On £25k but 'poor'?! Misery thread...
Discussion
VBRJ said:
Wow, this thread is full of twists and turns!
I think we have now covered budgeting, the rights and wrongs of starting a family, the north south divide...
Have we had winter tyres yet?
I know, it's definitely the longest-running thread I've started, and being the OP I've now just become a spectator!I think we have now covered budgeting, the rights and wrongs of starting a family, the north south divide...
Have we had winter tyres yet?
Little update-
Mrs has been very good and boxed up most of the crap / ornaments and things we don't 'use'. I need to pull my finger out and pack up all of my Radio Controlled car stuff (as explained earlier, the value of which I'd get on eBay doesn't justify selling it before anyone wonders!).
Off to mum and dads tonight to finish stripping the wallpaper from the spare bedroom which will eventually be for my daughter to stay in. It's a good size and my dad has paid out for a plasterer to come and do the walls as they're in a bit of a state, so I've got to put paint up soon after too!
I've just worked out that I only have 2 weekends to get all of my stuff out of the property, which has come around faster than I thought. Found the instructions for the wardrobes so less concerned about dismantling them now!
My termination from the BT contract has cost an additional £71 - unavoidable really.
Need to phone the council and pay the final £36 odd that I owe in tax too.
It's all happening. It's like going backwards.
Well, D-day is upon us (moving out tomorrow)
Typically the car has decided to require work, with dodgey front shock absorbers and then eating its' own fanbelt on Saturday I've had to up the spending on the credit card briefly - but it will all be paid off before long. To think I almost sold the car and bought an Alfa Romeo earlier in the year too...
Mrs is still upset about the whole thing, losing our personal space etc. It's not going to be easy by any stretch, but we're getting there.
I've sourced a HDD and tower to install the PC parts which were kindly donated to me by a fellow PHer, so hopefully once I'm all set up I can start to bring some extra money in.
On top of all this, finally some good news - my MD approached me last week to say that he is aware a payrise is 'long overdue' so we will see what the future holds out for me. It could mean even less time spent lodging with my parents.
Typically the car has decided to require work, with dodgey front shock absorbers and then eating its' own fanbelt on Saturday I've had to up the spending on the credit card briefly - but it will all be paid off before long. To think I almost sold the car and bought an Alfa Romeo earlier in the year too...
Mrs is still upset about the whole thing, losing our personal space etc. It's not going to be easy by any stretch, but we're getting there.
I've sourced a HDD and tower to install the PC parts which were kindly donated to me by a fellow PHer, so hopefully once I'm all set up I can start to bring some extra money in.
On top of all this, finally some good news - my MD approached me last week to say that he is aware a payrise is 'long overdue' so we will see what the future holds out for me. It could mean even less time spent lodging with my parents.
6 Week update time...
Things are OK back home, for me anyway, I'm actually not struggling with the lack of personal space at all. The Mrs on the other hand...
She's gone a bit mental, had a few teary moments etc.
I've only managed to clear £600 so far, with £4k to go. I paid 900 off at the beginning of the month but had to spend £100 on a pair of tyres and then some on ball joints / droplinks which failed on the car. Now I have justified keeping that for at least the next 12 months as I didn't want to spend any money on it if it could be helped.
Friends and family are insisting that we put our names down on the council housing list. This is something I've always tried to avoid because until now we've been able to afford living privately renting, but the sudden realisation last year that this is money just being put down the drain has led to us moving back home. I'm still wondering whether to just swallow my pride and get my name down on the list - despite waiting times being several years for our area.
If I can convince the Mrs to stay at home for even longer (without her killing me) then ideally I'd like to save for a mortgage. House prices are only going up - much faster than I can save. I still haven't had the time or motivation to look into what I would actually need to get onto the property ladder. I've seen part-rent part-buy offers but don't really understand them fully and 5% mortgages too - but these would put the monthly repayments back up to the same £700-800 per month which was almost un-managable as a rent payment. I guess I lack enthusiasm to look into this because there's the 'elephant in the room' is the significant lack of any form of deposit!
Other good news as of yesterday, my salary has increased because we have taken on a lot more work recently. The raise means an additional £200-ish a month in my pocket every month, so a healthy addition!
I still think I need 4 months to clear the £4k before I can even consider any other option but privately renting again.
Things are OK back home, for me anyway, I'm actually not struggling with the lack of personal space at all. The Mrs on the other hand...
She's gone a bit mental, had a few teary moments etc.
I've only managed to clear £600 so far, with £4k to go. I paid 900 off at the beginning of the month but had to spend £100 on a pair of tyres and then some on ball joints / droplinks which failed on the car. Now I have justified keeping that for at least the next 12 months as I didn't want to spend any money on it if it could be helped.
Friends and family are insisting that we put our names down on the council housing list. This is something I've always tried to avoid because until now we've been able to afford living privately renting, but the sudden realisation last year that this is money just being put down the drain has led to us moving back home. I'm still wondering whether to just swallow my pride and get my name down on the list - despite waiting times being several years for our area.
If I can convince the Mrs to stay at home for even longer (without her killing me) then ideally I'd like to save for a mortgage. House prices are only going up - much faster than I can save. I still haven't had the time or motivation to look into what I would actually need to get onto the property ladder. I've seen part-rent part-buy offers but don't really understand them fully and 5% mortgages too - but these would put the monthly repayments back up to the same £700-800 per month which was almost un-managable as a rent payment. I guess I lack enthusiasm to look into this because there's the 'elephant in the room' is the significant lack of any form of deposit!
Other good news as of yesterday, my salary has increased because we have taken on a lot more work recently. The raise means an additional £200-ish a month in my pocket every month, so a healthy addition!
I still think I need 4 months to clear the £4k before I can even consider any other option but privately renting again.
4 month update time!
Financial bit -
I have got the debt down to 2,700 from the 4,600 it was at the end of March, basically I'm 3 big 'payments' in. That's an average of just over 600, not quite the 1000/month I originally wanted
There are lots of reasons for it - car needed some work doing (and still does) and I had to bite the bullet and get it done (myself, so paid for parts only). Been a bit irresponsible with money and had to spend out more at the weekends to get the Mrs out of the parents house - she's fed up with living there and consequently we're out most weekends visiting family / going places, which costs money.
On the plus side I've just been given a raise - not sure if this is mentioned in the thread yet - but now on 28,500 pa. Mrs has taken on more hours at work where plausible but we don't have a grandparent physically able to look after our daughter so this is proving very difficult.
So my target now is to be debt-free after the next 3 pay-days which will put me right at the end of September.
I think we're going to end up back in private renting again by the end of the year, lining someone elses' pockets / paying their mortgage for them.
It's depressing, but it's life and there's no alternative. No savings, no opportunity to increase my personal income further.
Looking at current rent prices these have gone up locally too - a place very similar to that which we were renting when I started my thread is listed at 850pcm, some 135 more than it was 12 months ago. But we will pay it, because we have no choice.
We went to the council offices to get our names 'on the list' but they basically told us not to bother, since we are both fincancially well-off compared to most applicants (?!)
I did have a spontaneous head in the clouds moment last month after getting my payrise, I approached the bank for a fictional mortgage application. Even 'if' I could have raised the 10,000 deposit I suggested was possibe then the loan amount from Natwest would be 140k (93% LTV). House prices locally are now exceeding 180k for a basic 2-bed, so it's looking like a very unrealistic prospect at the moment.
The personal side of it-
Me and the Mrs are getting very fed up, down in the dumps. We've tried going out in the evenings for meals or to the cinema, but both are expensive things to do (30 a pop!) when you're trying to save money.
I now need to look at getting the family out of my parents house as soon as the debt is paid off. We will be ~ 280 better-off every month purely based on the lack of credit card interest and my recent payrise (which accounts for 190 of it!). But what with the increased rent prices I think we'll probably only notice 100 of it which we will burn through easily!
Trying not to sound like a completely miserable b*stard writing this but I've got a family which is unhappy and I'm working as hard as possible to get us into a happier situation and it doesn't feel like it's working.
Financial bit -
I have got the debt down to 2,700 from the 4,600 it was at the end of March, basically I'm 3 big 'payments' in. That's an average of just over 600, not quite the 1000/month I originally wanted
There are lots of reasons for it - car needed some work doing (and still does) and I had to bite the bullet and get it done (myself, so paid for parts only). Been a bit irresponsible with money and had to spend out more at the weekends to get the Mrs out of the parents house - she's fed up with living there and consequently we're out most weekends visiting family / going places, which costs money.
On the plus side I've just been given a raise - not sure if this is mentioned in the thread yet - but now on 28,500 pa. Mrs has taken on more hours at work where plausible but we don't have a grandparent physically able to look after our daughter so this is proving very difficult.
So my target now is to be debt-free after the next 3 pay-days which will put me right at the end of September.
I think we're going to end up back in private renting again by the end of the year, lining someone elses' pockets / paying their mortgage for them.
It's depressing, but it's life and there's no alternative. No savings, no opportunity to increase my personal income further.
Looking at current rent prices these have gone up locally too - a place very similar to that which we were renting when I started my thread is listed at 850pcm, some 135 more than it was 12 months ago. But we will pay it, because we have no choice.
We went to the council offices to get our names 'on the list' but they basically told us not to bother, since we are both fincancially well-off compared to most applicants (?!)
I did have a spontaneous head in the clouds moment last month after getting my payrise, I approached the bank for a fictional mortgage application. Even 'if' I could have raised the 10,000 deposit I suggested was possibe then the loan amount from Natwest would be 140k (93% LTV). House prices locally are now exceeding 180k for a basic 2-bed, so it's looking like a very unrealistic prospect at the moment.
The personal side of it-
Me and the Mrs are getting very fed up, down in the dumps. We've tried going out in the evenings for meals or to the cinema, but both are expensive things to do (30 a pop!) when you're trying to save money.
I now need to look at getting the family out of my parents house as soon as the debt is paid off. We will be ~ 280 better-off every month purely based on the lack of credit card interest and my recent payrise (which accounts for 190 of it!). But what with the increased rent prices I think we'll probably only notice 100 of it which we will burn through easily!
Trying not to sound like a completely miserable b*stard writing this but I've got a family which is unhappy and I'm working as hard as possible to get us into a happier situation and it doesn't feel like it's working.
Cheers for all the encouraging comments so far. I know it will be worth it in the long run! It's the light at the end of the tunnel we can't see right now.
I have things I can sell, but they don't amount to much. I have a stack of things I'll be putting on eBay but don't expect to make much more than £200 from it. I drive a car worth ~£800 so down-sizing that isn't an option either.
I reckon being strict I could be clear of the debt by August, if I clear £1050 in June and the same in July.
I've drafted up a spreadsheet of my debt which I'll print off and show the Mrs because I think the one thing that annoys her is that she can't see where the money is going, I'm hoping that by showing her she will understand it better.
MajorProblem said:
How about "split up" mrs will get on priority housing list and receive a ton of benefits. Job jobbed.
The worst part is that this is what one of the council officers said to us. It's a sad state of affairs when even the council realises this is the only 'hack'.I have things I can sell, but they don't amount to much. I have a stack of things I'll be putting on eBay but don't expect to make much more than £200 from it. I drive a car worth ~£800 so down-sizing that isn't an option either.
I reckon being strict I could be clear of the debt by August, if I clear £1050 in June and the same in July.
I've drafted up a spreadsheet of my debt which I'll print off and show the Mrs because I think the one thing that annoys her is that she can't see where the money is going, I'm hoping that by showing her she will understand it better.
Thanks for all the response. I will keep updating.
Kozy - terrible news fella, doesn't fill me with confidence. We are both fairly open with our spending but perhaps I don't show her enough. As mentioned by another post, I am the main breadwinner and I'm always criticised for referring to the income as 'my money' when in fact it is 'our money'. I need to find a way of making things more transparent so that she can appreciate where it's all going. Hopefully you guys don't chizzle away at that debt too much whilst in rented acommodation.
My Mrs does want to expand the family - as do I - but the difference is that I want a secure foundation for that to happen, whereas she is more of a 'do it and see' or 'we'll cope' kind of mindset. We 'coped' with our daughter but neither of us will admit it was easy and it certainly wasn't the rosy start to parenthood I wanted for our family. We did manage to 'piggyback' a holiday last year with my parents, but it was at the cost of delaying an electricity bill and a £500 hand-out from her dad. We spent the lot and we were budgeting! This year we have put any thoughts of a holiday firmly on hold (well, I have...).
Trashbat - I hear what you're saying and I know that you're right, but when I'm physically and emotionally exhausted I'd struggle to cook a meal. We have the upstairs bedroom and my daughters bedroom, everywhere else in the house (quite rightly) is shared with my folks. They (try to) go out at least twice a week to give us a free house, but this is where it becomes even more of a sob-story. My mother (I may have mentioned already) has MS and is completely unable to move. My dad (probably as a direct result) has bouts of depression and works hard all through the week, so they are often both too exhausted to go out at all. Often we don't get any time to ourselves so no opportunity has arisen to try and be romantic or spontaneous.
MauiJim - I completely agree. I'm being too discrete, too secretive and not sharing my ideas and aspirations for our family with my other half. I think I'm mostly to blame because I'm trying to protect her from the truth - that it's not pretty and the following months are going to be difficult. It's far from over, I know that - but I don't think she fully appreciates it. She absolutely flew off the handle yesterday when I announced that we are still 3 payslips from being 'debt free' - she thought it would all be over by July (as per our original plan).
The main problem is that we don't have a 'plan' in place. We might go back to privately renting, we might save for a deposit. There's no "we're doing this" and there's no target as a result, so all she sees is misery. At the moment she regrets moving out altogether because our quality of life has taken a nosedive (from her perspective) and we don't have our own space. We were (to her) 'better off' when we were privately renting, living hand-to-mouth. And she's right, but there's no way I would have shifted the £4k of debt without taking these measures.
The problem is with our friends / peers. Most of the people we grew up with have gone down the following paths-
-Work at Supermarkets / similar jobs, got their name on the social housing list at 16/18 and now live comfortably in subsidised acommodation.
-Work in offices and have successfully started buying or are saving for their own place. These people are either single or have no desire to start a family however.
A 6% mortgage is damned expensive - we're talking upwards of £850pcm in repayments for at least 5 years. However, local rent prices dictate that we would be paying similar but gaining nothing, with the only advantage being that we are not obliged / contracted to stay anywhere longer than 4 weeks. That's a disadvantage too, since we've been bitten in the past when the landlord evicted us because they needed their property back for a family emergency.
I need advice and I need to share the advice with my Mrs. If we're sticking it out for the long-term and trying for a house we need to make that decision now and not later.
Sorry if I've waffled-on a bit, there's a lot worth discussing. I have read all the replies and responded to as many as possible!
Thanks for the continued support (and honesty!)
Kozy - terrible news fella, doesn't fill me with confidence. We are both fairly open with our spending but perhaps I don't show her enough. As mentioned by another post, I am the main breadwinner and I'm always criticised for referring to the income as 'my money' when in fact it is 'our money'. I need to find a way of making things more transparent so that she can appreciate where it's all going. Hopefully you guys don't chizzle away at that debt too much whilst in rented acommodation.
My Mrs does want to expand the family - as do I - but the difference is that I want a secure foundation for that to happen, whereas she is more of a 'do it and see' or 'we'll cope' kind of mindset. We 'coped' with our daughter but neither of us will admit it was easy and it certainly wasn't the rosy start to parenthood I wanted for our family. We did manage to 'piggyback' a holiday last year with my parents, but it was at the cost of delaying an electricity bill and a £500 hand-out from her dad. We spent the lot and we were budgeting! This year we have put any thoughts of a holiday firmly on hold (well, I have...).
Trashbat - I hear what you're saying and I know that you're right, but when I'm physically and emotionally exhausted I'd struggle to cook a meal. We have the upstairs bedroom and my daughters bedroom, everywhere else in the house (quite rightly) is shared with my folks. They (try to) go out at least twice a week to give us a free house, but this is where it becomes even more of a sob-story. My mother (I may have mentioned already) has MS and is completely unable to move. My dad (probably as a direct result) has bouts of depression and works hard all through the week, so they are often both too exhausted to go out at all. Often we don't get any time to ourselves so no opportunity has arisen to try and be romantic or spontaneous.
MauiJim - I completely agree. I'm being too discrete, too secretive and not sharing my ideas and aspirations for our family with my other half. I think I'm mostly to blame because I'm trying to protect her from the truth - that it's not pretty and the following months are going to be difficult. It's far from over, I know that - but I don't think she fully appreciates it. She absolutely flew off the handle yesterday when I announced that we are still 3 payslips from being 'debt free' - she thought it would all be over by July (as per our original plan).
The main problem is that we don't have a 'plan' in place. We might go back to privately renting, we might save for a deposit. There's no "we're doing this" and there's no target as a result, so all she sees is misery. At the moment she regrets moving out altogether because our quality of life has taken a nosedive (from her perspective) and we don't have our own space. We were (to her) 'better off' when we were privately renting, living hand-to-mouth. And she's right, but there's no way I would have shifted the £4k of debt without taking these measures.
The problem is with our friends / peers. Most of the people we grew up with have gone down the following paths-
-Work at Supermarkets / similar jobs, got their name on the social housing list at 16/18 and now live comfortably in subsidised acommodation.
-Work in offices and have successfully started buying or are saving for their own place. These people are either single or have no desire to start a family however.
A 6% mortgage is damned expensive - we're talking upwards of £850pcm in repayments for at least 5 years. However, local rent prices dictate that we would be paying similar but gaining nothing, with the only advantage being that we are not obliged / contracted to stay anywhere longer than 4 weeks. That's a disadvantage too, since we've been bitten in the past when the landlord evicted us because they needed their property back for a family emergency.
I need advice and I need to share the advice with my Mrs. If we're sticking it out for the long-term and trying for a house we need to make that decision now and not later.
Sorry if I've waffled-on a bit, there's a lot worth discussing. I have read all the replies and responded to as many as possible!
Thanks for the continued support (and honesty!)
Thanks for all the extended and thought-out responses, I am reading them!
MauiJim-
'Temporarily' offloading my daughter is a pain, since we don't really have any close family who are able to look after her. I have an older sister who is pursuing her career and very busy, my mother (as mentioned) is disabled and my father is her carer whenever he is home. Mrs parents split long ago, we don't like to associate with her mums' partner (bit of a tw*t) and that's about it! So we are stuck with her - but we're not complaining, we didn't have her for someone else to look after her.
We have agreed to formulate a mutually agreeable plan between us in the short term and like another poster said for the next 12 / 18 / 24 months and where we would like to be after that period. The build-up of stress staying at my parents seems to culminate in a hefty argument every 4 weeks at the moment and then it settles again.
Option 1 on your list would be ideal (in my view) but in light of recent events it might not be the best for our relationship. I estimate a £12k deposit (plus fees!) could take 10-12 months to save for.
Option 2 will interest her, but I'm worried about building up a 'rainy day' fund then having to use it and immediately be in trouble again, because when we were living in private accommodation (pre-payrise) we were spending our entire income ±£100 every month and would be knackered with every unexpectedly-high bill.
Option 3 just sounds like I'll end up spunking what I save on a new car / family holiday as that would be 'improving' our quality of life, albeit a pretty selfish / short term way of doing it!
Hell27-
My Mrs is bored. Very bored. She's better on the days where she has lots to do - like take our daughter to the park / playgroup and then work in the evenings. I think the monotony of being stuck inside the same room most days is what does her head in.
Keeping us in Herts - family mainly, we don't know anyone outside of Herts and being young parents with little-to-no childcare means we get maybe 1 opportunity a month to socialise! That's going to be tough to make new friends I think. But I haven't entirely ruled it out, especially if she passes her driving test in the next few months.
CAD is now playing a role in my work, as I'm absorbing work from other departments in an attempt to get to a higher tier / better salary. 'Extra' CAD work would be lovely, but I've no idea when I'd fit it in around work and family. I have the facility and the desire, but not the time.
I'll have to respond to Paul O another time as I need to run to beat the traffic lights at the end of the road!
Thanks again people.
MauiJim-
'Temporarily' offloading my daughter is a pain, since we don't really have any close family who are able to look after her. I have an older sister who is pursuing her career and very busy, my mother (as mentioned) is disabled and my father is her carer whenever he is home. Mrs parents split long ago, we don't like to associate with her mums' partner (bit of a tw*t) and that's about it! So we are stuck with her - but we're not complaining, we didn't have her for someone else to look after her.
We have agreed to formulate a mutually agreeable plan between us in the short term and like another poster said for the next 12 / 18 / 24 months and where we would like to be after that period. The build-up of stress staying at my parents seems to culminate in a hefty argument every 4 weeks at the moment and then it settles again.
Option 1 on your list would be ideal (in my view) but in light of recent events it might not be the best for our relationship. I estimate a £12k deposit (plus fees!) could take 10-12 months to save for.
Option 2 will interest her, but I'm worried about building up a 'rainy day' fund then having to use it and immediately be in trouble again, because when we were living in private accommodation (pre-payrise) we were spending our entire income ±£100 every month and would be knackered with every unexpectedly-high bill.
Option 3 just sounds like I'll end up spunking what I save on a new car / family holiday as that would be 'improving' our quality of life, albeit a pretty selfish / short term way of doing it!
Hell27-
My Mrs is bored. Very bored. She's better on the days where she has lots to do - like take our daughter to the park / playgroup and then work in the evenings. I think the monotony of being stuck inside the same room most days is what does her head in.
Keeping us in Herts - family mainly, we don't know anyone outside of Herts and being young parents with little-to-no childcare means we get maybe 1 opportunity a month to socialise! That's going to be tough to make new friends I think. But I haven't entirely ruled it out, especially if she passes her driving test in the next few months.
CAD is now playing a role in my work, as I'm absorbing work from other departments in an attempt to get to a higher tier / better salary. 'Extra' CAD work would be lovely, but I've no idea when I'd fit it in around work and family. I have the facility and the desire, but not the time.
I'll have to respond to Paul O another time as I need to run to beat the traffic lights at the end of the road!
Thanks again people.
okgo said:
Lots of people are sensible and wait until its feasible to have kids, LOTS more people are not. Most of them fall into a certain category of person.
Lots of people get hung up on trying to 'categorise' people in society, fortunately while there are many posts like this in my thread I'm thick-skinned enough to completely ignore them and the lack of thought which went into writing them.I have made an appointment to talk to an advisor this weekened mainly just to establish whether or not 'buying' is really for us or if it is more of a pipe dream.
I'm learning more and more about mortgages as I go, but it's a confusing world and nobody (banks, building societies) will even acknowledge you unless you at least have a deposit / some equity. We have none, obviously.
I figure we can put away £1,000 a month at my current salary. I'm also considering moving on from where I am, at the risk of losing the stability this position has (will shortly be leading this department). Despite the recent (and substantial) payrise, I still feel like I'm worth more to this company and what I think a competitor could quite easily see that if I spoke with them. We'll see...
Craikeybaby said:
I don't think that really helps the OP much, the point of this thread is to get the OP into a better position.
OP - have you worked out short/mid/long term plans with your girlfriend?
Not as yet, I'm going to wait until we have had this meeting to see whether we need to rule out buying our own house or make it a realistic 'target'. We want to have another child, before our daughter gets much older as we don't want there to be a big age gap. If that means sacrificing a home of our own then so be it, I know there are lot of spectators to this thread that find it difficult to comprehend, this is often because they don't have a family or a desire to start one though!OP - have you worked out short/mid/long term plans with your girlfriend?
will-w said:
I'm in pretty much the same position as the OP, it's a pretty rough place to be and gives me all kinds of nightmares trying to work out what to do next.
We currently pay £800 a month rent for a small-ish 2 bed semi. Flats in the immediate area are £700-£800 so we got it quite cheap.
It would be more expensive to buy (mortgage around £1,000) but I'd rather do that than waste money on rent. However, there is no way we could afford the deposit to buy. Our neighbour has just put their house (which is identical to ours) for £295,000. Take stamp duty into account, legal fees and a 5% deposit - that's £20,000.
There are however advantages of renting with a young family. If our boiler breaks, we call the landlord and he fixes it. If the oven breaks, we call the landlord and he replaces it. We don't have to spend the next 5 financially difficult years worrying about the possible big bills to roll in.
Swings and roundabouts I say
Indeed, there are definitely 'pros' to renting. However, the exceptional rate which landlords are now charging (and it's a strong market) seem dis-proportionate to the property you get for your money.We currently pay £800 a month rent for a small-ish 2 bed semi. Flats in the immediate area are £700-£800 so we got it quite cheap.
It would be more expensive to buy (mortgage around £1,000) but I'd rather do that than waste money on rent. However, there is no way we could afford the deposit to buy. Our neighbour has just put their house (which is identical to ours) for £295,000. Take stamp duty into account, legal fees and a 5% deposit - that's £20,000.
There are however advantages of renting with a young family. If our boiler breaks, we call the landlord and he fixes it. If the oven breaks, we call the landlord and he replaces it. We don't have to spend the next 5 financially difficult years worrying about the possible big bills to roll in.
Swings and roundabouts I say
When we moved out 2 years ago I had no idea we would be moving back home with Mum and Dad. Our first place was rented for £675 and it was a flat - you can't even get a flat (aside from a bedsit) for that money any more. The house we moved to was £715 PCM, which we struggled with. Identical properties are now up for £850 PCM just 18 months later.
£850 is a mortgage repayment on a 95% mortgage for a much, much bigger property in this area.
The cost is obviously driven up by demand, of which there is a lot, probably because a lot of people my age find themselves in this predicament.
I can turn my hand to most things and the industry I'm in means that I know a lot of builders / plumbers, so I could consider a property which needed work too. It's just that all-important deposit I need to get anywhere.
If I go back to private renting I might have ~ £100 spare per month which I could save or spend on holidays etc.
If I proceed with a mortgage I will be in the same position, albeit my hard-earned money won't be lining someone elses pockets and actually be counting for something.
It seemed surprising to the mortgage advisor at Natwest (who wasn't interested in taking the conversation any further) that a family member wouldn't 'gift' me the £20k.
Do people really get £20k 'gifts'?! Struck me as odd.
Unfortunately some of those 'pros' to renting haven't exactly been the reality I have experienced.
For instance, when the boiler packed up at the first property the landlord sent someone out who determined that; yes, it was definitely faulty. This diagnosis took 4 days. The landlord then spent 5 weeks ignoring the agency / the agency ignoring us before it was eventually replaced. It's all very well saying that you just 'withhold rent' until these problems are fixed but the reality is very different.
I concede that it would have obviously cost me more to have it done if it was my property, but I could have borrowed the money from family and had it replaced immediately instead of going nearly 6 weeks with no hot water. Fortunately this was during the summer!
The same occurred at our second place when the power shower stopped working. That took nearly 2 weeks and a lot of hassle to resolve.
I'll admit that my experience is limited to 2 privately rented places under 2 different agents / landlords, but in both instances the experience was crap the moment you had a problem.
That is one 'pro' I don't accept anymore until proven otherwise!
For instance, when the boiler packed up at the first property the landlord sent someone out who determined that; yes, it was definitely faulty. This diagnosis took 4 days. The landlord then spent 5 weeks ignoring the agency / the agency ignoring us before it was eventually replaced. It's all very well saying that you just 'withhold rent' until these problems are fixed but the reality is very different.
I concede that it would have obviously cost me more to have it done if it was my property, but I could have borrowed the money from family and had it replaced immediately instead of going nearly 6 weeks with no hot water. Fortunately this was during the summer!
The same occurred at our second place when the power shower stopped working. That took nearly 2 weeks and a lot of hassle to resolve.
I'll admit that my experience is limited to 2 privately rented places under 2 different agents / landlords, but in both instances the experience was crap the moment you had a problem.
That is one 'pro' I don't accept anymore until proven otherwise!
So I had my meeting with the mortgage people on Saturday (in amongst the chaos caused by the EDL march in Stevenage).
Basically we cannot consider anything without the deposit backing - something we knew beforehand. The deposit amount varies depending on what avenue we take - if we want to buy our own place outright then he thinks £9k will afford me a £187k mortgage plus fees (so £12k+ realistically). I'd be looking at 10-12 months more with mum & dad if I can get that kind of money together.
We will likely pass the 'affordability' checks, we both work, we don't gamble and the only outstanding debt is the credit cards which are almost cleared. Never had any ccj's or been refused credit etc. I think he did the calculations based on the credit card debt still being in the region of £2k, so it really didn't make that much difference to our application.
Then there's shared ownership, which we hadn't really considered before. I'm struggling to work out the pro's and cons to this scheme and whether it is worthwhile pursuing it further. The deposit requirement is approximately half depending on the percentage of the shared ownership you go after (ie. 50-60%). The concern is that it is not possible to calculate what the HA will charge you in rent on the remaining value of the property. There's also a lot of scare stories online about shared ownership and my friend who works at a local law firm says he wouldn't recommend it unless we had no other option.
So..
I can try to pursue the whole frugal living thing for another 12 months with the aim of earning enough for a deposit, in the hope that these 6-8% price increases on property don't actually take hold. The only way I can speed this process up is to borrow money from family, which I didn't really want to do. With a mortgage and bills coming in I've no practical idea of what I will be able to pay back each month. Obviously if we consider my current situation as -
£1800 income (approx)
£300 housekeeping / rent
£1000 debt repayment
£500 living costs
Theoretically if the mortgage repayments, council tax and utility bills sum less than £1000/month I could afford to pay back what we are currently paying in housekeeping off a family loan.
However that isn't the case, since an estimated repayment on a mortgage is going to be anywhere between £850-925. Top that up with council tax @ £130ish, utility bills @ £150 and I've eaten into that £300 to the tune of £130 - 205.
Obviously this leaves little in terms of a 'rainy day' fund also. We currently have no plans for a holiday and the family car could do with replacing (old Pug 306). The £500 living costs I've calculated could probably go further, but I'm struggling to see how we can save more. £200 of that goes on fuel and insurance for the car every month as it is.
So as of today we are still no closer to having a 'plan', we just have a slightly better idea of what's available to us and our options (as well as a ton of reading material).
If we go back to renting we're looking at a £750-850 rent payment plus council tax plus utility bills, with the only advantage being that we could move out immediately.
As always, any input / help much appreciated.
Basically we cannot consider anything without the deposit backing - something we knew beforehand. The deposit amount varies depending on what avenue we take - if we want to buy our own place outright then he thinks £9k will afford me a £187k mortgage plus fees (so £12k+ realistically). I'd be looking at 10-12 months more with mum & dad if I can get that kind of money together.
We will likely pass the 'affordability' checks, we both work, we don't gamble and the only outstanding debt is the credit cards which are almost cleared. Never had any ccj's or been refused credit etc. I think he did the calculations based on the credit card debt still being in the region of £2k, so it really didn't make that much difference to our application.
Then there's shared ownership, which we hadn't really considered before. I'm struggling to work out the pro's and cons to this scheme and whether it is worthwhile pursuing it further. The deposit requirement is approximately half depending on the percentage of the shared ownership you go after (ie. 50-60%). The concern is that it is not possible to calculate what the HA will charge you in rent on the remaining value of the property. There's also a lot of scare stories online about shared ownership and my friend who works at a local law firm says he wouldn't recommend it unless we had no other option.
So..
I can try to pursue the whole frugal living thing for another 12 months with the aim of earning enough for a deposit, in the hope that these 6-8% price increases on property don't actually take hold. The only way I can speed this process up is to borrow money from family, which I didn't really want to do. With a mortgage and bills coming in I've no practical idea of what I will be able to pay back each month. Obviously if we consider my current situation as -
£1800 income (approx)
£300 housekeeping / rent
£1000 debt repayment
£500 living costs
Theoretically if the mortgage repayments, council tax and utility bills sum less than £1000/month I could afford to pay back what we are currently paying in housekeeping off a family loan.
However that isn't the case, since an estimated repayment on a mortgage is going to be anywhere between £850-925. Top that up with council tax @ £130ish, utility bills @ £150 and I've eaten into that £300 to the tune of £130 - 205.
Obviously this leaves little in terms of a 'rainy day' fund also. We currently have no plans for a holiday and the family car could do with replacing (old Pug 306). The £500 living costs I've calculated could probably go further, but I'm struggling to see how we can save more. £200 of that goes on fuel and insurance for the car every month as it is.
So as of today we are still no closer to having a 'plan', we just have a slightly better idea of what's available to us and our options (as well as a ton of reading material).
If we go back to renting we're looking at a £750-850 rent payment plus council tax plus utility bills, with the only advantage being that we could move out immediately.
As always, any input / help much appreciated.
I predicted as much.
The problem with speaking to a mortgage advisor is that their interest is in trying to sell you a product, so they're unlikely to have ever given me 'the right kind' of advice, ie. unbiased.
The problem being that whatever path we choose, we will not be living 'comfortably', not even if I get the £30k salary I'm chasing.
So when it came down to it, if I was spending £800+ a month on either rent or a mortgage I'd rather it be the latter, purely for the fact that I stand to gain something if the house prices don't collapse.
Renting would make sense if it weren't for 'greedy' landlords, but this is all governed by supply and demand for which there is clearly an imbalance, driving the cost of renting up to an un-manageable high.
We won't be going on family holidays if we rent, but we wouldn't be going on them if we were to try and buy either. It's lose lose as far as quality of life is concerned! It's just depressing TBH.
The problem with speaking to a mortgage advisor is that their interest is in trying to sell you a product, so they're unlikely to have ever given me 'the right kind' of advice, ie. unbiased.
The problem being that whatever path we choose, we will not be living 'comfortably', not even if I get the £30k salary I'm chasing.
So when it came down to it, if I was spending £800+ a month on either rent or a mortgage I'd rather it be the latter, purely for the fact that I stand to gain something if the house prices don't collapse.
Renting would make sense if it weren't for 'greedy' landlords, but this is all governed by supply and demand for which there is clearly an imbalance, driving the cost of renting up to an un-manageable high.
We won't be going on family holidays if we rent, but we wouldn't be going on them if we were to try and buy either. It's lose lose as far as quality of life is concerned! It's just depressing TBH.
okgo said:
Yet numerous times you've been told to move to a cheaper area and you continue to ignore this advice. Remind me why your Mrs doesn't work again?
I have been advised by others to move further afield - something I'm not opposed to. However, there is nowhere within a commutable distance to where I work that offers enough of a cost saving to make it viable. This is the unfortunate situation we find ourselves in that house prices / rent typically are very high for this part of the country.My Mrs does work, keep up at the back!
MajorProblem said:
Why not apply for work elsewhere then?
Because-This job is secure
It pays well
There is an opportunity to progress in the next few months (hence the £30k target)
I have no qualifications / higher education. I'm just an experienced worker. Nobody seems interested in hiring me into other jobs.
I wouldn't completely rule it out, but it's a pretty unrealistic aim at present.
And a motorbike would see me dead in no time. I'm absolutely hopeless on a pushbike, let alone something even quicker.
I'd love to be paid more, I certainly feel like I work harder than my pay reflects.
However, with no higher education / degree then employers simply dismiss my application. I went through the process a few months ago prior to getting my payrise in May and had no interest / couldn't find a suitable position.
I travel 18 miles to work via the nightmare that is the A602 every day. I also car share to try and save even more money.
I think a motorbike would end up costing me more money since I'd need to obtain a license, a motorbike and equipment and would still need a car to get my family around, so two lots of insurance also. It would be a long while before the cost savings were actually recognised. And there's the aforementioned likely event I would kill myself.
However, with no higher education / degree then employers simply dismiss my application. I went through the process a few months ago prior to getting my payrise in May and had no interest / couldn't find a suitable position.
I travel 18 miles to work via the nightmare that is the A602 every day. I also car share to try and save even more money.
I think a motorbike would end up costing me more money since I'd need to obtain a license, a motorbike and equipment and would still need a car to get my family around, so two lots of insurance also. It would be a long while before the cost savings were actually recognised. And there's the aforementioned likely event I would kill myself.
Your calculations probably aren't far wrong, which is why I try my best not to look at other peoples' situations, even when they are former peers of mine who I attended school with and I see regular updates of their holiday(s) on the likes of Facebook!
I'm not after more benefit, that's not how I want to live. I'm hoping that by having spent some time with my mum and dad and living frugally for a few months that even if we go back to private renting at circa £800/month we will have more money left in the pot.
I'm not after more benefit, that's not how I want to live. I'm hoping that by having spent some time with my mum and dad and living frugally for a few months that even if we go back to private renting at circa £800/month we will have more money left in the pot.
Update:
Home ownership is now off the cards for the foreseeable.
Even if we can raise a 5% deposit to get a grasp of a 95% LTV mortgage our monthly outgoings will be significantly higher. Yes, rent prices have gone up locally, but I think the security of being able to chuck in the towel and move straight out if the sh*t hits the fan is probably better for us.
What has changed my opinion drastically over the last few days is seeing a friend of a friend who recently got involved in this 'help to buy' scheme for first-time buyers. Only he doesn't really own it. He owns a share in it which he is funding at quite high monthly repayments. They've recently had a baby and were told they couldn't decorate the bedroom they had intended for use as a nursery. We had more freedom in rented accomodation than that!
The plan now is to go back into rented accommodation, perhaps a bit further afield. We have accepted that a decent place could easily run to £850 PCM, but if we are strict with outgoings we can do it without slipping back into debt again.
Before moving out I want to have a 'contingency' fund of around £2k - way more than it needs to be, but if it's there we can dip into it and build it back up. Better than a credit card, I think.
Mrs is learning to drive and looking at passing in the next few weeks. Whilst this will bring in even more expense it does open up her work opportunities.
I'm transferring all of the debt to an interest-free credit card (0.5% transfer fee) as the interest-free period is coming to a close on one of my cards. There's only a small amount left to clear, but it makes sense to not be paying interest on top.
In other un-related news I have updated my CV and I'll hear back later this week about a potential job interview. The job is better-geared to my qualifications too. Whether this gives me leverage in my current position to point out that they're taking the p*ss (the other job is closer to home and a similar / higher salary) or if it's just time to move on. In 2010/11 I was on £25k plus comission (typically £600-800 per quarter) and it's taken me til 2014 to get back to a similar income but working much harder, further away and under much more stress! It's simply not sustainable despite the recent 14% (!) payrise.
I have taken on-board everything mentioned in here, from the sensible to the extreme. I'll be building a home office in the near future (haven't the space yet) so I can open up the opportunity to work from home or out of hours. It was the following which really stuck, despite others having said it more eloquently earlier in the thread this put everything into context :
Home ownership is now off the cards for the foreseeable.
Even if we can raise a 5% deposit to get a grasp of a 95% LTV mortgage our monthly outgoings will be significantly higher. Yes, rent prices have gone up locally, but I think the security of being able to chuck in the towel and move straight out if the sh*t hits the fan is probably better for us.
What has changed my opinion drastically over the last few days is seeing a friend of a friend who recently got involved in this 'help to buy' scheme for first-time buyers. Only he doesn't really own it. He owns a share in it which he is funding at quite high monthly repayments. They've recently had a baby and were told they couldn't decorate the bedroom they had intended for use as a nursery. We had more freedom in rented accomodation than that!
The plan now is to go back into rented accommodation, perhaps a bit further afield. We have accepted that a decent place could easily run to £850 PCM, but if we are strict with outgoings we can do it without slipping back into debt again.
Before moving out I want to have a 'contingency' fund of around £2k - way more than it needs to be, but if it's there we can dip into it and build it back up. Better than a credit card, I think.
Mrs is learning to drive and looking at passing in the next few weeks. Whilst this will bring in even more expense it does open up her work opportunities.
I'm transferring all of the debt to an interest-free credit card (0.5% transfer fee) as the interest-free period is coming to a close on one of my cards. There's only a small amount left to clear, but it makes sense to not be paying interest on top.
In other un-related news I have updated my CV and I'll hear back later this week about a potential job interview. The job is better-geared to my qualifications too. Whether this gives me leverage in my current position to point out that they're taking the p*ss (the other job is closer to home and a similar / higher salary) or if it's just time to move on. In 2010/11 I was on £25k plus comission (typically £600-800 per quarter) and it's taken me til 2014 to get back to a similar income but working much harder, further away and under much more stress! It's simply not sustainable despite the recent 14% (!) payrise.
I have taken on-board everything mentioned in here, from the sensible to the extreme. I'll be building a home office in the near future (haven't the space yet) so I can open up the opportunity to work from home or out of hours. It was the following which really stuck, despite others having said it more eloquently earlier in the thread this put everything into context :
Bertrum said:
Like others have said you need to change either:- Location, job or both
I'm working on it okgo said:
So as long as advice is in helpful short soundbites, you'll listen to it? 
You were told on page one exactly what that chap said, a year ago.
I know right? It's taken a long time for the penny to drop.You were told on page one exactly what that chap said, a year ago.
However the housing thing has really only been in discussion for the last few pages - it wasn't even a consideration last year when the thread started.
The burden of debt will make a big difference when we move out again. We were repaying £60-100 on cards which were attracting interest - it was 1 step forwards 2 steps back.
Renting allows me to see where I am with money; there will be no surprise bills / repairs (car excluded) so any 'spare' money will be much easier to recognise so we can indulge in the ocasional meal or treat. Hopefully.
I looked into the help to buy scheme and the 'equity loan' scheme (HTB1) doesn't seem like a good deal - you have to choose a new-build property (which are often more expensive to begin with) and after 5 years that bubble bursts and you're paying a mortgage and repaying a loan. It makes sense if your income is high and after that 5 year period the extra payments won't affect you - unfortunately this isn't something I can forecast.
Help to Buy 2 is not an equity loan, instead it's a guarantee for a percentage of your mortgage by the government. A few lenders currently offer this, but the rates don't seem that good. I still need just as higher deposit / equity if I was applying for a 95% LTV mortgage, this just appears to be a scheme for people with particularly bad credit?
Anyway, more of an update on current affairs...
Interview this afternoon. First one in 3 years, bit nervous but not sure why. In the comfortable position of not needing a job which is nice. I stipulated that I wouldn't move for less than £30kpa, which is the maximum they are currently offering (job advertised for 25-30k depending on experience). They still wanted to interview me after acknowledging that.
It's closer to home, but in an industry I'm not familiar with. It's still in construction, but a completely different trade.
On the debt front, the end is in sight. I know this because, after paying off a huge chunk (£1000) at once my bank has immediately raised my credit rating. It's no wonder people end up in over their heads, because my immediate thought was that I could now afford to go out and buy a new family car...but I can't really, since I'd be buying it with borrowed money and be back to square one.
Going to sit tight and save up for the next family car. Whether I'll be able to save enough money before we move out in October / November I'm not sure of...
Help to Buy 2 is not an equity loan, instead it's a guarantee for a percentage of your mortgage by the government. A few lenders currently offer this, but the rates don't seem that good. I still need just as higher deposit / equity if I was applying for a 95% LTV mortgage, this just appears to be a scheme for people with particularly bad credit?
Anyway, more of an update on current affairs...
Interview this afternoon. First one in 3 years, bit nervous but not sure why. In the comfortable position of not needing a job which is nice. I stipulated that I wouldn't move for less than £30kpa, which is the maximum they are currently offering (job advertised for 25-30k depending on experience). They still wanted to interview me after acknowledging that.
It's closer to home, but in an industry I'm not familiar with. It's still in construction, but a completely different trade.
On the debt front, the end is in sight. I know this because, after paying off a huge chunk (£1000) at once my bank has immediately raised my credit rating. It's no wonder people end up in over their heads, because my immediate thought was that I could now afford to go out and buy a new family car...but I can't really, since I'd be buying it with borrowed money and be back to square one.
Going to sit tight and save up for the next family car. Whether I'll be able to save enough money before we move out in October / November I'm not sure of...
Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff