall theres many ways to skin a cat.
;-)

JPJPJP

2,664 posts

55 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
do you set an entry and a stop loss and a stop profit as you enter?

Mr fox

Original Poster:

297 posts

38 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
JPJPJP said:
do you set an entry and a stop loss and a stop profit as you enter?
Stop-loss is a must at the start when a trade is placed, and must be placed in a technical area, rather than a guess. It must not be removed at all cost(this is your safety net), and there will be times you may get stoped out 1 pip away from your stop and then the market goes your way. Thats just tough. A stop should be moved in the same direction as your trade to "lock in the profit". I always have an expectation of where my target exit is, but this may change as the market "MAY" fly further in my direction, thus I could loose money, so I do have it in mind, but I'm mindfull to watch it.
I hope that's cleared it up for you.

Regards
Mr Fox
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