Personal Pensions the next PPI

Personal Pensions the next PPI

Author
Discussion

Kinkell

Original Poster:

537 posts

186 months

Friday 28th March 2014
quotequote all
According to my pension provider I should now be enjoying a comfortable retirement. They reviewed my policy in 1996 and assured me that my fund would be healthy enough for a 2006 retirement when I became 50, should I choose the option.
Something pretty bad must have happened in that 10 year period because I'm still working my arse off to maintain my modest lifestyle. A change of an old policy cost me 20% of value which is daylight robbery.
I look forward to this industry facing the scandal that awaits and being forced to payout as promised.

Old Merc

3,486 posts

166 months

Saturday 29th March 2014
quotequote all
From my recent experience I`ve realized that there must be many people out there who do not realise that they were miss sold various pension plans.I retired in 2009,I just blamed timing,Gordon Brown,life,etc etc that my pension plans (with a major high st bank) were way off target.With the help of my financial adviser I made a complaint about just one aspect of the policy.To my amazement a full scale miss selling case started and the bank admitted IN WRITING "that the product sold was inappropriate" !! I was awarded a massive compensation payment,even my advisor was gobsmacked.
SO,if your not happy with the results,get some advice and make a complaint.Stick with it,they will drag it out,ask a million questions about the plan you took out 25 years ago,just don't give up.You have nothing to loose.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 29th March 2014
quotequote all
Some products were probably mis-sold.

Products were the investment returns did not meet the projections (not expectations) (primarily due to the much lower inflation experienced over the 1990s and 2000s compared to the 1980s when many of these products were originated) were NOT mis-sold.

It won't stop plenty of people claiming that they weren't told x,y or z, in the hope that they can get some money for nothing....
frown

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Sunday 30th March 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Some products were probably mis-sold.

Products were the investment returns did not meet the projections (not expectations) (primarily due to the much lower inflation experienced over the 1990s and 2000s compared to the 1980s when many of these products were originated) were NOT mis-sold.

It won't stop plenty of people claiming that they weren't told x,y or z, in the hope that they can get some money for nothing....
frown
A lot will depend on what the original paperwork promised. Like PPI, it will up to the seller of the policy to PROVE that the policy was not miss sold. Given changes in standards of record keeping and documentation, this will be almost impossible for life companies, banks and IFAs to prove.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 30th March 2014
quotequote all
Helicopter123 said:
A lot will depend on what the original paperwork promised. Like PPI, it will up to the seller of the policy to PROVE that the policy was not miss sold. Given changes in standards of record keeping and documentation, [b]this will be almost impossible for life companies, banks and IFAs to prove.[/ b]
Exactly, and hence they will be forced to pay hundreds of millions of pounds to people who don't deserve it, further discrediting the industry without good reason.
frown

Kinkell

Original Poster:

537 posts

186 months

Friday 4th April 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Helicopter123 said:
A lot will depend on what the original paperwork promised. Like PPI, it will up to the seller of the policy to PROVE that the policy was not miss sold. Given changes in standards of record keeping and documentation, [b]this will be almost impossible for life companies, banks and IFAs to prove.[/ b]
Exactly, and hence they will be forced to pay hundreds of millions of pounds to people who don't deserve it, further discrediting the industry without good reason.
frown
A personal pension statement arrived in the post yesterday stating my fund is less than last year.
I await my well deserved payout a la PPI. You can moan all you like because I have paid in and want paid out as a desservee.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Friday 4th April 2014
quotequote all
Kinkell said:
A personal pension statement arrived in the post yesterday stating my fund is less than last year.
I await my well deserved payout a la PPI. You can moan all you like because I have paid in and want paid out as a desservee.
Unfortunately there will be many people as stupid as this.

Mr Whippy

28,944 posts

240 months

Friday 4th April 2014
quotequote all
Pretty sure there is basic wording in all these things that they are just projections and investments can go up AND down etc etc...

I know people who took endowment mortgages and went away quids in. Others in a mess.

People who saved for retirement and have oodles, then others who don't despite technically saving more etc.


Such is the nature of the chaotic stock market.

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Saturday 5th April 2014
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
Pretty sure there is basic wording in all these things that they are just projections and investments can go up AND down etc etc...

I know people who took endowment mortgages and went away quids in. Others in a mess.

People who saved for retirement and have oodles, then others who don't despite technically saving more etc.


Such is the nature of the chaotic stock market.
The reality today is that your pension provider/investment manager has an obligation to prove that the underlying investment approach has been suitable for your personal requirements. What is more, they have to be able to evidence this beyond reasonable doubt, and evidence that they have taken steps to confirm that the strategy remains suitable as you progress through life. If they cannot do this, and your fund has not performed, than you stand a very good chance of being compensated.

If you "self select" your investment strategy, then you are clearly in your own.

Grandfondo

12,241 posts

205 months

Saturday 5th April 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Helicopter123 said:
A lot will depend on what the original paperwork promised. Like PPI, it will up to the seller of the policy to PROVE that the policy was not miss sold. Given changes in standards of record keeping and documentation, [b]this will be almost impossible for life companies, banks and IFAs to prove.[/ b]
Exactly, and hence they will be forced to pay hundreds of millions of pounds to people who don't deserve it, further discrediting the industry without good reason.
frown
rofl

Are you for real?

Most people in the pension industry could hide behind a corkscrew! wink


Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Saturday 5th April 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
sidicks said:
Helicopter123 said:
A lot will depend on what the original paperwork promised. Like PPI, it will up to the seller of the policy to PROVE that the policy was not miss sold. Given changes in standards of record keeping and documentation, [b]this will be almost impossible for life companies, banks and IFAs to prove.[/ b]
Exactly, and hence they will be forced to pay hundreds of millions of pounds to people who don't deserve it, further discrediting the industry without good reason.
frown
rofl

Are you for real?

Most people in the pension industry could hide behind a corkscrew! wink
Perhaps once, but the world has changed. There are very strict rules in place, that are being applied retrospectively. The FCA and FOS are taking a very strict line with all Financial Services firms in respect of past conduct.

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 5th April 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
rofl

Are you for real?

Most people in the pension industry could hide behind a corkscrew! wink
Spoken by someone that has very little knowledge of the pension industry!

The compensation culture will kick in and plenty of people will claim they were mis-sold and it will be too difficult or expensive for providers to prove otherwise...

Grandfondo

12,241 posts

205 months

Saturday 5th April 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Grandfondo said:
rofl

Are you for real?

Most people in the pension industry could hide behind a corkscrew! wink
Spoken by someone that has very little knowledge of the pension industry!

The compensation culture will kick in and plenty of people will claim they were mis-sold and it will be too difficult or expensive for providers to prove otherwise...
What's there to know apart from the pension industry got very rich at the expense of the punter that was promised the earth!

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Saturday 5th April 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
What's there to know apart from the pension industry got very rich at the expense of the punter that was promised the earth!
Thanks for proving my point...
banghead

Grandfondo

12,241 posts

205 months

Sunday 6th April 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Grandfondo said:
rofl

Are you for real?

Most people in the pension industry could hide behind a corkscrew! wink
Spoken by someone that has very little knowledge of the pension industry!

The compensation culture will kick in and plenty of people will claim they were mis-sold and it will be too difficult or expensive for providers to prove otherwise...
GOOD!

Can't wait. smile

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 6th April 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
GOOD!

Can't wait. smile
I'm afraid that sort of attitude shows exactly what is wrong with this country - people always trying to claim something they don't deserve simply because 'someone else will pay'...
frown

Grandfondo

12,241 posts

205 months

Sunday 6th April 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
Grandfondo said:
GOOD!

Can't wait. smile
I'm afraid that sort of attitude shows exactly what is wrong with this country - people always trying to claim something they don't deserve simply because 'someone else will pay'...
frown
Always the same with the financial industry,they cheat,lie and steal but it's never their fault!

What's wrong with this country is not down to the consumer in this case.

Simpo Two

85,147 posts

264 months

Sunday 6th April 2014
quotequote all
sidicks said:
I'm afraid that sort of attitude shows exactly what is wrong with this country - people always trying to claim something they don't deserve simply because 'someone else will pay'...
frown
Agreed.

Perhaps if when pensions were sold it said 'Warning: You may get back less than you pay in' - as opposed to 'You will live happily ever after if you sign here' nobody would have grounds to feel aggrieved.

I have a typed letter confirming that my endowment mortgage WILL pay off my mortgage AND give me a return on top. But being dated 1987 they got away with it. Muggins had to make up the difference.

It's about expectations. If I promise someone 500 wedding photos and only provide 400, they quite rightly have gorunds for complaint. If I had said 'Well you might get 500 but frankly I have no idea and don't be surprised if you only get 400' then I'm in the clear. But I might have lost the sale.

Yes, we all know the markets go up and down and nobody can predict yada - but certain expectations especially over pensions were/are made I think. I have felt for 2-3 years now that pensions are overrated (for the self-employed at least) and the more time that goes past, the more sure I am. Oh and I did foresee the credit crunch of 2008, but my IFA dismissed it. After all what do I know?

I don't know, I just sense. And I am learning to stop taking 'advice' smile

Ginge R

4,761 posts

218 months

Sunday 6th April 2014
quotequote all
Fondo,

We have seen a filtering out of many churn and burn advisers, but these days, financial advising tests the skills of many credible professionals i more than 'just' 12 month returns.

There is good and bad in every sector. 15-20 years ago, the financial services sector WAS mainly about selling products, but that doesn't mean that if a product was sold, and if it hasn't done well, it isn't automatically miss sold.

Until recently, I accept, if you received an annual meeting, and if you weren't simply flogged more insurance to cover an increased wage or growing family, you were lucky.

But there are many advisers who practice diligently and with a good conscience - I would suggest they are not in the minority too. I am about to stop for F1, but the past few weeks has been taken up coping with the end of the tax year, and starting next week, many of us will be meeting with clients to discuss the budget and its implications.

Simpo,

We've spoken about this - but the world has moved on.

I take completely your points about the merits of a pension for the self employed, but the only thing that gave the pension wrapper any ultimate sense of credibility was the GAD rule. Most people had an issue with pensions *because* of precisely that - ie; what was the best or most efficient rate of extraction? It was usually at odds with what the client wanted!

Now though, since the budget, the pension has become nothing more than part of a client's overall tax strategy. Traditional yield calculations are pretty meaningless when your pension no longer has to even providing you with whole of life benefits. In other words, when do you stop investing for growth and start an income strategy?

I was sold two endowments which suggested growth of 14%, I keep them on my wall to remind me how far the industry has come on - I took the shark at his word, I knew no better. But the industry has moved on and I'm quietly pleased at the level of dedication that most clients can receive from most modern and forward thinking advisers.

Watch out for the next stage though, the super quango, the Retirement Guidance Agency.. then we're in trouble!

sidicks

25,218 posts

220 months

Sunday 6th April 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
Always the same with the financial industry,they cheat,lie and steal but it's never their fault!
Given that 'ignorance is bliss', you must be very content!

Anyone that's cheated or stolen anything should be dealt with appropriately. To make generalisations about 'the financial industry' (when it's only the advisors that have done any mis-selling, and even then only a small proportion of those advisors) just shows that you haven't a clue.

Grandfondo said:
What's wrong with this country is not down to the consumer in this case.
The compensation culture is one very good example.

Just because a product hasn't performed as well as expected / anticipated does not mean it was mis-sold. Yet you seem to be happy that people who were NOT mis-sold will likely be able to claim compensation as it will be too difficult or expensive for the provider to prove otherwise.
frown