Splitting up with girlfriend in a joint owned mortgage...
Discussion
smithyithy said:
So as soon as they sign the dotted line, the bloke is essentially giving her half of his £30k?
f
k ever getting married.
Ha!f
k ever getting married.When you buy a property together, you are both 100% jointly liable and severable
If the GF moved out and the BF offered the mortgage company his 'half' of the monthly payments; no change! You would need to pay the full monthly payment.
If she complained that missed mortgage payment weren't her fault as she didn't live there any more; no change!
You BOTH commit to the purchase.
When you buy with another, on completion you own the property 100% minus whatever mortgage you have. Whatever is left after the mortgage is redeemed is 50/50 between the owners, unless you have a drawn up signed agreement to say otherwise.
Morally, most people would say "that money came from your Dad/Cousin, you take that back and we'll just split any increase in value and anything purchased together for the property....."
Sarnie said:
Ha!
When you buy a property together, you are both 100% jointly liable and severable
If the GF moved out and the BF offered the mortgage company his 'half' of the monthly payments; no change! You would need to pay the full monthly payment.
If she complained that missed mortgage payment weren't her fault as she didn't live there any more; no change!
You BOTH commit to the purchase.
When you buy with another, on completion you own the property 100% minus whatever mortgage you have. Whatever is left after the mortgage is redeemed is 50/50 between the owners, unless you have a drawn up signed agreement to say otherwise.
Morally, most people would say "that money came from your Dad/Cousin, you take that back and we'll just split any increase in value and anything purchased together for the property....."
That's what he's banking on at the moment When you buy a property together, you are both 100% jointly liable and severable
If the GF moved out and the BF offered the mortgage company his 'half' of the monthly payments; no change! You would need to pay the full monthly payment.
If she complained that missed mortgage payment weren't her fault as she didn't live there any more; no change!
You BOTH commit to the purchase.
When you buy with another, on completion you own the property 100% minus whatever mortgage you have. Whatever is left after the mortgage is redeemed is 50/50 between the owners, unless you have a drawn up signed agreement to say otherwise.
Morally, most people would say "that money came from your Dad/Cousin, you take that back and we'll just split any increase in value and anything purchased together for the property....."
OP feel for you.
Even though the money was gifted to you - you elected to spend it accordingly so unless this gift from cousin and father have put legal charges on the property its going to be tricky (your father and cousin could attempt to do that now ?)
Also as others have pointed out your were able to but it jointly based on 2x incomes. You clearly secured this pre March 2014 its very possibly that you will have to sell unless you can either secure higher salary or put in more equity.
When you bought the house did you buy it jointly or as Tennants in common (the latter is the smart way and you legally state x% owned by each - I have this on our properties it makes sense from a split situation but also is key for Inheritance tax).
Also when you took on the mortgage you both have signed up to paying the mortgage so she could elect to pay nothing leaving you to stump up or vice versa - though they will repossess the house in due course.
On the face of it I'd say she is entitled to 50% of any gain in value from the price on the lang registry to now so will demand that payment. Smart move is tell your dad and cousin ASAP maybe they can put legal charges onto the property - maybe your GF is naive enough not to realise what all that means when certain documents come though.... Unlikely but you never know. Talk to her cards on the table - unless you did the naughty where she'd want to punish you in the pocket you may find it a sensible exit
Even though the money was gifted to you - you elected to spend it accordingly so unless this gift from cousin and father have put legal charges on the property its going to be tricky (your father and cousin could attempt to do that now ?)
Also as others have pointed out your were able to but it jointly based on 2x incomes. You clearly secured this pre March 2014 its very possibly that you will have to sell unless you can either secure higher salary or put in more equity.
When you bought the house did you buy it jointly or as Tennants in common (the latter is the smart way and you legally state x% owned by each - I have this on our properties it makes sense from a split situation but also is key for Inheritance tax).
Also when you took on the mortgage you both have signed up to paying the mortgage so she could elect to pay nothing leaving you to stump up or vice versa - though they will repossess the house in due course.
On the face of it I'd say she is entitled to 50% of any gain in value from the price on the lang registry to now so will demand that payment. Smart move is tell your dad and cousin ASAP maybe they can put legal charges onto the property - maybe your GF is naive enough not to realise what all that means when certain documents come though.... Unlikely but you never know. Talk to her cards on the table - unless you did the naughty where she'd want to punish you in the pocket you may find it a sensible exit
Thanks for such an informative reply. She's very naive, me and my father had to repaint something in the property yesterday so we spoke a lot about it. She is far too young and naive to even have a mortgage which i realise now... and i don't understand the legal charge bit so i know she won't.
Welshbeef said:
OP feel for you.
Even though the money was gifted to you - you elected to spend it accordingly so unless this gift from cousin and father have put legal charges on the property its going to be tricky (your father and cousin could attempt to do that now ?)
Also as others have pointed out your were able to but it jointly based on 2x incomes. You clearly secured this pre March 2014 its very possibly that you will have to sell unless you can either secure higher salary or put in more equity.
Would this make a difference if she moved out? Since we moved in i'm on around £4k a year more... But will my salary be re-assessed once i already have the mortgage??
When you bought the house did you buy it jointly or as Tennants in common (the latter is the smart way and you legally state x% owned by each - I have this on our properties it makes sense from a split situation but also is key for Inheritance tax).
Jointly. It's a joint mortgage. I guess when buying your first property with someone you love, i didn't tend to think of when it goes tits up..
Also when you took on the mortgage you both have signed up to paying the mortgage so she could elect to pay nothing leaving you to stump up or vice versa - though they will repossess the house in due course.
This shouldn't happen. If she pays nothing i can still afford to pay the full mortgage amount.. If i'm being honest, all bills come out the start of the month and i get paid the end of each month. So my contribution to the joint account pays for ALL bills, then the money she puts in covers food. She usually pays her £110-£160 in each Friday when she gets paid
On the face of it I'd say she is entitled to 50% of any gain in value from the price on the lang registry to now so will demand that payment. Smart move is tell your dad and cousin ASAP maybe they can put legal charges onto the property - maybe your GF is naive enough not to realise what all that means when certain documents come though.... Unlikely but you never know. Talk to her cards on the table - unless you did the naughty where she'd want to punish you in the pocket you may find it a sensible exit
[b] I didn't do anything wrong, i know every argument has two sides and i'm not going into detail, but i've done nothing wrong..
The property would have £0 gain in value i'd massively assume. At the time my cousin had trouble to sell it and it was on the market for a long time. My best guess is that would happen again if we had to sell it, which puts me in a good position i suppose:
Option 1:
She can either walk away with £0 and call it a day.
If not, then...
Option 2:
She can walk away with her £600 she's paid
Or if she wants the full 50% of everything and be a complete imoral c-spanner...
Option 3:
We put the house on the market, neither of us live here and cancel any luxury bills we have, Sky etc. Then whatever bills are left we pay exactly 50% towards. Which she will struggle to pay unless her family help her... Then we go legal route and i remember how much solicitors cost when we moved in, so i can only assume that getting someone to do all the legal paperwork wont leave us with much at the end of everything [/b]
Even though the money was gifted to you - you elected to spend it accordingly so unless this gift from cousin and father have put legal charges on the property its going to be tricky (your father and cousin could attempt to do that now ?)
Also as others have pointed out your were able to but it jointly based on 2x incomes. You clearly secured this pre March 2014 its very possibly that you will have to sell unless you can either secure higher salary or put in more equity.
Would this make a difference if she moved out? Since we moved in i'm on around £4k a year more... But will my salary be re-assessed once i already have the mortgage??
When you bought the house did you buy it jointly or as Tennants in common (the latter is the smart way and you legally state x% owned by each - I have this on our properties it makes sense from a split situation but also is key for Inheritance tax).
Jointly. It's a joint mortgage. I guess when buying your first property with someone you love, i didn't tend to think of when it goes tits up..
Also when you took on the mortgage you both have signed up to paying the mortgage so she could elect to pay nothing leaving you to stump up or vice versa - though they will repossess the house in due course.
This shouldn't happen. If she pays nothing i can still afford to pay the full mortgage amount.. If i'm being honest, all bills come out the start of the month and i get paid the end of each month. So my contribution to the joint account pays for ALL bills, then the money she puts in covers food. She usually pays her £110-£160 in each Friday when she gets paid
On the face of it I'd say she is entitled to 50% of any gain in value from the price on the lang registry to now so will demand that payment. Smart move is tell your dad and cousin ASAP maybe they can put legal charges onto the property - maybe your GF is naive enough not to realise what all that means when certain documents come though.... Unlikely but you never know. Talk to her cards on the table - unless you did the naughty where she'd want to punish you in the pocket you may find it a sensible exit
[b] I didn't do anything wrong, i know every argument has two sides and i'm not going into detail, but i've done nothing wrong..
The property would have £0 gain in value i'd massively assume. At the time my cousin had trouble to sell it and it was on the market for a long time. My best guess is that would happen again if we had to sell it, which puts me in a good position i suppose:
Option 1:
She can either walk away with £0 and call it a day.
If not, then...
Option 2:
She can walk away with her £600 she's paid
Or if she wants the full 50% of everything and be a complete imoral c-spanner...
Option 3:
We put the house on the market, neither of us live here and cancel any luxury bills we have, Sky etc. Then whatever bills are left we pay exactly 50% towards. Which she will struggle to pay unless her family help her... Then we go legal route and i remember how much solicitors cost when we moved in, so i can only assume that getting someone to do all the legal paperwork wont leave us with much at the end of everything [/b]
Without wishing to sound unduly negative there might not be any equity to share out by the time this plays out.
Let's say that you cannot agree an exit, one party leaves the property and the other remains but doesn't want to pay more than 'their share' of the mortgage.
Property is put up for sale, neither can agree on how to split the equity, sale falls through.
Mortgage now in arrears and lender starts possession.
Someone gets angry and causes damage to property.
No-one does any maintenance.
Repossessed and sold at a loss.
New conflict starts around who is responsible for the shortfall.
Professional not personal experience thankfully.
Let's say that you cannot agree an exit, one party leaves the property and the other remains but doesn't want to pay more than 'their share' of the mortgage.
Property is put up for sale, neither can agree on how to split the equity, sale falls through.
Mortgage now in arrears and lender starts possession.
Someone gets angry and causes damage to property.
No-one does any maintenance.
Repossessed and sold at a loss.
New conflict starts around who is responsible for the shortfall.
Professional not personal experience thankfully.
The solicitor you used would have asked you/both of you do you want a joint ownership or Tennants in common. You may have signed Tennants in common without realising though then it would clearly be 50:50 (unless she made the change in which case it could be 90:10 to her or any % split
Du1point8 said:
If she is going for the money that was gifted, can the 2 people who gifted it put a charge on the property for the 'gift', so that the equity is given back to those people?
I doubt it - it was gifted and then that individual elected to spend the gift on whatever turns out to be deposit but being silly it could have been a few years worth of grocery what then?Previously if it was a loan then you could but now by having a formal loan the mortgage companies will take that into account OR put the father and cousin onto the deeds as 10% or whatever % owners
Du1point8 said:
If she is going for the money that was gifted, can the 2 people who gifted it put a charge on the property for the 'gift', so that the equity is given back to those people?
To get a second charge won't they need the permission of the mortgage co?If so that would contradict the original application.
desolate said:
Du1point8 said:
If she is going for the money that was gifted, can the 2 people who gifted it put a charge on the property for the 'gift', so that the equity is given back to those people?
To get a second charge won't they need the permission of the mortgage co?If so that would contradict the original application.
Just to clarify.
It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
jamesu said:
Just to clarify.
It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
Based on what you have said I wouldn't be calling the mortgage advisors just yet. It all sounds slightly murky and whilst I am sure it happens all the time when you put it in black and white it reads a bit like a small time fraud on the mortgage co.It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
Really, this looks like a cock up from beginning to end and although we don't know the full SP I would think the cheapest and easiest way out of this would be to agree something with departing GF (even if it feels unfair) get it drawn up in a simple document by a lawyer then pay up and move on.
desolate said:
jamesu said:
Just to clarify.
It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
Based on what you have said I wouldn't be calling the mortgage advisors just yet. It all sounds slightly murky and whilst I am sure it happens all the time when you put it in black and white it reads a bit like a small time fraud on the mortgage co.It was above the law, but a bit of a grey area from what the solicitor and mortgage advisor told me.
Me and my ex-partner knew i had to pay my father the £5k back at some point (first year in the property has been a bit tight), the solicitor and the mortgage advisor both knew this too, but it had to be put down as a "gift" and not a loan as it's not allowed to have a loan for a deposit, regardless of where it has come from.
Same with the £6k reduction from my cousin, we both knew this was just a reduction of the price she was selling, but the sale still went through at the full price and she wrote down it was gifted.
I was going to invite her round with a family member both here later today, but i'm beginning to think i'm better calling my mortgage advisors first thing tomorrow and then taking it from there?
Really, this looks like a cock up from beginning to end and although we don't know the full SP I would think the cheapest and easiest way out of this would be to agree something with departing GF (even if it feels unfair) get it drawn up in a simple document by a lawyer then pay up and move on.
desolate said:
Du1point8 said:
I would sit the departing GF in the same room as the 2 people who gifted the money and let the Ex explain that she is taking their money and allow them to rip her a new one.
Which would be emotionally satisfying and therefore worth a go at least.They could go for the charge - heck you could try to put a charge on any property but it has to go through the system and may not be held up or it might. Clearly the mortgage co has first charge on the property so if sold and all that it was sold for was the mortgage balance hard luck to the 2nd + charges.
The crux is the money "gift" was purely that a gift to you - you elected to use that as a deposit and have nothing in writing to say otherwise.
I've a couple of friends who have gone through divorces one who kept naively thinking she's never going to be a b
h instead a nice split... He ended up losing his house to her, paying her spousal maintenance until retirement & thereafter a pension (she point blank refused the clean break), she in the last few weeks while together and still in bliss - split 7 weeks after the wedding - she made him take on full parental responsibility for her two kids from previous dads who are on welfare .... Um she also tried to get a % on her still living grandmas will!! To which they changed it and have written him out of the will,
This chap is smart too and earns a decent £75kish salary however he literally lives from hand to mouth and unless he simply leaves the UK for good and cuts off his ties to his child - yes she got pregnant in those 7 weeks following the wedding even though protection was used..
Food for thought things can go very wrong
smithyithy said:
So as soon as they sign the dotted line, the bloke is essentially giving her half of his £30k?
fk ever getting married.
I think of it the other way; you're crazy to commit to something as big as a house with someone without the legal status and framework of marriage. That goes double if you're not chipping in equally for everything.f
k ever getting married.PurpleMoonlight said:
jamesu said:
She's very naive
Apparently not.She lets you pay for everything then wants half ....
Fairness sadly these days doesn't come into it look after number 1 first - or actually you're kids interests first.
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