Life cover, critical illness cover and income protection...

Life cover, critical illness cover and income protection...

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kmpowell

Original Poster:

2,924 posts

228 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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As first time-buyers we're about to exchange on our first 'family' home for ourselves and our 9mth old son. As part of the buying process we've sensibly been advised by our mortgage broker to consider Life cover, critical illness and income protection.

Life cover is a no brainer, however I do have a couple of questions:

1. Is critical illness cover recommended, or are there so many exclusions to the policies it's nigh on impossible to get a good level of cover?
2. I'm not sure I quite yet have a firm grasp on all the pros and cos of decreasing v level term. what's the most common. It seems level term is most sensible?
3. I've been offered a decreased level of payout for the critical illness (e.g. Life covers entire mortgage, critical is roughly a 1/3 or mortgage value). This cuts the premium down considerably, but given I don't know how much these critical illness items cost, I wouldn't know if I needed £100k, £200k or even more for my critical illness cover.
4. Any particular providers to avoid, or indeed you recommend?

My gut feeling at the moment is telling me to get 2x level term policies, but with a reduced critical illness cover. But given I'm totally new to this, any help or pointers would be much appreciated as I'm going to be having to make a decision in the next few days.

TIA

dalenorth

822 posts

167 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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Friends life are always my preferred provider.

Pm me if you want any specific advice, as we specialise in financial protection.

Dale

insurance_jon

4,055 posts

246 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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I was just about to recommend dale, but he got here first. I let him sort all mine, and my clients, protection needs.

big thumbs up from me

Ginge R

4,761 posts

219 months

Thursday 31st July 2014
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OP,

Bear in mind that decreasing cover might be cheaper but you may decide in a few years to buy a larger home. When/if you do, the mortgage is larger, you're older (new cover more expensive), you're earning more, smoking and drinking more, had a minor op for so something so the stakes are higher, you have more kids, you might be seperated and starting out all again (sorry!).. but you get the picture. Decreasing cover might be a false economy.

Consider Family Income Benefit (FIB) as well, and be flexible. To give you an idea, I placed some business tonight for a married couple for 25 years - early 30s, one child and the likelihood of a larger mortgage in a couple of years. She had 100k life cover, 75k CIC/SIC, 1k per month FIB, private school boarding insurance cover.. he had 600k life over, 1.5k per month FIB, IncomeProtection and 150k SIC/CIC. Both came with 25k CIC/SIC (free) cover for their baby. If baby is poorly, it gives you the option of waving a cheque and nailing treatment asap if you din't want the NHS.

Don't forget to get your policies written into trust, it should be the default starting point for every policy at outset.

kmpowell

Original Poster:

2,924 posts

228 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Ginge R said:
OP,

Bear in mind that decreasing cover might be cheaper but you may decide in a few years to buy a larger home. When/if you do, the mortgage is larger, you're older (new cover more expensive), you're earning more, smoking and drinking more, had a minor op for so something so the stakes are higher, you have more kids, you might be seperated and starting out all again (sorry!).. but you get the picture. Decreasing cover might be a false economy.

Consider Family Income Benefit (FIB) as well, and be flexible. To give you an idea, I placed some business tonight for a married couple for 25 years - early 30s, one child and the likelihood of a larger mortgage in a couple of years. She had 100k life cover, 75k CIC/SIC, 1k per month FIB, private school boarding insurance cover.. he had 600k life over, 1.5k per month FIB, IncomeProtection and 150k SIC/CIC. Both came with 25k CIC/SIC (free) cover for their baby. If baby is poorly, it gives you the option of waving a cheque and nailing treatment asap if you din't want the NHS.

Don't forget to get your policies written into trust, it should be the default starting point for every policy at outset.
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. To give you a bit more context, I'm 37 and my partner is 33, so this house purchase is later than you would normally expect for 'first time buyers'. We're also both quite far on in our careers, so our incomes are likely to remain unchanged significantly for a few years (Combined income is now in excess of £150k). The house we're buying is in London (mortgage is well within our means), and we've both said that our next house purchase will be back in one of our respective hometowns, meaning we can get a lot more for less/same, so with that in mind it's unlikely (touch wood!) we'll need more/extra mortgage.

Does knowing any of this change/clarify anything for your advice? smile

Thanks again

Ginge R

4,761 posts

219 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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I've just copied and pasted this from something I wrote 4 weeks ago. The principles won't change much, but think how you or your partner might like the cash delivered (ie a lump sum or income) and think about what might happen if you die together.

If your combined income is 150k, the realistically, replacing 20-25 years lost income and realising your estate is going to produce a chunk of cash that's going to place you firmly in the realms of Inheritance Tax (IHT) If you both died together and if you left a surviving dependent. So, IHT consideration right now is vital.

Think about life not only now, but in 5/10/15 years - will your partner want to slow down (will you?) and will the need for income be greater or less if you subsequently have a bigger family? Anyway, have a read of this which I wrote on I July..

<<8Ace,

Insurance should only be written if there is an exposure to a financial need being replaced. Examples of this may be, as you say, looking after a surviving partner, having dependent children or a mortgage. Once that commitment is removed, IN PRINCIPLE, there is no need to have such an obligation. It can also hedge against Inheritance Tax, etc.

If you assume that it costs about £150k to raise a child to the age of 18 (not double that for two) then multiply the years to go, by the number of kids. If you want to add Tertiary education then include that. Sorry for the Mail link..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396843/Th...

Invested is ‘safer’ funds due to the gravity of the demands placed on it (only being required to earn a leisurely 3% or so after costs) and for 20 years, and used to replace lost main breadwinner’s lost income, a smaller amount (linked to inflation) can be used to generate income by taking the growth and by slowly bleeding off the capital. In an ideal world, you should have nothing left when the need has gone (look on it as walking out of the door backwards).

Once you’re dead, for you the war is over. But there is still Council Tax to pay and you still need feeding if you have a serious injury or illness. Critical Illness Cover pays out a tax free lump sum that pays out in the event that you suffer a serious illness or injury. It is paid out regardless of whether you have to stop work or not. The aim of it is not to provide a financial windfall for the individual or any dependants but to ensure that any lifestyle change that is needed becomes affordable.

It is my personal view that (**in an ideal world**) the amount of critical illness cover that should be held by the client should be an amount equal to five times the net annual salary/income of the individual. Sometimes, more often than not, that has to give a little due to the nature of the real world and other demands.

If the client is a (non-earning) financial dependent, the level of cover to be recommended, should be equal to three times the income of the individual who is the earner; this is intended to replace any lost income of you, if you’re the main earner, resulting from any change in your employment resulting from reduced hours worked in order to care for, for instance, your partner who may not be a tax payer but who may look after the family home.

Life cover may be bought on price (by default, get it written into a trust) but Critical Illness is driven by features which may only be separated by pennies each month or a few quid. The goal posts are always moving - it's a consumer driven market and sales pressures apply - if you had a CIC policy a few years ago, it might be worth rebroking – costs are competitive (which might outweigh your circumstances) and features have really improved.

I had a sales e-mail the other day, which I reproduce below NOT as an inducement but to give you an idea about what you may want to look for when working out a suitable CIC and/or insurance provider:

<Aviva have removed the severity requirement for Heart Attack and will now pay out for any clinically diagnosed Heart Attack, this move has also been made by Ageas, Friends Life, LV and Scot Prov. The others haven’t categorically said they will pay out on all clinically diagnosed Heart Attacks but their definitions are near on identical to ours and I believe they will pay out. Aegon, Bright Grey, L&G, Skandia and Zurich still have a minimum Troponin level on their definition so leaves a question mark over payment for more minor heart attacks.

Aviva will pay out for a Stroke as long as there is definite diagnosis of a stroke with new neurological symptoms which remain present for at least 24 hours, we have taken away the need for Permanent Neurological Deficit. Ageas, Friends Life and LV also have the same definition. Aegon, Bright Grey, L&G, Scot Prov, Skandia and Zurich have all gone beyond the ABI standard definition however still require permanent neurological deficit.

Aviva pay out on diagnosis of MS, L&G also pay out on diagnosis. LV and Friends Life will pay out after 3 months of continual symptoms, they will pay out earlier if there are two attacks within the 3 month period. Aegon, Ageas, Bright Grey, Scot Prov and Skandia all require 3 months continual symptoms for pay out (this is ahead of the ABI standard definition) Zurich require 6 months continual symptoms, this is the ABI standard definition.>

Sorry for the wrist slashing response. Good luck and always take regulated advice that suits your specific needs and that you trust.>>


Ginge R

4,761 posts

219 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Also, this is another post I wrote from July (pinch punch!) which might be useful.

<<Re Steve - agreed, Family Income Benefit is much overlooked. Also, review your Guaranteed Insurability - a clause in an insurance contract which lets you increase level of cover without providing further medical evidence. I have pasted a generic summary from a couple of providers.

http://www.legalandgeneral.com/advisercentre/prote...

http://www.pruadviser.co.uk/content/nav/about/2667...

Many people I speak with have this and don't know it so if your circumstances have recently changed (just married/partnered/bigger family/more expensive home or mortgage etc) then start looking at your policy terms and conditions. If you're buying cover and think it might be a good idea, ask if your intended policy has this feature and if you don't need bigger cover in the future, just check you're not paying extra you don't want it.

Always though, if you have just had a child or have inbound, and already have an insurance policy gathering dust in a drawer somewhere, check your policy. This sort of feature is potentially gold dust if you bought cover very young but have waited quite a while before starting a family or have started a second one long after the first has grown up, possibly by a second relationship.

And don't forget to take into account any occupational death in service benefits. You lose them if you move or finish working, but are those benefits relevant?>>

Jockman

17,917 posts

160 months

Friday 1st August 2014
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Ginge R said:
Also, review your Guaranteed Insurability - a clause in an insurance contract which lets you increase level of cover without providing further medical evidence.
Good advice - as ever - from Ginge.

Get a level term policy with good GIOs that allow you to increase at pertinent points - baby birth, adoption, increased mortgage, coming out of the closet, etc.

Ok, so I made that last one up.

Life Cover should be your priority, the rest is just noise and it's really down to a best guess on your future health. You should be asking your Employer if they run a Life Cover scheme of sorts (usually 3x salary). There is no BIK on this as you personally will never benefit from a claim. smile

garreth64

663 posts

221 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I have been reviewing my existing financial arrangements and I have a current Critical Illness policy that I have been paying into for some years, that I do not think is good value, so want to look at alternative cover.

There is already some good advice on this and other threads, but am looking for any more up to date info.

The policy was taken out in 2006 via an IFA as a reducing policy to cover a mortgage, with an end date of June 2022.

I currently pay £60.89 per month for the following:
Terminal Illness Cover
Major Surgery Cover
Children' s Cover - we don't have children!
Accident hospitalisation cover
Total and Permanent Disability cover
Payment Protection cover

There are currently 7 years left on the mortgage, though it is likely it will be paid off in 5 years or less. The outstanding amount is just over £60k.

The cover is only for myself, and it is unlikely that we will take out another mortgage when this is paid off.

Therefore I only need decreasing cover for £60k over 7 years, and it seems I can get this much cheaper else where, though all the quotes I am getting include life insurance, which I don't need as I get this with my employment.

Is it still possible to buy CIC separately?

My policy was taken out with AXA, but has now transferred to Friends Life.

I understand it is all about the quality of the cover, not the premium, but would be interested to know who are the better players in this area.


Sarnie

8,041 posts

209 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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garreth64 said:
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I have been reviewing my existing financial arrangements and I have a current Critical Illness policy that I have been paying into for some years, that I do not think is good value, so want to look at alternative cover.

There is already some good advice on this and other threads, but am looking for any more up to date info.

The policy was taken out in 2006 via an IFA as a reducing policy to cover a mortgage, with an end date of June 2022.

I currently pay £60.89 per month for the following:
Terminal Illness Cover
Major Surgery Cover
Children' s Cover - we don't have children!
Accident hospitalisation cover
Total and Permanent Disability cover
Payment Protection cover

There are currently 7 years left on the mortgage, though it is likely it will be paid off in 5 years or less. The outstanding amount is just over £60k.

The cover is only for myself, and it is unlikely that we will take out another mortgage when this is paid off.

Therefore I only need decreasing cover for £60k over 7 years, and it seems I can get this much cheaper else where, though all the quotes I am getting include life insurance, which I don't need as I get this with my employment.

Is it still possible to buy CIC separately?

My policy was taken out with AXA, but has now transferred to Friends Life.

I understand it is all about the quality of the cover, not the premium, but would be interested to know who are the better players in this area.
The serious illness cover offered by VitaliltyLife (Underwritten by Pru) is way ahead of all other Critical/Serious illness offerings from others providers. It's where all of business goes where the quality of the cover is the main driver over the lowest premium, which should always be the case, but especially so when the premiums are significant, which yours is.

https://www.pruprotect.co.uk/personal-protection/s...

Feel free to drop me a line if you need any help smile

Ginge R

4,761 posts

219 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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Agree with Sarnie. Vitality offers great CI/SI cover, especially for women and those who hit the gym often. It's a little more pricy, but if you go for the comprehensive option, worth it. You buy CI on features, life cover on price.

As mentioned by me back in 2014, and evolved by them since, if family cardiac issues present significance in underwriting though, Aviva gets a highly, highly sympathetic look at (and quite a fair chunk of business). The (stand by!) Association of British Insurers decreed a year or so back that in the event of a coronary 'incident', there must be a characteristic rise of cardiac enzymes or Troponins recorded, before a claim could be made, along with evidence which must show a definite acute myocardial infarction.

Aviva already had a great proposition, but it enhanced its heart attack definition, it now pays out on the diagnosis of a heart attack, regardless of severity. This removes the awful requirement for customers to ring a bell/tick a box, reach a specified troponin level in order for a claim to be paid. Aviva, awful admin service for advisers though (imho). Below, a quick aide memoire for Aviva's approach to ABI definitions. Loads out there to choose from, no one client is the same - suitable protection is the foundation for financial planning.


dalenorth

822 posts

167 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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Sorry guys, I've got to disagree with you on this one. Vitality is a poor product when compared with true critical illness cover. The major issue being the severity of illness you would need to be at to qualify for a sizeable payment on the top 4 claim areas. AIG or Friends Life would be far more effective in my opinion.

Ginge R

4,761 posts

219 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
quotequote all
In its 'primary' guise, yes and agreed - not great value. But at 'comprehensive' level, with the option of keeping it going in the event of a claim, it's a nice contract for the right person. As we know, what's right girl client 'A' might not be right for client 'B'.

Incidentally, Vitality cut me some real flexibility on underwriting last week, with two clients with *highly* specific aviation needs. Great service.

insurance_jon

4,055 posts

246 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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Well all I can say is I trust dale's advice, on my own life and CI cover, and he handles all our clients too.

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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I scrapped our critical illness cover £250k to cut costs, thinking it will never happen, now have life cover for £150k (with 1 year terminal cover 'thrown in). Wife got bad cancer few years ago, now expanded greatly to the stage now lucky to get out of bed an hr a day, back at Christies 2-3 days next week, she may see year out but unlikely, nothing paid out yet.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU DO from experience

CorbynForTheBin

12,230 posts

194 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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Sad to hear that.

My family have always lived by the thing of 'insure for disaster' which has also resulted in a hefty motor insurance excess screwing me over in the past.

However, we have CI and life cover through the multicoloured umbrella people (cant remember the name) and matching value CI and life cover through my work (as I get ~£250k of cover for £3/mth!).

The rather poor joke is that if either of us goes under a bus, the other gets a Ferrari!